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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 9:46:45 GMT
The real winners are the rip-off rickshaws that WCC pledged to do something about but are still ambling about with little or no due care and attention. I dare predict we may see accidents in Oxford Street post-pedestrianisation because of these monstrosities. Taxis do indeed provide a service but are they really going to say to the elderly and handicapped "here's an expensive way to travel to Oxford Street, what's this 'freedom pass' thing? You want to use THAT instead of MONEY? AHAHAHAHA". And they already have an alternative method of transportation that should not need exploring. They are called 'buses'. Further evidence methinks that they care only for the wealthy as you mentioned snoggle . Let's have residents cars exempted while we are at it. And close the street completely to make way as a private landing strip for the D-list celebrities. (Which I wouldn't mind if it were Patsy and Eddie arriving for a shoot at Lacroix)
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Post by sid on Sept 5, 2016 9:50:14 GMT
Here we go again. London Assembly Transport Cttee want an "immediate and sizeable reduction" in buses on Oxford Street. They've written the Mayor about his plans to pedestrianise Oxford St. www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/letter_to_mayor_-_oxford_street_final.pdfMeanwhile ... So we haven't worked out what to do for those with mobility issues. We will keep pandering to the taxi trade because we're rich enough to use taxis and s*d anyone else who might want to use a bus. They can walk - including in the pouring rain, howling gales and snow and ice. Oh and we especially don't give a d*mn if you need to travel at night on a weeknight when the tube's shut. We're sorry you have to trek from TCR to Marble Arch on shank's pony. I was under the impression that Regent Street would still be open to buses? I wouldn't think it any great hardship for most people to walk from Oxford Circus to TCR or Gloucester Place? Taxi ranks will probably be in side streets.
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Post by sid on Sept 5, 2016 9:52:00 GMT
The real winners are the rip-off rickshaws that WCC pledged to do something about but are still ambling about with little or no due care and attention. I dare predict we may see accidents in Oxford Street post-pedestrianisation because of these monstrosities. Taxis do indeed provide a service but are they really going to say to the elderly and handicapped "here's an expensive way to travel to Oxford Street, what's this 'freedom pass' thing? You want to use THAT instead of MONEY? AHAHAHAHA". And they already have an alternative method of transportation that should not need exploring. They are called 'buses'. Further evidence methinks that they care only for the wealthy as you mentioned snoggle . Let's have residents cars exempted while we are at it. And close the street completely to make way as a private landing strip for the D-list celebrities. (Which I wouldn't mind if it were Patsy and Eddie arriving for a shoot at Lacroix) Surely rickshaws will be banned from Oxford Street post pedestrianisation?
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Post by twobellstogo on Sept 5, 2016 10:06:00 GMT
I was under the impression that Regent Street would still be open to buses?. The traders on Regent Street are no fans of the bus either. It's still not been made clear if the pedestrian zone will cross Oxford Circus : if it does, goodbye buses in Regent Street.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 10:15:49 GMT
The real winners are the rip-off rickshaws that WCC pledged to do something about but are still ambling about with little or no due care and attention. I dare predict we may see accidents in Oxford Street post-pedestrianisation because of these monstrosities. Taxis do indeed provide a service but are they really going to say to the elderly and handicapped "here's an expensive way to travel to Oxford Street, what's this 'freedom pass' thing? You want to use THAT instead of MONEY? AHAHAHAHA". And they already have an alternative method of transportation that should not need exploring. They are called 'buses'. Further evidence methinks that they care only for the wealthy as you mentioned snoggle . Let's have residents cars exempted while we are at it. And close the street completely to make way as a private landing strip for the D-list celebrities. (Which I wouldn't mind if it were Patsy and Eddie arriving for a shoot at Lacroix) Surely rickshaws will be banned from Oxford Street post pedestrianisation? They are supposed to be banned now, IIRC they don't have passenger carrying licences or safety certificates. But the council have done nothing. That's why pedestrianisation won't make a blind bit of difference to them.
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Post by sid on Sept 5, 2016 10:22:37 GMT
Surely rickshaws will be banned from Oxford Street post pedestrianisation? They are supposed to be banned now, IIRC they don't have passenger carrying licences or safety certificates. But the council have done nothing. That's why pedestrianisation won't make a blind bit of difference to them. Well of course pedestrianisation will make a difference to them. Who said that they are supposed to be banned now?
