Bus review

[snoggle]

TfL are talking to London Travelwatch about bus network changes today. Below are some tweets from LTW.

London Travelwatch board paper on buses Nothing from TfL there but nicely summarises the issues facing the network and the impacts.

Now please don't shoot the messenger! I've just repeated what's been tweeted and I suspect much more has been said in the meeting itself.

[Deleted]

Jul 19, 2016 10:27:36 GMT snoggle said:

TfL are talking to London Travelwatch about bus network changes today

Interesting read, thanks for posting Snoggle. Some points I note:

The projected impact of Crossrail doesn't appear to reduce peak bus usage that much, so there is some hope that TfL won't make huge changes to bus destinations in the central area, however they do state that some routes might not go there which contradicts that hope. Hard to see how they could reduce frequencies by more than a slight crop either.

With regard to the hopper fare I wonder what changes they refer to, to the oyster system or to bus services? Bit vague

I also worry that by reducing differences between weekday and weekend services this equates to reducing weekday off peak frequencies (possibly incorporated with increasing weekend frequencies as a compromise)

[snoggle]

Jul 19, 2016 10:36:05 GMT @perry84uk said:

Jul 19, 2016 10:27:36 GMT snoggle said:

TfL are talking to London Travelwatch about bus network changes today

Interesting read, thanks for posting Snoggle. Some points I note:

The projected impact of Crossrail doesn't appear to reduce peak bus usage that much, so there is some hope that TfL won't make huge changes to bus destinations in the central area, however they do state that some routes might not go there which contradicts that hope. Hard to see how they could reduce frequencies by more than a slight crop either.

With regard to the hopper fare I wonder what changes they refer to, to the oyster system or to bus services? Bit vague

I also worry that by reducing differences between weekday and weekend services this equates to reducing weekday off peak frequencies (possibly incorporated with increasing weekend frequencies as a compromise)

It's an interesting contrast to the more "bullish", more radical statements made by the Deputy Mayor for Transport. I, like you, am surprised by the smallish impact Crossrail is stated as having. That doesn't feel "right" to me but there is no time context for the numbers - is that on opening in 2018 or the full line in 2019 or sometime afterwards? When the line is fully open then the impact should be considerable.

I read it as changes to the bus network for the Hopper ticket comment. Changes to Oyster are coming along regardless as they are required for Crossrail and other objectives.

I've long been of the view that you certainly need equalisation of Sat and Sun frequencies on a number of routes. It's clear in NE London that *some* Sun freqs are just hopeless because of shopping and leisure traffic. I'm sure the same applies right across London. Clearly the idea about pulling down M-F freqs is to try to reduce the peak hour premium thus generating savings to fund better Sunday services. If you can start to flatten the cost differentials between days of operation then it should release resources for other improvements like new routes or extensions.

[rmz19]

Jul 19, 2016 10:27:36 GMT snoggle said:

TfL are talking to London Travelwatch about bus network changes today. Below are some tweets from LTW.

London Travelwatch board paper on buses Nothing from TfL there but nicely summarises the issues facing the network and the impacts.

Now please don't shoot the messenger! I've just repeated what's been tweeted and I suspect much more has been said in the meeting itself.

I don't understand why Route 6 was chosen out of all routes along Oxford Street, it is one of the most used routes and at least should be kept within close proximity of Oxford Street. I missed the last Bakerloo Line train at Piccadilly Circus last night, the n/b bus stop and subsequent bus stops thereafter were full of people, no surprises that alot of them boarded the 6 despite the fact that other routes arrived first. Regarding the projected fall in bus usage 10k does not seem like a great amount, and rightly so, frequencies may be adjusted but curtailments and diversion are not needed. I can't say I'm surprised, I struggle to see what impact Crossrail will have on buses in Central London.

[Deleted]

Jul 19, 2016 11:22:03 GMT rmz19 said:

Jul 19, 2016 10:27:36 GMT snoggle said:

TfL are talking to London Travelwatch about bus network changes today. Below are some tweets from LTW.

London Travelwatch board paper on buses Nothing from TfL there but nicely summarises the issues facing the network and the impacts.

Now please don't shoot the messenger! I've just repeated what's been tweeted and I suspect much more has been said in the meeting itself.

