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Post by londonbusboy on Sept 20, 2016 6:52:14 GMT
So has anyone successfully impersonated a frog or a rabbit and "hopped" and saved their second bus fare? Any feedback from the drivers on the forum about whether people are already moaning about connecting buses being late and not getting a free second fare? I've had no problems what so ever
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Post by snoggle on Oct 20, 2016 15:44:53 GMT
Article on Londonist about the most popular routes for the Hopper ticket. Shock horror they are all busy, high frequency radial or orbital routes. Interesting that we're at 10,000,000 "hops" within 6 weeks of launch which is completely off the scale compared to original estimates. If you take the parameters set out in the Mayoral decision paper (quote below) then 100,000 people per day would benefit giving 4.2m in 6 weeks. We're running at approx 2.5 times that estimate. londonist.com/2016/10/london-s-most-popular-hopper-bus-routes-have-been-revealedI did a little bit of analysis on my bus trips since 12 Sept. I don't use PAYG so this is a notional analysis. I reckon many of my local trips would have triggered a Hopper discount saving me £21 (14 fares).
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Post by danorak on Oct 21, 2016 12:49:13 GMT
Although this is interesting, it's another one of those pieces of undigested raw data that raises more questions than it answers. Are these routes getting more Hopper fares because of their length and frequency? What routes are people connecting to and from? Does it suggest that the network is not meeting the demand for certain direct journeys? We've discussed the 53 many times before - is this on the list because Horse Guards is too far short of where people want to go?
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Post by snoggle on Oct 21, 2016 14:28:04 GMT
Although this is interesting, it's another one of those pieces of undigested raw data that raises more questions than it answers. Are these routes getting more Hopper fares because of their length and frequency? What routes are people connecting to and from? Does it suggest that the network is not meeting the demand for certain direct journeys? We've discussed the 53 many times before - is this on the list because Horse Guards is too far short of where people want to go? I am sure length and high frequency have something to do with it. The fact they all serve a huge range of stations, town centres, shops and other facilities will be another. I doubt TfL will issue information about how many are changing where and to / from what routes. That's potentially a big load of data and it still won't tell you very much unless you know where people ultimately alight - something TfL don't know but may be able to infer from an individual's journey pattern. You won't be able to answer that question about the 53 because people could change at a whole load of stops to other services that may or may not run on from Whitehall to where the 53 used to go or indeed to somewhere where the 53 has never run! People may also change at different places on outward and return trips to be more certain of obtaining the Hopper discount. Masses and masses of complication when you stop to consider even a few aspects of the data. We've not even 8 weeks in to the Hopper scheme so TfL won't even have any anonymized Oyster / Contactless data to work with to try to spot revised journey patterns that could then be released. They've obviously done some high level stuff but I doubt they could release any more detail because you'd be dealing with potentially identifiable personal data (very remote I know but it must be an issue for TfL).
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Post by mondraker275 on Oct 22, 2016 8:22:03 GMT
I benefited from the hopper several times already and it is a nice feature. However, it is very difficult to distinguish those who have saved money. For example, recently, I traveled all day on buses. I technically on the stats had two 'hopper journeys' for free, however, as I continually used the bus I saved no money as I reached the cap on my 5th journey. Also, whereas previously I may have taken a bus that takes me close to my destination that I might walk the rest, I now just take another bus for a few stops. Technically another free journey but I probably would have walked and therefore saved nothing.
It will be interesting to see any further in depth analysis.
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Post by abc on Oct 27, 2016 9:51:13 GMT
I am one of the people who take 2 buses to get to work. Even if I didn't have a bus pass, most days I do take a third bus in order to get more intermediate stops that are served by more buses that could take me to my destination.
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Post by snoggle on Mar 13, 2017 23:21:18 GMT
Mayoral press release about 50m Hopper journeys milestone to be reached this week. www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/making-bus-travel-cheaper-for-millionsA few snippets in the release - Brent Cross Shopping Centre is the most popular place to "hop". - Route 18 has most hopper trips where route 18 is the route "hopped" on to - i.e. 2nd leg. - Routes 25 and 73 also popular to hop on to. No great shock with these routes given their frequency, patronage and length.
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Post by mondraker275 on Mar 14, 2017 8:59:36 GMT
Mayoral press release about 50m Hopper journeys milestone to be reached this week. www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/making-bus-travel-cheaper-for-millionsA few snippets in the release - Brent Cross Shopping Centre is the most popular place to "hop". - Route 18 has most hopper trips where route 18 is the route "hopped" on to - i.e. 2nd leg. - Routes 25 and 73 also popular to hop on to. No great shock with these routes given their frequency, patronage and length. Not a great accolade for Brent Cross Shopping Centre. It seems that passengers take the bus there and then dont spend that long shopping and then they are gone! From my own experience, I have only spent 10 minutes there. But on the other hand, I dont like shopping at all.
