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Post by intransit on Aug 29, 2015 22:41:20 GMT
Would it be unreasonable to ask a controller to keep an eye on you as a new driver if you are unsure of a diversion, and to be more specific, a diversion that isn't signposted in reverse. I thought controllers were specifically that, there to control you and a helping eye on the road ahead. Instead I get a windfall of verbal of how busy they are and that they do not have time to keep an eye out....tbh it sounded like a load of proverbial BS because the last thing a controller wants is to lose mileage?
The kind of feedback I get from a few particular controllers is that they are trying to trip you up, like they get a kick out of lording over you with the hope of you screwing up so they can lord it over you some more!
I know some of the admins here are controllers, so I do not want this post to be perceived as an attack on controllers!
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Post by greeny253 on Aug 30, 2015 7:12:08 GMT
It's not an unreasonable request but if you are ever unsure of a diversion, make a code blue to CentreComm and ask them to run through it. They won't have a problem with it and it's better you run through it with someone rather than chancing it.
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Post by eggmiester on Aug 31, 2015 23:57:58 GMT
As a controller I wouldn't say it was an unreasonable request at all but we all need to understand that drivers and controllers have a hard and demanding job to do, a job that can be difficult at times, such at times of heavy disruption etc.
As a driver it is your duty to read all notices of events which will notify you of changes to service, planned diversions, and other events that may affect your route prior to starting your work and this is a golden opportunity, especially for new drivers, to make notes of diversions, or if in doubt ask a supervisor to make a copy of the notice to take with you.
Obviously it is a bit harder with unscheduled or emergency diversions, ok having a good knowledge of the local area is ideal but is not always the case and I regularly try and assist drivers around diversions as best I can but I also have to try and maintain my services at the same time (I can have as many as 5 or more routes to control depending on the time of day)
Add to that, at the time of an emergency / unplanned diversion you can have a lot of drivers calling you to clarify the diversion or also asking for help with the diversion it gets a bit monotonous and demanding!
Then you have the ever changing road layouts in London, coupled with new developments and construction etc which can even catch us controllers out let alone drivers.
So in certain such circumstances it is better for a driver to call code blue and ask CentreComm for assistance, especially if you have already gone off line of route or diversion route as they would be better prepared with up to date road status information etc.
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Post by intransit on Sept 7, 2015 23:14:27 GMT
I do understand where you are coming from at your end, but sometimes getting a simple answer to a simple question can be frustrating or at times getting a quick brush off like they have no time to listen to faults being reported, sounds to me that they cannot be bothered to comprehend anything that is being reported or too busy having a smoke outside.....over and out without dealing with the problem/fault being reported, I had a a warning on my dash for a brake fault and an deafening audible warning (claxxon) a while back and after reporting via green button, the controller told me to continue...I said your joking? can you hear this claxxon? that's the Rainham controllers for you!
I have had very good help from some controllers, it's just a few bad apples that spoil the bunch.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 2:00:44 GMT
Something I've noticed is the trend of "stacking" if faced with a spontaneous incident requiring a road closure rather than organising a diversion straight away.
Are the drivers told only to follow official tfl / operator decided diversions and not follow suggestions provided by police for example ?
I can understand reasons why a driver wouldn't want to take a diversion of their own accord or upon advice from a police officer , but would they get criticised if they do ? Or does common sense prevail, I.e. If the driver knows the area , takes the common sense diversion prior to an official one being implemented ?
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Post by snoggle on Sept 8, 2015 8:48:18 GMT
Something I've noticed is the trend of "stacking" if faced with a spontaneous incident requiring a road closure rather than organising a diversion straight away. Are the drivers told only to follow official tfl / operator decided diversions and not follow suggestions provided by police for example ? I can understand reasons why a driver wouldn't want to take a diversion of their own accord or upon advice from a police officer , but would they get criticised if they do ? Or does common sense prevail, I.e. If the driver knows the area , takes the common sense diversion prior to an official one being implemented ? I believe someone from TfL Network Operations or the bus company have to risk assess any diversion where it involves the use of roads not normally used by the same type of bus. I once offered to help a 123 driver, back in Capital Citybus days, from T Hale to Blackhorse Rd via the A406 and Billet Road because there'd been an almighty smash on Ferry Lane / Forest Road. Told in no uncertain terms that he couldn't move the bus anywhere until it was formally authorised despite the fact all the roads are used by double deckers. I sort of understand the issue but the delays that can result do nothing for keeping the service going.
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Post by rambo on Sept 8, 2015 16:24:02 GMT
Something I've noticed is the trend of "stacking" if faced with a spontaneous incident requiring a road closure rather than organising a diversion straight away. Are the drivers told only to follow official tfl / operator decided diversions and not follow suggestions provided by police for example ? I can understand reasons why a driver wouldn't want to take a diversion of their own accord or upon advice from a police officer , but would they get criticised if they do ? Or does common sense prevail, I.e. If the driver knows the area , takes the common sense diversion prior to an official one being implemented ? Everything is ACE. ACE? Arse Covering Exercise. No such thing as common sense anymore on londons buses. Take your own diversion and have a crash? Bye bye job.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Sept 13, 2015 9:11:04 GMT
Unless you was finishing then you would be foolish to go off on your own diversion.
Why risk losing your job or getting lost when you can sit there and miss a few rounders or some of your second half.
I know what I did when I was a driver.
