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Post by snoggle on Oct 28, 2015 6:51:09 GMT
Passengers in Romford are friendly indeed, a 499 passenger offered the driver some of what she had brought in the shop! Yep I saw something similar on my recent Havering wanderings. Last time I saw that sort of thing was "up North" where folk are reet friendly.  |
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Post by VPL630 on Oct 28, 2015 10:55:30 GMT
Hello 10301! Glad of the recent updates, and also glad to see you're doing well. Some work at NS sounds good!  Was in the area myself the other day, I got engaged while on holiday recently, and my other half and I are looking to move into our own home next year. The significance of this being that I was interested to see what various areas of East London were like for perspective viewings. So off I went on the tube to Elm Park, then 365, then the 294 and TfL Rail back to Stratford.....(only two buses - not worth me putting in the bus ride thread  ) It certainly is an interesting part of the world, NS seems to have the friendliest passengers I have seen! Many on the 294 (both young and old) shouting "Thank you driver" as they got off, something you don't really see on the PD or WH routes (which I frequent). Was an interesting outing, lots of TA's and I can see why the 294 has the short TA's.....that corner on Dagnam/Whitchurch is a bit tight. I think it has been posted elsewhere that the NS routes seem a bit more down to earth than other areas, with friendly passengers and drivers allowing people on while at a stand. Is the wait still about three years or so to get there? Can you go on the waiting list for multiple garages? Was thinking, would going to RM in the short term (while still having a place on the NS list) be something you could do? I read you like Scanias and there's lots of them on the 365/248. The one I rode on whilst riding the 365 (15004) was a different experience to the PD ones I'm used to. The seats were much more padded and the suspension seemed a lot nicer. It even looked different from the outside, seemed more 'silvery' - if you see what I mean.  A quick question about the duty cards, are the timing points/abbreviations you would see on the TfL schedules (working timetables via Timetable Graveyard) the ones you would also see on the duty card too? It seems to match up, the PD cards seem to have enough columns to match the ones on the net. I'm still waiting with baited breath for the schedules to come live on the TfL site, but they are taking ages..... Cheers now, and happy driving! Yes, people in Romford are much nicer towards drivers and public transport, ok there are a few bad ones but then there is always going to be, the routes are nicer, calmer and some are more fun to drive, I've done that turn you are talking about 4 times in training, it's not as tight as it looks, There are much tighter turns in the Harold wood area that aren't served by buses that a few trainers go for a but of fun  The NS's routes are down to earth a bit like the 275 and the 179 which is why I like them, there are times when I let passengers on when on stand but there are other times when I just want 5 mins to myself, the argument for most people is if anything hits the bus and someone get's injured/hurt, why were they on the bus while it was on stand etc... Realistically from the drivers that have just gone there about 6 months but I have to wait until my probation is up first before I can apply, but I kinda like Leyton, great group of people and some decent buses at the moment, I also want to drive an LT, despite the fact I'm not the biggest fan of them. as far as I know I can only apply to one garage and it would be NS without a doubt, I don't really like RM's routes other than the 372, as much as I like the driving the scania's they really vary in performance unbelievably between each bus so I only really like driving a good one, I know what you mean, they have had a lot of work done at refurb Yes the duty cards have the same abbreviations scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/t31.0-8/11934493_10203633345508952_4586933639229231453_o.jpg typical 48 job I think the delay in putting them live is then other operators will know how others are running a route and this could possible give them an unfair advantage as they have the duty numbers on the side and it shows all light running, I don't know if this is why but I'm guessing this has something to do with it. Thanks, happy driving but I'm on a 56 tonight  really not a fan of this route, trying to run a 6 min headway on a route with live changeovers It would work if everyone just maintained headway... |
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Post by Paul on Oct 28, 2015 10:56:20 GMT
Passengers in Romford are friendly indeed, a 499 passenger offered the driver some of what she had brought in the shop! Yep I saw something similar on my recent Havering wanderings. Last time I saw that sort of thing was "up North" where folk are reet friendly. A lot of passengers on the R7 get the bus into Petts Wood from either end and then get the bus back the next time by. Quite often during warm weather I get these passengers asking if I want a bottle of water while they are at the shop. It's unnecessary for me since I take a big bottle of water to work with me anyway but I'm always very touched by the gesture. It's just another reason I like working these routes |
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Post by Paul on Oct 28, 2015 11:04:56 GMT
Since you're a new driver - albeit one with years of enthusiast experience! - how easy do you find it to read those duty cards? Have you seen the new style duty cards the company are planning to introduce? Personally I don't like them. The current cards are, for me, nice and simple to read and use and don't need to be changed |
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Post by VPL630 on Oct 28, 2015 11:13:58 GMT