I don't understand why Route 6 was chosen out of all routes along Oxford Street, it is one of the most used routes and at least should be kept within close proximity of Oxford Street. I missed the last Bakerloo Line train at Piccadilly Circus last night, the n/b bus stop and subsequent bus stops thereafter were full of people, no surprises that alot of them boarded the 6 despite the fact that other routes arrived first. Regarding the projected fall in bus usage 10k does not seem like a great amount, and rightly so, frequencies may be adjusted but curtailments and diversion are not needed. I can't say I'm surprised, I struggle to see what impact Crossrail will have on buses in Central London.

The problem is they could still do it, who knows what that slim forecast is all about when you consider they still talk about removing some routes, adjusting frequencies, not to mention the mooted 82 withdrawal, 436 diversion et al. I wonder if it's a PR stunt in the making

[Deleted]

With regard to the hopper ticket I wonder if TfL considered the drawback in that it gives some passengers tough choices for example in traffic scenarios when they want to make a connection and have a negative balance on the oyster card after touching in on the first bus and the hour times out so can't get on the connecting bus as the system attempts to charge again.

I can see this causing bus drivers all kinds of grief.

[sid]

Jul 19, 2016 13:35:20 GMT @perry84uk said:

With regard to the hopper ticket I wonder if TfL considered the drawback in that it gives some passengers tough choices for example in traffic scenarios when they want to make a connection and have a negative balance on the oyster card after touching in on the first bus and the hour times out so can't get on the connecting bus as the system attempts to charge again.

I can see this causing bus drivers all kinds of grief.

I really do wonder whether this hopper ticket, or whatever its official name is, will be more trouble than it's worth? I can certainly see TfL using it to justify cutting some direct links on the basis that passengers can change bus without any additional cost being incurred.

[Deleted]

Jul 20, 2016 9:28:13 GMT sid said:

Jul 19, 2016 13:35:20 GMT @perry84uk said:

With regard to the hopper ticket I wonder if TfL considered the drawback in that it gives some passengers tough choices for example in traffic scenarios when they want to make a connection and have a negative balance on the oyster card after touching in on the first bus and the hour times out so can't get on the connecting bus as the system attempts to charge again.

I can see this causing bus drivers all kinds of grief.

I really do wonder whether this hopper ticket, or whatever its official name is, will be more trouble than it's worth? I can certainly see TfL using it to justify cutting some direct links on the basis that passengers can change bus without any additional cost being incurred.

Yep, certainly adds weight to the theory that this, combined with Crossrail, HS1/2, Oxford Street etc will possibly mean dilution of bus services in the capital.

[snoggle]

London Travelwatch have published the presentation that TfL made to them about the bus network (as per tweets earlier this week).

Presentation

It's well worth a look if only because of the hints it gives on possible new bus routes at Battersea Nine Elms and Meridian Water.

[Deleted]

Jul 21, 2016 12:15:03 GMT snoggle said:

London Travelwatch have published the presentation that TfL made to them about the bus network (as per tweets earlier this week).

Presentation

It's well worth a look if only because of the hints it gives on possible new bus routes at Battersea Nine Elms and Meridian Water.

Another awesome post Snoggle, interesting to see that they are looking at extensions to Waterloo and Chelsea.

It really looks like central London services will be whittled down, let's hope that in their summary by 'some' they don't mean 'plenty of'. It would make sense however if any savings achieved funds improvements to bus services elsewhere.

[snoggle]

The London Assembly Transport Cttee are gearing up to begin an investigation into the bus network. More info at the December meeting but here is what they have published thus far.

Bus network
4.4 The Committee has identified London’s bus services as a topic for investigation in 2017. An investigation is likely to focus on network design, route planning and bus safety. This will correspond with a major TfL review of the bus network. Further detail will be provided at the Committee’s next meeting. It is proposed that Members delegate authority to the Chair in consultation with party Group Lead Members to agree the scope and terms of reference of the investigation.

On the bus safety point TfL are putting a paper about the Bus Safety Programme to the upcoming Safety, Sustainability and HR panel meeting.

tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/sshr-20161117-item10-bus-safety-programme.pdf

[snoggle]

The forward plan for the Customer Services / Ops Performance Panel has an entry for the 10 May meeting (papers published a week before this) about "Future of Buses / New Bus Network". Not the first mention of this but the first time a date for the paper emerging has been published.