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Post by snoggle on Mar 14, 2017 11:36:20 GMT
Mayoral press release about 50m Hopper journeys milestone to be reached this week. www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/making-bus-travel-cheaper-for-millionsA few snippets in the release - Brent Cross Shopping Centre is the most popular place to "hop". - Route 18 has most hopper trips where route 18 is the route "hopped" on to - i.e. 2nd leg. - Routes 25 and 73 also popular to hop on to. No great shock with these routes given their frequency, patronage and length. Not a great accolade for Brent Cross Shopping Centre. It seems that passengers take the bus there and then dont spend that long shopping and then they are gone! From my own experience, I have only spent 10 minutes there. But on the other hand, I dont like shopping at all. I don't think it reflects on the shopping centre's qualities. It is more a reflection of the wide spread of routes converging at one interchange point that facilitates a lot of journey options.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 13, 2017 14:31:43 GMT
Caroline Pidegon has got a response to a FOI about the most popular routes for "Hopper" tickets. www.mayorwatch.co.uk/revealed-the-most-popular-routes-for-londons-new-hopper-bus-ticket/The article has a scrollable list of routes and the number of Hopped jnys per route during Feb 2017. Unfortunately TfL have said they won't be regularly publishing such data. Suspect they did it this time because Mrs Pidgeon made the request. Not overly surprised to see that generally busy routes feature near the top of the list nor shocked to see longish "orbital" outer London routes also featuring like the 140, 93, 207, 123, 183, 5 etc. I've done a little spreadsheet with the usage data on it, added route details and a calculated average hops per day (total / 28) Attachment Deleted
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Post by nickfreckle on Apr 19, 2017 17:57:37 GMT
So...that's verging on what, £90 million a year in lost revenue? That's a LOT of money.
Mayor of London would go nuts if anyone outside of TFL cut £90 million from their budget - and yet he's done it himself. The mind boggles. Actually, I'd go so far to say 'what an idiot'.
I do not agree one bit with this hoppa fare. Loss of revenue, contracts being lost and awarded solely on price, drivers getting shafted with low pay rises and rubbish starting pay.
It's a joke.
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Post by sid on Apr 19, 2017 18:23:41 GMT
So...that's verging on what, £90 million a year in lost revenue? That's a LOT of money. Mayor of London would go nuts if anyone outside of TFL cut £90 million from their budget - and yet he's done it himself. The mind boggles. Actually, I'd go so far to say 'what an idiot'. I do not agree one bit with this hoppa fare. Loss of revenue, contracts being lost and awarded solely on price, drivers getting shafted with low pay rises and rubbish starting pay. It's a joke. I'm fairly open minded about the whole idea but a lot of people have been calling for it for a long time but as you say £90m is a lot of money. Presumably they were anticipating a substantial drop in revenue? I'm not necessarily sticking up for the mayor but I think he would have been dammed either way?
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Post by nickfreckle on Apr 19, 2017 19:41:06 GMT
I'm not too sure he had to do anything to be honest. It's a populist decision that I don't think was thought through particularly well in my humble opinion. Fares are capped at £4.50 for the day anyway - which outside of London would barely get you a single journey of a few miles. Add that to the fare freeze, I genuinely think it will end up biting him in the backside.
Maybe if he had increased fares to say £2, but added the hoppa fare also, so in effect a quid a journey, the additional revenue from the people that do only take one journey would have reduced the massive drop in revenue that the 'free' journeys has caused.
A very ill thought out policy.
He banged on that he is the son of a bus driver, yet does something that puts pressure on the bus companies bottom lines - which ultimately affects one thing - the drivers pay as that's the easiest place to save money. Son of a bus driver? Son of a b**** more like...
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Post by snoggle on Apr 19, 2017 20:19:09 GMT
So...that's verging on what, £90 million a year in lost revenue? That's a LOT of money. Mayor of London would go nuts if anyone outside of TFL cut £90 million from their budget - and yet he's done it himself. The mind boggles. Actually, I'd go so far to say 'what an idiot'. I do not agree one bit with this hoppa fare. Loss of revenue, contracts being lost and awarded solely on price, drivers getting shafted with low pay rises and rubbish starting pay. It's a joke. Nice rant but no one has said the cost is £90m per annum. The question has been raised in Mayor's Questions more than once and the cost is estimated at £30m and that has not changed despite the fact that usage has been somewhat higher than expected. Part of the reason for this is that each use of the Hopper may not result in revenue loss. I've explained this before but here goes. Person travels A to B regularly. They pay £1.50 on a through bus. Post Hopper introduction they go A to C then C to B with a Hopper ticket using frequent services rather than wait for the through bus. Revenue loss is nil in this case because the person has still paid £1.50. There are undoubtedly a myriad of similar examples as well as people who travel now that didn't before. Yes there will also be plenty of instances too where in the past people would have paid £3 overall rather than £1.50 they pay now. TfL are on the record, several months ago, as saying that the situation with Hopper usage was fluid and that patterns of usage and their impact were not clear. We are only a few months further on and I expect TfL are still studying things. On the other points then yes revenue is down but that's because patronage is down for all sorts of reasons - some in TfL's control, some not. The Hopper fare cost was funded by efficiencies elsewhere in the TfL Budget. Contracts have long been awarded on price as it's the key determinant of value for money and is the reason why politicians have adopted compulsory competitive tendering. Pressure on pay has been there for a decade. The current Mayor has taken steps to stabilise pay levels and to establish common starter rates and to allow staff to transfer without loss of pay. You didn't get any of that under the 8 year tenure of Mr Johnson. I understand you're p*ssed off but some of the published info and actions of the current Mayor contradict some of what you've said.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 19, 2017 20:21:40 GMT
I'm not too sure he had to do anything to be honest. It's a populist decision that I don't think was thought through particularly well in my humble opinion. Fares are capped at £4.50 for the day anyway - which outside of London would barely get you a single journey of a few miles. Add that to the fare freeze, I genuinely think it will end up biting him in the backside. Maybe if he had increased fares to say £2, but added the hoppa fare also, so in effect a quid a journey, the additional revenue from the people that do only take one journey would have reduced the massive drop in revenue that the 'free' journeys has caused. A very ill thought out policy. He banged on that he is the son of a bus driver, yet does something that puts pressure on the bus companies bottom lines - which ultimately affects one thing - the drivers pay as that's the easiest place to save money. Son of a bus driver? Son of a b**** more like... As I said before your rants are not born out by the facts I'm afraid. There is no evidence in the public domain that the Hopper fare has caused a revenue loss.
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