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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 5, 2017 15:52:10 GMT
Not fussed about the 2+2 seating as it's so blooming hard to get on trains in rush hour between Leyton and Blackhorse Road. I'll quite like to be able to get on a train when it turns up instead of having to brave the roads in Waltham Forest - I can sometimes walk faster from Leyton to Walthamstow these days. That's what I'm looking forward to as well, the 2+2 seating completely inappropriate for the service and I'm not too sure why it was even chosen in the first place. I like the seats they're very comfortable and I usually get a seat in the morning if I use the service because I get on at the first stop but I'd much rather everyone got where they needed to on time.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 5, 2017 17:34:35 GMT
That's what I'm looking forward to as well, the 2+2 seating completely inappropriate for the service and I'm not too sure why it was even chosen in the first place. I like the seats they're very comfortable and I usually get a seat in the morning if I use the service because I get on at the first stop but I'd much rather everyone got where they needed to on time. The line user group's history of the route says that the 172s were never part of TfL's spec. They had assumed the retention of class 150s. However LOROL bid with the 172s and that was accepted. They were certainly a vast improvement against the ex Silverlink / London Midland 150s. Clearly no one expected the sheer volume of passengers to materialise in the peaks and that's why we have the chronic problems that we do. On the basis that "every cloud has a silver lining" then the overcrowding and growth has helped support the case for electrification and longer trains. That in turn has helped justify the extension to Barking Riverside.
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Post by snowman on Dec 5, 2017 18:33:48 GMT
That's what I'm looking forward to as well, the 2+2 seating completely inappropriate for the service and I'm not too sure why it was even chosen in the first place. I like the seats they're very comfortable and I usually get a seat in the morning if I use the service because I get on at the first stop but I'd much rather everyone got where they needed to on time. The line user group's history of the route says that the 172s were never part of TfL's spec. They had assumed the retention of class 150s. However LOROL bid with the 172s and that was accepted. They were certainly a vast improvement against the ex Silverlink / London Midland 150s. Clearly no one expected the sheer volume of passengers to materialise in the peaks and that's why we have the chronic problems that we do. On the basis that "every cloud has a silver lining" then the overcrowding and growth has helped support the case for electrification and longer trains. That in turn has helped justify the extension to Barking Riverside. I do wonder if the platforms are going to be long enough, some used to be able to take 7-9 cars years ago. Although the renovations seem to be restricted to 4 car length. In fact station capacity and platform length often seems to be underestimated in TfL projects (crossrail excepted with its 11 car platforms, although initially 9 car trains (7 car temporarily into Liverpool St). Is there an option to lengthen the trains as happened to the 3 and 4 car Overground trains. Having visited New York last year, many of its metro trains were 11car although some shuttles were shorter. London Underground has never gone that far although Central line platforms were lengthened to 8 cars, why the Overground thinks short trains are sufficient always baffles me. (I know some stations are difficult to extend, but it was done at Blackfriars, so possible, if expensive)
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Post by snoggle on Dec 5, 2017 20:44:15 GMT
I do wonder if the platforms are going to be long enough, some used to be able to take 7-9 cars years ago. Although the renovations seem to be restricted to 4 car length. In fact station capacity and platform length often seems to be underestimated in TfL projects (crossrail excepted with its 11 car platforms, although initially 9 car trains (7 car temporarily into Liverpool St). Is there an option to lengthen the trains as happened to the 3 and 4 car Overground trains. Having visited New York last year, many of its metro trains were 11car although some shuttles were shorter. London Underground has never gone that far although Central line platforms were lengthened to 8 cars, why the Overground thinks short trains are sufficient always baffles me. (I know some stations are difficult to extend, but it was done at Blackfriars, so possible, if expensive) Network Rail's view is that a 4 car 15 min service will suffice on the GOBLIN up to 2043 (from their Anglia route specification 2016). I happened to be looking at it yesterday. I suspect TfL possibly don't agree with that timescale which is why they have been contemplating a 5tph service although 1 tph would have to terminate at Barking. I assume that's because of pathing issues on C2C east of Barking once the Riverside extension is open. The 710s can be extended. TfL have just ordered some 5 car units for the NLL. The contract options for the 710s include extra complete trains and extra carriages for lengthening. I think TfL have a basic preference to up frequency as that's proven to bring in more users and thus revenue. Longer trains at existing frequencies cost more and probably don't bring in extra cash. While many platforms on the GOBLIN are reasonably easy to extend as you stated there are two particularly troublesome locations - Gospel Oak and South Tottenham. To allow for 5 car trains it is likely substantial works would be needed at these locations which just shoves up the cost. While not wishing to make excuses it is worth bearing in mind that TfL have only been in charge of main line services for 10 years. The scale of growth on the Overground took everyone by surprise and while it has moderated there are further difficulties if TfL were to go above 5 cars on the Overground. There was a particular lack of foresight when the JLE was built in respect of Canada Water but that's hindsight talking. Circumstances and the likely future were very different then compared to now. The saving grace on the electric bits of the initial Overground was generous Govt funding for TfL and the Olympics plus Ken's willingness to sign various things off quickly and not dither for years. We wouldn't have the SLL bit of Overground or the ELL to Highbury if he had dithered for years.
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Post by snowman on Dec 9, 2017 9:24:37 GMT
The Gospel Oak - South Tottenham wires are being energised tomorrow Apparently the remainder to Woodgrange Park will be turned on a week later Sunday 17th
Normal practice is to run a heavy use load, e.g. an electric loco to check. There used to be a loco specially converted as a loadbank (think it was an old class 84 electric loco), after testing for interference and compliance is then signed off for electric trains.