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Post by snoggle on Sept 5, 2016 10:26:36 GMT
I was under the impression that Regent Street would still be open to buses? I wouldn't think it any great hardship for most people to walk from Oxford Circus to TCR or Gloucester Place? Taxi ranks will probably be in side streets. The letter says clearly that there needs to be overall traffic management plan. That plan should ensure neighbouring streets are not overloaded - I take that to include Regent St just as much as it might include Wigmore St or other E-W parallel roads. It is so reassuring to see that our transport system is to be designed on the basis of possibly avoiding "hardship" rather than offering services to and from places that people might reasonably wish to travel to. The issue here is one of choice - do you simply remove an entire mode of transport and thereby inconvenience who use it or do you retain options for people that are affordable and convenient? Taxis, minicabs and pedicabs are not affordable to everyone. Not everyone will want to walk everywhere and certainly not if they are laden with shopping and the weather is poor. I understand the environmental concerns people have but I fundamentally disagree with the damage that will be inflicted on the bus network and people's ability to travel by bus including at times when the tube / Crossrail will *never* be an option. I also suspect the plan is to retain access for bikes in a pedestrianised Oxford St. That means the wretched pedicabs will still be there. The T'port Cttee letter is notably silent on banning cycle access. You then have to ask how safe things will be for pedestrians if bikes are weaving in and out all over the place. Finally I expect pressure will build for the closure of Regent St and its pedestrianisation in due course. Then, if Crossrail 2 is built, we will have demands for Shaftesbury Avenue to be pedestrainised too (there is a proposed entrance to the CR2 TCR stn on S'bury Av). No bus network then as there'll be insufficient road capacity for them! I'm obviously hypothesising but once the precedent of Oxford St is established the same arguments will be deployed again and again.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 10:33:53 GMT
They are supposed to be banned now, IIRC they don't have passenger carrying licences or safety certificates. But the council have done nothing. That's why pedestrianisation won't make a blind bit of difference to them. Well of course pedestrianisation will make a difference to them. How so, would you care to explain? They already 'drive' with reckless abandon, ignorance or road rules (I've personally seen them make banned turns, go the wrong way up one-way streets, run red lights, ignore people at zebra crossings) and when Ox becomes pedestrianised it will be a vast open space for people to walk around. You really think these people[1] will think "I've broken all the rules of the road, but this is a step too far... I'll divert via the side roads even though I've already gotten this naive tourist's £45[2] for a six-minute ride, and delay myself looking for the next victim" [1] can't categorically state ALL rickshaw riders but I'm yet to hear of a good one. [2] not an exaggeration either, a German friend of mine was quoted this from Baker Street - Marble Arch!!
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Post by rmz19 on Sept 5, 2016 10:51:24 GMT
I honestly can't fathom how "innovative" changes can be made to bus routes along Oxford Street yet avoid large-scale diversions by rerouting them on surrounding roads. How will this be tackled? Unless a bridge of some sort will be miraculously built to transport buses above the West End, I don't see anything innovative about reducing buses by curtailing or withdrawing routes along Oxford Street - this is the only conclusion that can be logically made to this ridiculous proposition but it's by no means something I advocate.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 5, 2016 13:39:51 GMT
I don't expect Oxford Circus to be pedestrianised as I can't see the north south route being blocked off. What I see happening is some sort of speed table spread across the Oxford Circus X crossing being implemented instead. This happens in many town centres where the north south route is retained.
At the end of the day, it's the same old thing - the poorest people lose out.
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Post by sid on Sept 5, 2016 19:31:56 GMT
I really don't understand the constant negativity, it was inevitable that this was going to happen sooner or later and the situation is bad enough now at busy times without the masses that Crossrail is expected to bring to the area.