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Post by RT3062 on Sept 13, 2015 9:46:02 GMT
Unless you was finishing then you would be foolish to go off on your own diversion. Why risk losing your job or getting lost when you can sit there and miss a few rounders or some of your second half. I know what I did when I was a driver. you are right its not worth it.i remember on the 25s one evening it took me 45 mins to get through one set if lights on romford road.a very short second half that day.
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Post by VPL630 on Sept 13, 2015 10:19:57 GMT
Unless you was finishing then you would be foolish to go off on your own diversion. Why risk losing your job or getting lost when you can sit there and miss a few rounders or some of your second half. I know what I did when I was a driver. Yeah this totally, the last time I went on diversion they did give a really long winded diversion that would have taken much longer and we would have ended up in the same place plus I really wasn't sure on where I was going so I did ask can I take a shortcut via XYZ route to which they agreed, the controller that time was being very reasonable/helpful/understanding but there are sometimes where I'm really not happy with their responses or just the way they have delivered their response, I know they have a stressful job and everything but there is no need to give snappy replies or take it out on us drivers when we are being more than reasonable to them and just awaiting their instructions. It really does help to have an idea of the possible diversion routes that could happen, I guess you are a new driver intransit so talk to your mentor, they will be more than happy to help you with common diversions, after a while you will just know the diversion without even thinking about it, also other routes at your garage even if you don't drive them for whatever reason, just learn them as they could say something like "take the 55 route to XYZ", well if you don't know the 55 you don't know where your going etc
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Post by VPL630 on Sept 13, 2015 10:22:44 GMT
I do understand where you are coming from at your end, but sometimes getting a simple answer to a simple question can be frustrating or at times getting a quick brush off like they have no time to listen to faults being reported, sounds to me that they cannot be bothered to comprehend anything that is being reported or too busy having a smoke outside.....over and out without dealing with the problem/fault being reported, I had a a warning on my dash for a brake fault and an deafening audible warning (claxxon) a while back and after reporting via green button, the controller told me to continue...I said your joking? can you hear this claxxon? that's the Rainham controllers for you! I have had very good help from some controllers, it's just a few bad apples that spoil the bunch. Most of the time they go on what the "engineers" say, Anything RED or beeping, I'm not carrying on in service, regardless, if you don't feel happy driving the bus, don't drive it
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Post by rambo on Sept 13, 2015 19:11:51 GMT
I do understand where you are coming from at your end, but sometimes getting a simple answer to a simple question can be frustrating or at times getting a quick brush off like they have no time to listen to faults being reported, sounds to me that they cannot be bothered to comprehend anything that is being reported or too busy having a smoke outside.....over and out without dealing with the problem/fault being reported, I had a a warning on my dash for a brake fault and an deafening audible warning (claxxon) a while back and after reporting via green button, the controller told me to continue...I said your joking? can you hear this claxxon? that's the Rainham controllers for you! I have had very good help from some controllers, it's just a few bad apples that spoil the bunch. Most of the time they go on what the "engineers" say, Anything RED or beeping, I'm not carrying on in service, regardless, if you don't feel happy driving the bus, don't drive it As long as it moves, the engineers will say carry on. In the past ive have just said; ' I am refusing to drive this bus any further based on the safety of my passengers and myself'.
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Post by intransit on Sept 14, 2015 2:45:25 GMT
Brakes, steering and wheels is a 'no-no', I had a a broken check-link a while back and it was an immediate 'DO NOT move the bus, engineer on the way' engineer turns up with a new check-link, that's it! No new bus, no checking of the wheel nuts torque.
I've had a few buses with dodgey play in the steering wheel.....roughly 1.5-2 inches in steering play/free movement where the direction of the wheels/bus does not change direction and that led me to have a little read up with the categorization of defects, though it is a little sketchy with clauses etc
Here is another sketchy one that I had on a bus a few days ago, centre groove on tyre below 1mm tread depth and the rule is 1mm tread depth across the central 3/4 of the tread around the complete circumference of the tyre. Looking back, I should have called that one in....
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Post by capitalomnibus on Sept 21, 2015 23:22:09 GMT
Years ago, controllers never bothered if drivers took it on their own to go on diversion. Most of the time if they were notified they would put one out and let Centrecomm know. However now, they hardly do it and mostly wait for Centrecomm to put a diversion on. At times Centrecomm may change the diversion to what the controllers put on, simply as the route controllers are likely to put on diversions that better suit route control and is shorter. Centrecomm tend to make sure that as much of the route is served as possible.
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Post by eggmiester on Sept 27, 2015 4:47:17 GMT
At the end of the day the drivers are the company's first line in maintenance, by checking their vehicles and reporting faults or defects.
I would certainly not allow a driver to drive an unsafe vehicle. As a controller it can be hard being the 'middle man' at times, between the driver and engineer, that in some cases I will ask the driver to call the engineers directly.
In terms of diversions there's more to it than just choosing going the 'shortest' or 'easiest' way.
Diversion routes may have unexpected obstacles like roadworks or restrictions of some kind imposed that a controller may not be aware of. Also diversion routes that are not regular bus routes will need to be risk assessed by an NTC.
Then there's the passenger factor, having routes diverted for the shortest distance to minimise inconvenience to passengers etc.
So yes gone are the days of just asking drivers to go via road x y and z... We do suggest known/regular diversions to CentreComm at times of disruption and generally get their agreement to use them, but they do have the final say.
Controllers are able to occasionally send buses via an 'alternative' route if a road becomes blocked by an incident for instance but unless a diversion reference is provided by CentreComm the company will have to pay for the lost mileage.
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