Since you're a new driver - albeit one with years of enthusiast experience! - how easy do you find it to read those duty cards? Have you seen the new style duty cards the company are planning to introduce? Personally I don't like them. The current cards are, for me, nice and simple to read and use and don't need to be changed I only look at departure times now and follow headway unless I'm first bus, but yeah they are simple, the new style ones I find easier but I've heard nothing but bad things about them as they are A4 and A4 doesn't fit into my pocket, I also don't see what the problem was with the old style, I also don't see why they have all that information on the back that should just be common sense, I don't really have a say but I would have done them differently |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 28, 2015 12:54:41 GMT
Since you're a new driver - albeit one with years of enthusiast experience! - how easy do you find it to read those duty cards? Have you seen the new style duty cards the company are planning to introduce? Personally I don't like them. The current cards are, for me, nice and simple to read and use and don't need to be changed Glad they went back to normal LT style duty cards. They did a First London under ELBG and used A4 size paper which was not popular and also did it in the way of written out instead of abbreviation. Also no looking from end to end of that type to easily make out how much rounds you have. |
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Post by VPL630 on Oct 28, 2015 15:41:25 GMT
Since you're a new driver - albeit one with years of enthusiast experience! - how easy do you find it to read those duty cards? Have you seen the new style duty cards the company are planning to introduce? Personally I don't like them. The current cards are, for me, nice and simple to read and use and don't need to be changed Glad they went back to normal LT style duty cards. They did a First London under ELBG and used A4 size paper which was not popular and also did it in the way of written out instead of abbreviation. Also no looking from end to end of that type to easily make out how much rounds you have. From an enthusiast point of view, I kinda liked the First London duty cards, but as a driver A4 just isn't practical, plus it wouldn't fit on my clipboard, I much prefer the current old style like the one I've posted, it has everything you need, nothing less, nothing more, the only addition I would like is the time my break started and finished but it's easy enough to work out |
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Post by VPL630 on Nov 3, 2015 9:09:22 GMT
Did a late 275 on Friday and well I don't think I've enjoyed driving a bus in London so much since I started, really enjoy this route, no traffic, no hassle, no idiot uber drivers cutting you up, no cyclists, and clear roads I took over at the peak time of 4pm, bus was late and so was my leader who I caught up at Woodford Green, both our buses had standing loads, he ended up getting a Woodford Bridge turn and I got swamped going to Barkingside but I was still 6 mins early arriving at Tesco despite taking over 8 mins late!!! The schedule on this route is very robust, lots of stand time and running time The duty involved taking the bus back to the garage for break, only downside is this duty had a short 50 min break so if I was late getting back to the garage for whatever reason I would also be late going out, luckily hoe street was good and I made the garage in good time, I think I'm just going to leave the bus at St James St next time unless I want to swap my bus over The bus I had was 10180, it was of average performance but being a 63 reg, ever so nicer to drive than a 12reg or our ex BW 61 plate hybrids, unfortunately the O/S mirror was a but too far back for my linking you can't have everything It was quite good on the light run from Barkinside, I went via Gants Hills, Woodford Avenue, A406, Waterworks Corner, Woodford New Road and Lea Bridge Road, the bus managed a solid 50 up the hill on the A406 without even breaking a sweat, would have left any 123's for dust seeing how slow some of those VLA's and DW's take that hill. I really enjoy this route, even more so at night, it's just nice, calm and doesn't stress me out at all unlike the 56, in a way the route is a lot of work with reading and planning, there are countless hazards throughout the route with low trees, poorly parked cars, Narrow sections, bollards everywhere, poorly placed bus shelters, blind corners, making one mistake is an easy way to end up filling in an accident report, still I enjoy it, it's a challenge and that's what I like, it really is a world away from the 48 and 56, was really thinking about how nice it would be to go on the 275 rota despite the fact I can't see that happening any time soon, They recently did a rota change on all the routes and gave drivers the choice of what they wanted to do, basically all the new drivers got 48 or 56 while more senior drivers got 179, 215 and 275 but then again it was done in seniority so was to be expected, at the time of being asked I hadn't done the 179 or 275 so opted to stay spare, hopefully for the better |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 3, 2015 13:03:48 GMT