Must be other work going on along the line as closure continues until January, then short diesel trains return for a while, until new electric trains are ready.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 16, 2017 11:49:00 GMT
Network Rail are rewiring and joining up the Seven Sisters chord this weekend. The link over the South Junction (to Lea Bridge) is being done on Sunday. The Haringay curve is being wired on Boxing Day - presumably because the power on the ECML can be off to allow it to be all connected up.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 18, 2017 0:06:02 GMT
Another NR tweet - this time about testing the live overhead on the GOBLIN, more specifically at S Tottenham if you look at the tweets linked to that one.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 18, 2017 15:11:39 GMT
Confirmation that the Crouch Hill bridge raising works start in the New Year.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 22, 2017 10:51:16 GMT
Courtesy of another forum I've found Network Rail's most recent "Enhancements Delivery Plan". cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Enhancements-Delivery-Plan.pdfGOBLIN electrification is on page 149. Looks like the work is very nearly complete. Key date listed are :- 2 Jan 2018 - Entry into service for testing and driver training 5 Mar 2018 - Authorisation for entry into passenger service (I assume this a regulatory sign off) 2 April 2018 - First timetabled use of the new infrastructure (I take this to mean a class 710 in passenger service)
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 22, 2017 12:16:15 GMT
Courtesy of another forum I've found Network Rail's most recent "Enhancements Delivery Plan". cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Enhancements-Delivery-Plan.pdfGOBLIN electrification is on page 149. Looks like the work is very nearly complete. Key date listed are :- 2 Jan 2018 - Entry into service for testing and driver training 5 Mar 2018 - Authorisation for entry into passenger service (I assume this a regulatory sign off) 2 April 2018 - First timetabled use of the new infrastructure (I take this to mean a class 710 in passenger service) By driver training do they mean with the Class 710s? I haven't seen any sign of them arriving in London and I imagine they'll have to crack up a bit of milage before drivers can be trained on the trains. Nonetheless it's good to see that things are near, won't need to fight to get onto the Goblin the days I decide to use it now Also going to have a far more appropriate seating layout.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 22, 2017 13:12:24 GMT
Courtesy of another forum I've found Network Rail's most recent "Enhancements Delivery Plan". cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Enhancements-Delivery-Plan.pdfGOBLIN electrification is on page 149. Looks like the work is very nearly complete. Key date listed are :- 2 Jan 2018 - Entry into service for testing and driver training 5 Mar 2018 - Authorisation for entry into passenger service (I assume this a regulatory sign off) 2 April 2018 - First timetabled use of the new infrastructure (I take this to mean a class 710 in passenger service) By driver training do they mean with the Class 710s? I haven't seen any sign of them arriving in London and I imagine they'll have to crack up a bit of milage before drivers can be trained on the trains. Nonetheless it's good to see that things are near, won't need to fight to get onto the Goblin the days I decide to use it now Also going to have a far more appropriate seating layout. A post has just appeared on District Dave (I posted the above there too) saying that 6 March is when use of the 710s for route testing is due which suggests a fair delay in the trains arriving. So it looks like you might be right about a delay. A shame but perhaps not a massive surprise as I expect the issues that the 345s are having will also be affecting the 710s as well. I think software problems are affecting the 345s and they are often the most difficult things to fix given you effectively reset the testing process and start again.
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Post by TNL33036 on Dec 22, 2017 18:11:31 GMT
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 26, 2017 18:40:35 GMT
A quick question to anyone in the know. Once the Goblin goes electric would I be right in assuming that the service that goes to Willesden will stop? Because in the mornings it has to cross onto the District Line and then goes out again via Platform 8 at Barking. I'm not too sure if the crossover onto the District will be electrified, and if the that part of the District is compatible with the compromise voltage when 4th rail and 3rd rail trains operate.
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Post by MoEnviro on Dec 26, 2017 18:47:10 GMT
A quick question to anyone in the know. Once the Goblin goes electric would I be right in assuming that the service that goes to Willesden will stop? Because in the mornings it has to cross onto the District Line and then goes out again via Platform 8 at Barking. I'm not too sure if the crossover onto the District will be electrified, and if the that part of the District is compatible with the compromise voltage when 4th rail and 3rd rail trains operate. The Woodgrange Park to Willesden Junction train is in the working timetable until May, The crossover onto the District Line does not have any regular use.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 26, 2017 19:43:34 GMT
A quick question to anyone in the know. Once the Goblin goes electric would I be right in assuming that the service that goes to Willesden will stop? Because in the mornings it has to cross onto the District Line and then goes out again via Platform 8 at Barking. I'm not too sure if the crossover onto the District will be electrified, and if the that part of the District is compatible with the compromise voltage when 4th rail and 3rd rail trains operate. Does it really make that move? I thought trains would use the flyover and turn back via P7/8 at Barking. I've seen that move in the evenings. I can't believe there is any capacity on LU's tracks to allow a diesel to access them in the AM peak. TfL have said that once the route goes all electric then all the peak time extras and supplementary workings will cease. This is on the assumption that the 4 car trains will be more than able to take the peak loadings at a 15 min headway. As ever the line user group are more than a little sceptical about this but then they would be. It all depends on how quickly people return to the route when it reopens and whether the "better" service pulls in latent demand or not. My sense of things is that the closures over the last year have dented usage quite badly so it will take some time for it recover especially as rail demand is weakening anyway. I suspect passengers may be expecting some sort of miracle in a couple of weeks time when it reopens when they see all the wires and will wonder where the new trains are .....
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