Route 316

[CarpeDiemTraveller]

Hi everyone,


I decided to make this thread to ask about Route 316's conversion to double deckers on the 8th of October, so which buses the route will be getting, for example, but also to ask about the possible extension I found out about today which might or might not go ahead:

Route 316 retained by Metroline from Cricklewood (W) with existing double-decker buses introduced (PVR 17), plus extended to Staples Corner Geron Way via Edgware Road, Cricklewood(?). (8 October 2016)
 - The West London Bus Blog

Therefore, does this mean that the blinds will display something like "BRENT CROSS Staples Corner Retail Park"?

One more thing; I hope that the 316 will get some hybrids, partially at least, like E400H or E400H MMC, but I'm pretty certain that there will be mostly TAs serving the route until further notice.

[southlondonbus]

I would imagine it will be the 2010 TEs from the 113 once it gains TEHs from the 139. Before that possible TEHs from the 189 in the interim or formally convert the 32 to TEH and use the TAs as said.

[vjaska]

Sept 3, 2016 7:40:38 GMT CarpeDiemTraveller said:

Hi everyone,


I decided to make this thread to ask about Route 316's conversion to double deckers on the 8th of October, so which buses the route will be getting, for example, but also to ask about the possible extension I found out about today which might or might not go ahead:

Route 316 retained by Metroline from Cricklewood (W) with existing double-decker buses introduced (PVR 17), plus extended to Staples Corner Geron Way via Edgware Road, Cricklewood(?). (8 October 2016)
 - The West London Bus Blog

Therefore, does this mean that the blinds will display something like "BRENT CROSS Staples Corner Retail Park"?

One more thing; I hope that the 316 will get some hybrids, partially at least, like E400H or E400H MMC, but I'm pretty certain that there will be mostly TAs serving the route until further notice.

That's the first I've heard of the 316 being extended anywhere

Over the last few days, I've being seeing some posts on Facebook from trustworthy people stating that the 316 may not convert to deckers after all.

[CarpeDiemTraveller]

Sept 3, 2016 9:07:55 GMT vjaska said:

Sept 3, 2016 7:40:38 GMT CarpeDiemTraveller said:

Hi everyone,


I decided to make this thread to ask about Route 316's conversion to double deckers on the 8th of October, so which buses the route will be getting, for example, but also to ask about the possible extension I found out about today which might or might not go ahead:

Route 316 retained by Metroline from Cricklewood (W) with existing double-decker buses introduced (PVR 17), plus extended to Staples Corner Geron Way via Edgware Road, Cricklewood(?). (8 October 2016)
 - The West London Bus Blog

Therefore, does this mean that the blinds will display something like "BRENT CROSS Staples Corner Retail Park"?

One more thing; I hope that the 316 will get some hybrids, partially at least, like E400H or E400H MMC, but I'm pretty certain that there will be mostly TAs serving the route until further notice.

That's the first I've heard of the 316 being extended anywhere

Over the last few days, I've being seeing some posts on Facebook from trustworthy people stating that the 316 may not convert to deckers after all.

I'm hope the conversion goes ahead! Can you send me some examples if that's ok?

[Eastlondoner62]

Sept 3, 2016 9:07:55 GMT vjaska said:

Sept 3, 2016 7:40:38 GMT CarpeDiemTraveller said:

Hi everyone,


I decided to make this thread to ask about Route 316's conversion to double deckers on the 8th of October, so which buses the route will be getting, for example, but also to ask about the possible extension I found out about today which might or might not go ahead:

Route 316 retained by Metroline from Cricklewood (W) with existing double-decker buses introduced (PVR 17), plus extended to Staples Corner Geron Way via Edgware Road, Cricklewood(?). (8 October 2016)
 - The West London Bus Blog

Therefore, does this mean that the blinds will display something like "BRENT CROSS Staples Corner Retail Park"?

One more thing; I hope that the 316 will get some hybrids, partially at least, like E400H or E400H MMC, but I'm pretty certain that there will be mostly TAs serving the route until further notice.

That's the first I've heard of the 316 being extended anywhere

Over the last few days, I've being seeing some posts on Facebook from trustworthy people stating that the 316 may not convert to deckers after all

Ive heard similar as well, seems the communication between TfL and Metroline is not as good as it should be. 

[Green Kitten]

ITT for route 316

I believe this standing practice would have happened if the 316 was won to another operator - but since Metroline retained the route they can continue using Cricklewood garage as the stand.

According to the route record - I believe Geron Way was only a place to stand, not so that the nearby retail park would be served by a stop - the first/last stops would be on the Edgware Road. Looking at it now, Geron Way is quite a tight road anyway.

TfL and Metroline seem to be confused about the whole single/double decker situation - TfL's reply to a freedom of information stating double-deckers to run, yet reliable sources stating single-deckers to run. I guess we have to wait and see what happens in October, but I think it'll stay single-deck as awarded. 

That being said, I'd imagine DDs on the 316 would have been more common by now, or be more common in the near future, if it were to convert. As TEHs are now earmarked for the 113 I don't think there are any compliant DDs left to start the contract anyway.