Did a late 275 on Friday and well I don't think I've enjoyed driving a bus in London so much since I started, really enjoy this route, no traffic, no hassle, no idiot uber drivers cutting you up, no cyclists, and clear roads I took over at the peak time of 4pm, bus was late and so was my leader who I caught up at Woodford Green, both our buses had standing loads, he ended up getting a Woodford Bridge turn and I got swamped going to Barkingside but I was still 6 mins early arriving at Tesco despite taking over 8 mins late!!! The schedule on this route is very robust, lots of stand time and running time The duty involved taking the bus back to the garage for break, only downside is this duty had a short 50 min break so if I was late getting back to the garage for whatever reason I would also be late going out, luckily hoe street was good and I made the garage in good time, I think I'm just going to leave the bus at St James St next time unless I want to swap my bus over The bus I had was 10180, it was of average performance but being a 63 reg, ever so nicer to drive than a 12reg or our ex BW 61 plate hybrids, unfortunately the O/S mirror was a but too far back for my linking you can't have everything It was quite good on the light run from Barkinside, I went via Gants Hills, Woodford Avenue, A406, Waterworks Corner, Woodford New Road and Lea Bridge Road, the bus managed a solid 50 up the hill on the A406 without even breaking a sweat, would have left any 123's for dust seeing how slow some of those VLA's and DW's take that hill. I really enjoy this route, even more so at night, it's just nice, calm and doesn't stress me out at all unlike the 56, in a way the route is a lot of work with reading and planning, there are countless hazards throughout the route with low trees, poorly parked cars, Narrow sections, bollards everywhere, poorly placed bus shelters, blind corners, making one mistake is an easy way to end up filling in an accident report, still I enjoy it, it's a challenge and that's what I like, it really is a world away from the 48 and 56, was really thinking about how nice it would be to go on the 275 rota despite the fact I can't see that happening any time soon, They recently did a rota change on all the routes and gave drivers the choice of what they wanted to do, basically all the new drivers got 48 or 56 while more senior drivers got 179, 215 and 275 but then again it was done in seniority so was to be expected, at the time of being asked I hadn't done the 179 or 275 so opted to stay spare, hopefully for the better That stretch of the A406 gradient approaching Waterworks from Charlie Browns, I remember getting my ass kicked while driving a TA out of service (euro2) by an all Leyland Olympian in service on route 123 some years ago. It tended to slow down going uphill whether ZF 5 speed or Votih 3 speed, while that Olympian with 5 speed ZF and Cummins C series ate it for breakfast loaded with passengers! The DW's from around 400 IIRC are restricted to 43 mph, earlier unrestricted ones would leave your E400 for dust. They also eat hills for breakfast. The same goes for the B7TL, maybe the drivers on the 123 are not bothered as they are in service. The only E400 that could keep up with a B7TL is the euro4 versions with kickdown.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 3, 2015 14:35:35 GMT
Did a late 275 on Friday and well I don't think I've enjoyed driving a bus in London so much since I started, really enjoy this route, no traffic, no hassle, no idiot uber drivers cutting you up, no cyclists, and clear roads I took over at the peak time of 4pm, bus was late and so was my leader who I caught up at Woodford Green, both our buses had standing loads, he ended up getting a Woodford Bridge turn and I got swamped going to Barkingside but I was still 6 mins early arriving at Tesco despite taking over 8 mins late!!! The schedule on this route is very robust, lots of stand time and running time The duty involved taking the bus back to the garage for break, only downside is this duty had a short 50 min break so if I was late getting back to the garage for whatever reason I would also be late going out, luckily hoe street was good and I made the garage in good time, I think I'm just going to leave the bus at St James St next time unless I want to swap my bus over The bus I had was 10180, it was of average performance but being a 63 reg, ever so nicer to drive than a 12reg or our ex BW 61 plate hybrids, unfortunately the O/S mirror was a but too far back for my linking you can't have everything It was quite good on the light run from Barkinside, I went via Gants Hills, Woodford Avenue, A406, Waterworks Corner, Woodford New Road and Lea Bridge Road, the bus managed a solid 50 up the hill on the A406 without even breaking a sweat, would have left any 123's for dust seeing how slow some of those VLA's and DW's take that hill. I really enjoy this route, even more so at night, it's just nice, calm and doesn't stress me out at all unlike the 56, in a way the route is a lot of work with reading and planning, there are countless hazards throughout the route with low trees, poorly parked cars, Narrow sections, bollards everywhere, poorly placed bus shelters, blind corners, making one mistake is an easy way to end up filling in an accident report, still I enjoy it, it's a challenge and that's what I like, it really is a world away from the 48 and 56, was really thinking about how nice it would be to go on the 275 rota despite the fact I can't see that happening any time soon, They recently did a rota change on all the routes and gave drivers the choice of what they wanted to do, basically all the new drivers got 48 or 56 while more senior drivers got 179, 215 and 275 but then again it was done in seniority so was to be expected, at the time of being asked I hadn't done the 179 or 275 so opted to stay spare, hopefully for the better That stretch of the A406 gradient approaching Waterworks from Charlie Browns, I remember getting my ass kicked while driving a TA out of service (euro2) by an all Leyland Olympian in service on route 123 some years ago. It tended to slow down going uphill whether ZF 5 speed or Votih 3 speed, while that Olympian with 5 speed ZF and Cummins C series ate it for breakfast loaded with passengers! The DW's from around 400 IIRC are restricted to 43 mph, earlier unrestricted ones would leave your E400 for dust. They also eat hills for breakfast. The same goes for the B7TL, maybe the drivers on the 123 are not bothered as they are in service. The only E400 that could keep up with a B7TL is the euro4 versions with kickdown.