Bus routes along Oxford Street have been thinned out over recent years and remaining routes are often very lightly loaded. Yes a few people might be slightly inconvenienced but the same would apply to any other area that has been pedestrianised and they wouldn't have two underground railway lines as an alternative.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 5, 2016 22:31:59 GMT
I really don't understand the constant negativity, it was inevitable that this was going to happen sooner or later and the situation is bad enough now at busy times without the masses that Crossrail is expected to bring to the area. Bus routes along Oxford Street have been thinned out over recent years and remaining routes are often very lightly loaded. Yes a few people might be slightly inconvenienced but the same would apply to any other area that has been pedestrianised and they wouldn't have two underground railway lines as an alternative. It's simple enough. People are demanding bus reductions well in advance of 2018. That's unacceptable. There is no funding nor is there an agreed scheme for Oxford St pedestrianisation. There is no legal sign off from anyone. Boris talked about it for over 4 years and got nowhere. Anyone who thinks Mayor Khan can magically make Westminster City Council, whose street it is, do what he might want is living in cloud cuckoo land. They have the responsibility to balance a whole load of conflicting issues and they'll be responsible for doing the work. I wonder when the next council elections are? Oh yes, May 2018 - excellent timing. We don't have two underground railways today and we won't have them until Dec 2018. Even in 2018 Crossrail will not be operating a full service - that takes at least another year. The railway that is currently there is not accessible nor are there plans to make Oxford Circus or Marble Arch stations accessible at any time within the next decade never mind by 2018/9. Therefore it is wholly unreasonable to withdraw the accessible public transport available to everyone when there is no alternative. If WCC or TfL try to do this without a full and proper Equality Impact Assessment they'll find themselves on the wrong end of a legal challenge - guaranteed! Transport for All will ensure that happens. And just because you are seemingly happy with this policy really doesn't mean everyone else has to be.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 6, 2016 1:19:30 GMT
remaining routes are often very lightly loaded. Sorry but this statement is a myth. I accept some routes along Oxford Street have small loads but not all do - just recently, I've done the 7 and 98 along Oxford Street and both were very busy. These are not one offs either as over the years, I've seen squillions of packed buses along Oxford Street on a number of different routes. Pedestrianisation will create more issues than it's solves - traffic will simply not vanish into thin air but instead be plonked elsewhere making that place full of congestion and pollution whilst the poor & less able lose links left, right & centre because some moany residents will have heart attacks at the sight of buses passing their front door supposedly full of axe murders, thieves, etc. Meanwhile, the extremely overrated black taxi trade will be able to rob more peoples money in the process - absolutely criminal!
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Post by rmz19 on Sept 6, 2016 1:42:05 GMT
remaining routes are often very lightly loaded. Sorry but this statement is a myth. I accept some routes along Oxford Street have small loads but not all do - just recently, I've done the 7 and 98 along Oxford Street and both were very busy. These are not one offs either as over the years, I've seen squillions of packed buses along Oxford Street on a number of different routes. Pedestrianisation will create more issues than it's solves - traffic will simply not vanish into thin air but instead be plonked elsewhere making that place full of congestion and pollution whilst the poor & less able lose links left, right & centre because some moany residents will have heart attacks at the sight of buses passing their front door supposedly full of axe murders, thieves, etc. Meanwhile, the extremely overrated black taxi trade will be able to rob more peoples money in the process - absolutely criminal! And to top if off, every route has its quiet times which could easily be justified by reasons such as preceding buses taking the majority of loads, minimal headways, off peak journies etc. It's safe (and correct) to say every route in the West End has a healthy ridership, a frequency decrease would be the only logical option in the event of surplus PVR rather than axing routes completely.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2016 2:33:34 GMT
remaining routes are often very lightly loaded. Sorry but this statement is a myth. I accept some routes along Oxford Street have small loads but not all do - just recently, I've done the 7 and 98 along Oxford Street and both were very busy. These are not one offs either as over the years, I've seen squillions of packed buses along Oxford Street on a number of different routes. Pedestrianisation will create more issues than it's solves - traffic will simply not vanish into thin air but instead be plonked elsewhere making that place full of congestion and pollution whilst the poor & less able lose links left, right & centre because some moany residents will have heart attacks at the sight of buses passing their front door supposedly full of axe murders, thieves, etc. Meanwhile, the extremely overrated black taxi trade will be able to rob more peoples money in the process - absolutely criminal! I can honestly not think of the last lightly loaded bus I've seen along Oxford Street - bar the ones @rmz-19 has mentioned with preceding buses. Even the ones terminating at the Circus from the west and the Arch from the east. I'm still surprised at the masses leaving the 159 at MA considering it's generally considered the less busy side of Oxford Street. Even on weekday nights you see good use made of these.
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