[snoggle]

I've seen nothing official or unofficial but I am very sceptical the 316 will convert to double deckers. I know lots of people *want* it to but lack of any firm commentary from reliable sources makes me doubtful. I also don't see the point in such a short extension to what is effectively the middle of nowhere. Run to Brent Cross (oh dear, no space!) or up to Colindale or Brent Cross (Tesco) to do something useful but not Staples Corner.

Green Kitten - fascinating to see the route ITT detail. I'm always interested to see stuff like this and what TfL are after. Noteworthy that minimum vehicle length is 10.8m for single deckers, no double deck option is to be priced but variations on how hybrid vehicles might be paid for - annual or the incremental cost paid up front (didn't know TfL did this but can see why they might).

[thewintersoldier]

Staples corner is on the blinds for many routes but it's an in and out job with no stand being available. You were always instructed never to sit and wait at any stops if terminating there.

As far as I'm aware and I was speaking to a night driver at W this morning (we had a very lengthy chat about the 139 as you can imagine) he mentioned nothing about a 316 extension.

[thewintersoldier]

Sept 3, 2016 10:19:38 GMT snoggle said:

I've seen nothing official or unofficial but I am very sceptical the 316 will convert to double deckers. I know lots of people *want* it to but lack of any firm commentary from reliable sources makes me doubtful. I also don't see the point in such a short extension to what is effectively the middle of nowhere. Run to Brent Cross (oh dear, no space!) or up to Colindale or Brent Cross (Tesco) to do something useful but not Staples Corner.

Green Kitten - fascinating to see the route ITT detail. I'm always interested to see stuff like this and what TfL are after. Noteworthy that minimum vehicle length is 10.8m for single deckers, no double deck option is to be priced but variations on how hybrid vehicles might be paid for - annual or the incremental cost paid up front (didn't know TfL did this but can see why they might).

I agree. Running it to Geron way is pointless extension which serves no purpose other than to cut down the amount of 316's on stand in W, which is usually no more than two anyway. As a local resident, this extension would puzzle me, and if the traffic was to pile up on the A5 towards Brent Cross coming from Cricklewood as it does once In a while, the time it would take to take to go to Geron Way via staples Corner roundabout you'd lose a hell of a lot of time.

FYI the 316-esque thread, great idea.

[CarpeDiemTraveller]

Sept 3, 2016 10:18:02 GMT Green Kitten said:

ITT for route 316

I believe this standing practice would have happened if the 316 was won to another operator - but since Metroline retained the route they can continue using Cricklewood garage as the stand.

According to the route record - I believe Geron Way was only a place to stand, not so that the nearby retail park would be served by a stop - the first/last stops would be on the Edgware Road. Looking at it now, Geron Way is quite a tight road anyway.

TfL and Metroline seem to be confused about the whole single/double decker situation - TfL's reply to a freedom of information stating double-deckers to run, yet reliable sources stating single-deckers to run. I guess we have to wait and see what happens in October, but I think it'll stay single-deck as awarded. 

That being said, I'd imagine DDs on the 316 would have been more common by now, or be more common in the near future, if it were to convert. As TEHs are now earmarked for the 113 I don't think there are any compliant DDs left to start the contract anyway.

Thanks, the link is very helpful, but there is nothing about a double deck conversion, instead just longer single deck buses with only one extra bay of seats and extra standing space.

[Eastlondoner62]

The ITT issue does show the buses are to be extended to Staples Corner and are not to continue standing in Cricklewood garage, but I haven't seen this publicised by TfL anywhere.

[westhamgeezer]

Sept 3, 2016 10:43:37 GMT Eastlondoner62 said:

The ITT issue does show the buses are to be extended to Staples Corner and are not to continue standing in Cricklewood garage, but I haven't seen this publicised by TfL anywhere.

The ITT possibly/probadly shows this to enable another operator to bid and to avoid standing on private premises of another company. I would think it likely that metroline would submit a compliant bid and a non-complient (termimating at cricklewood bdy & standing at the garage, therefore cheaper) bid and let tfl take their choice. I know this is the case where other routes terminate at garages.

Sept 3, 2016 10:19:38 GMT snoggle said:

I've seen nothing official or unofficial but I am very sceptical the 316 will convert to double deckers. I know lots of people *want* it to but lack of any firm commentary from reliable sources makes me doubtful. I also don't see the point in such a short extension to what is effectively the middle of nowhere. Run to Brent Cross (oh dear, no space!) or up to Colindale or Brent Cross (Tesco) to do something useful but not Staples Corner.

Green Kitten - fascinating to see the route ITT detail. I'm always interested to see stuff like this and what TfL are after. Noteworthy that minimum vehicle length is 10.8m for single deckers, no double deck option is to be priced but variations on how hybrid vehicles might be paid for - annual or the incremental cost paid up front (didn't know TfL did this but can see why they might).

[Deleted]

Following on from what thewintersoldier said, the White City end will suffer due to staples corner!

[COBO]

Sept 3, 2016 8:47:32 GMT southlondonbus said:

I would imagine it will be the 2010 TEs from the 113 once it gains TEHs from the 139. Before that possible TEHs from the 189 in the interim or formally convert the 32 to TEH and use the TAs as said.

The 113 doesn't use 2010 TEs.

[COBO]

I doubt that the 316 is going to get double deckers.