The 54 reg VLA's are terrible and are as bad as the 05 reg were at N. They used to struggle to climb Central Hill & Crown Dale. |
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Post by VPL630 on Nov 3, 2015 16:36:55 GMT
Did a late 275 on Friday and well I don't think I've enjoyed driving a bus in London so much since I started, really enjoy this route, no traffic, no hassle, no idiot uber drivers cutting you up, no cyclists, and clear roads I took over at the peak time of 4pm, bus was late and so was my leader who I caught up at Woodford Green, both our buses had standing loads, he ended up getting a Woodford Bridge turn and I got swamped going to Barkingside but I was still 6 mins early arriving at Tesco despite taking over 8 mins late!!! The schedule on this route is very robust, lots of stand time and running time The duty involved taking the bus back to the garage for break, only downside is this duty had a short 50 min break so if I was late getting back to the garage for whatever reason I would also be late going out, luckily hoe street was good and I made the garage in good time, I think I'm just going to leave the bus at St James St next time unless I want to swap my bus over The bus I had was 10180, it was of average performance but being a 63 reg, ever so nicer to drive than a 12reg or our ex BW 61 plate hybrids, unfortunately the O/S mirror was a but too far back for my linking you can't have everything It was quite good on the light run from Barkinside, I went via Gants Hills, Woodford Avenue, A406, Waterworks Corner, Woodford New Road and Lea Bridge Road, the bus managed a solid 50 up the hill on the A406 without even breaking a sweat, would have left any 123's for dust seeing how slow some of those VLA's and DW's take that hill. I really enjoy this route, even more so at night, it's just nice, calm and doesn't stress me out at all unlike the 56, in a way the route is a lot of work with reading and planning, there are countless hazards throughout the route with low trees, poorly parked cars, Narrow sections, bollards everywhere, poorly placed bus shelters, blind corners, making one mistake is an easy way to end up filling in an accident report, still I enjoy it, it's a challenge and that's what I like, it really is a world away from the 48 and 56, was really thinking about how nice it would be to go on the 275 rota despite the fact I can't see that happening any time soon, They recently did a rota change on all the routes and gave drivers the choice of what they wanted to do, basically all the new drivers got 48 or 56 while more senior drivers got 179, 215 and 275 but then again it was done in seniority so was to be expected, at the time of being asked I hadn't done the 179 or 275 so opted to stay spare, hopefully for the better That stretch of the A406 gradient approaching Waterworks from Charlie Browns, I remember getting my ass kicked while driving a TA out of service (euro2) by an all Leyland Olympian in service on route 123 some years ago. It tended to slow down going uphill whether ZF 5 speed or Votih 3 speed, while that Olympian with 5 speed ZF and Cummins C series ate it for breakfast loaded with passengers! The DW's from around 400 IIRC are restricted to 43 mph, earlier unrestricted ones would leave your E400 for dust. They also eat hills for breakfast. The same goes for the B7TL, maybe the drivers on the 123 are not bothered as they are in service. The only E400 that could keep up with a B7TL is the euro4 versions with kickdown.
The Euro 3 TA I took up that hill would only do 45 and was blowing quite think black smoke out the back, same story for the scania's I've taken up, none of them have managed to hold 50, Your early DW's would beat out Enviro's around a bus route with their short ratio Boith gearbox and kickdown but in outright top speed would be left for dust as the DW's are screaming their tits off at 50 |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 4, 2015 13:36:40 GMT
That stretch of the A406 gradient approaching Waterworks from Charlie Browns, I remember getting my ass kicked while driving a TA out of service (euro2) by an all Leyland Olympian in service on route 123 some years ago. It tended to slow down going uphill whether ZF 5 speed or Votih 3 speed, while that Olympian with 5 speed ZF and Cummins C series ate it for breakfast loaded with passengers! The DW's from around 400 IIRC are restricted to 43 mph, earlier unrestricted ones would leave your E400 for dust. They also eat hills for breakfast. The same goes for the B7TL, maybe the drivers on the 123 are not bothered as they are in service. The only E400 that could keep up with a B7TL is the euro4 versions with kickdown.
The 54 reg VLA's are terrible and are as bad as the 05 reg were at N. They used to struggle to climb Central Hill & Crown Dale. Have they had the kickdown switches removed? Do they upshift at 1500-1700rpm with foot flat down, compared to 2300-2500rpm normal with kickdown. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 4, 2015 13:55:38 GMT
That stretch of the A406 gradient approaching Waterworks from Charlie Browns, I remember getting my ass kicked while driving a TA out of service (euro2) by an all Leyland Olympian in service on route 123 some years ago. It tended to slow down going uphill whether ZF 5 speed or Votih 3 speed, while that Olympian with 5 speed ZF and Cummins C series ate it for breakfast loaded with passengers! The DW's from around 400 IIRC are restricted to 43 mph, earlier unrestricted ones would leave your E400 for dust. They also eat hills for breakfast. The same goes for the B7TL, maybe the drivers on the 123 are not bothered as they are in service. The only E400 that could keep up with a B7TL is the euro4 versions with kickdown.
The Euro 3 TA I took up that hill would only do 45 and was blowing quite think black smoke out the back, same story for the scania's I've taken up, none of them have managed to hold 50, Your early DW's would beat out Enviro's around a bus route with their short ratio Boith gearbox and kickdown but in outright top speed would be left for dust as the DW's are screaming their tits off at 50 The Euro 3 TA used to eat that hill. I remember when they were new and running it back light on the 58 on the A406 from East Ham to [T] over that section. The 4th gear on the Voith had a 0.77 gear ratio compared to the ZF 5th at 0.87. This allowed the Voith to reach up to 70 if the speed limiter was turned off (by law they must stop buses at 62.5mph - 100km/h) the ZF 5 would do it at around 65. The DW would hit the 62.5mph limit and not scream its tits off, it has the newer 4 speed Voith gearbox with 4th gear 0.73. The 6 speed ZF would more than likely go past 70 unrestricted as its 6th gear has a 0.615 gear ratio.
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Post by Alex on Nov 9, 2015 23:46:06 GMT
Thank you for posting the 48 duty card and apologies it's taken me so long to reply. The card is more or less what I thought it would be and it's an interesting example. Thanks again Glad they went back to normal LT style duty cards. They did a First London under ELBG and used A4 size paper which was not popular and also did it in the way of written out instead of abbreviation. Also no looking from end to end of that type to easily make out how much rounds you have. Like this one: thelondonbuspeople.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/147-duty-card.htmlYes, it seemed a bit strange to see this sort in London - the ones in this style I have seen before are with provincial operators using the 'Trapeze' duty system. The one I remember Stagecoach (out of London) using in the 1990s was the 'Q Graph' system but guessing Trapeze has taken over most places. Go-Ahead use a similar sort of thing now, but two columns on one side of A5. Thing is, with London cards, if it's not broken, it's not worth fixing. I've seen timecards on Ebay from the 1930s which are the same format (left to right, timing points on top) so it's something that a lot of people are used to. Take it that 'TS' and 'DS' are time schedule and duty schedule? Also it's interesting to see that book on/off times, meal breaks and pay hours aren't shown on the schedule card. I know that out of London all this is presented on it. What are the new ones like? Is it a return to the ELBG style? Again, if the present version works it's not worth changing  |
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Post by eggmiester on Nov 10, 2015 0:29:28 GMT
Yes DS is duty schedule and TS is time schedule as per LT days when they were separately compiled, nowadays they are generally compiled together so are the same number.
Go ahead still use DS and TS numbers despite adopting the Grampian duty system and having different time cards.
Also Go-Ahead are following suit of of some other operators and removing the intermediate timing points from the time cards of high frequency routes to encourage drivers to use their ibus headway displays more. Only start point and end point will be shown with any changeover points / variations where necessary.
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really not a fan of this route, trying to run a 6 min headway on a route with live changeovers 
