|
Post by COBO on Oct 10, 2016 19:30:59 GMT
But do you think that the 350 could cope with single deckers? I have a feeling that the U3 might go double deck next year. Well, it did in the past (with an additional DD journey in Peaks) but that was with a 12min frequency. With passengers having the luxury of double deckers on a 12min frequency over the last 4 or so years, downgrading it to a 20min single decker service will make it a unattractive travel option, especially to those who require the Airport. I suppose, there's a number of options that TfL could go with: A-Keep it as it is B- 12min freq, Single Deck C- 15min freq, Double Deck D- 15min freq, Single Deck E- 20min freq, Double Deck F- 20min freq, Single Deck I would hope that it stays as option A, failing that then option D, even option E, however, as TfL always seem to get what they want, we'll see option F It tough one because even though it is empty most of time but it can be busy during the peak times. I would say single deck it but have a double deck working during the peak times and have run every 12 mins during the day.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Oct 10, 2016 19:42:55 GMT
But do you think that the 350 could cope with single deckers? I have a feeling that the U3 might go double deck next year. Well, it did in the past (with an additional DD journey in Peaks) but that was with a 12min frequency. With passengers having the luxury of double deckers on a 12min frequency over the last 4 or so years, downgrading it to a 20min single decker service will make it a unattractive travel option, especially to those who require the Airport. I suppose, there's a number of options that TfL could go with: A-Keep it as it is B- 12min freq, Single Deck C- 15min freq, Double Deck D- 15min freq, Single Deck E- 20min freq, Double Deck F- 20min freq, Single Deck I would hope that it stays as option A, failing that then option D, even option E, however, as TfL always seem to get what they want, we'll see option F Option E would be my preferred choice as I think every 12 minutes would be more suited to single deck operation personally. I also agree that the U3 would be my choice for a double deck conversion rather than the U5. I'd also say the U1 could be another candidate as well?
|
|
|
Post by M1199 on Oct 10, 2016 19:56:03 GMT
Well, it did in the past (with an additional DD journey in Peaks) but that was with a 12min frequency. With passengers having the luxury of double deckers on a 12min frequency over the last 4 or so years, downgrading it to a 20min single decker service will make it a unattractive travel option, especially to those who require the Airport. I suppose, there's a number of options that TfL could go with: A-Keep it as it is B- 12min freq, Single Deck C- 15min freq, Double Deck D- 15min freq, Single Deck E- 20min freq, Double Deck F- 20min freq, Single Deck I would hope that it stays as option A, failing that then option D, even option E, however, as TfL always seem to get what they want, we'll see option F It tough one because even though it is empty most of time but it can be busy during the peak times. I would say single deck it but have a double deck working during the peak times and have run every 12 mins during the day. Plus you have the shift change overs for Airport staff.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Oct 10, 2016 20:13:52 GMT
I suppose, there's a number of options that TfL could go with: A-Keep it as it is B- 12min freq, Single Deck C- 15min freq, Double Deck D- 15min freq, Single Deck E- 20min freq, Double Deck F- 20min freq, Single Deck I would hope that it stays as option A, failing that then option D, even option E, however, as TfL always seem to get what they want, we'll see option F I am shocked, nay appalled, that you could say such a cynical thing about TfL.
|
|
|
Post by SN17MOA on Oct 10, 2016 20:34:47 GMT
But do you think that the 350 could cope with single deckers? I have a feeling that the U3 might go double deck next year. Well, it did in the past (with an additional DD journey in Peaks) but that was with a 12min frequency. With passengers having the luxury of double deckers on a 12min frequency over the last 4 or so years, downgrading it to a 20min single decker service will make it a unattractive travel option, especially to those who require the Airport. I suppose, there's a number of options that TfL could go with: A-Keep it as it is B- 12min freq, Single Deck C- 15min freq, Double Deck D- 15min freq, Single Deck E- 20min freq, Double Deck F- 20min freq, Single Deck I would hope that it stays as option A, failing that then option D, even option E, however, as TfL always seem to get what they want, we'll see option F Option E would be my preferred choice. But Option C could do well during peaks. Option F would just be a downfall for people especially during peaks hours just as you said. The U3 would defiantly be my choice for a double deck conversion. But I Guess that the U1 could also use a handful of Double decker's to help out the crowds along the route. Not a complete Double deck conversion but a mix operation.
|
|
|
Post by enviroPB on Oct 12, 2016 14:40:26 GMT
I slogged to Brunel university on Monday night, and decided to stop the monotony of the 427/607 and got the 222 up. Boy that route is thrashed at nights!! But that's not the point; the point is at 22:45 I spotted a 350 to Hayes & Harlington at West Drayton and was quite pleasantly surprised the bus was nearly full! For a double decker to be filled late at night (without being delayed) is rather remarkable...in the suburbs of zone 6 as well is still a mean feat. I have never ridden the route and this was indeed the first time I saw a bus on the 350, but from this observation alone, it seems rather barbaric to force all those passengers on a single deck....and if that was at night, think about how dreadful it'll be during the day! I hate the guise of TfL 'remedying' the bus network in preparation for a service that's years to come (Crossrail through-trains by late 2018, early 2019) by doing some daft changes. I struggle to see if demand for an area increases, that you reduce the frequency & capacity of a bus route [like the 350].
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Oct 12, 2016 20:09:44 GMT
I slogged to Brunel university on Monday night, and decided to stop the monotony of the 427/607 and got the 222 up. Boy that route is thrashed at nights!! But that's not the point; the point is at 22:45 I spotted a 350 to Hayes & Harlington at West Drayton and was quite pleasantly surprised the bus was nearly full! For a double decker to be filled late at night (without being delayed) is rather remarkable...in the suburbs of zone 6 as well is still a mean feat. I have never ridden the route and this was indeed the first time I saw a bus on the 350, but from this observation alone, it seems rather barbaric to force all those passengers on a single deck....and if that was at night, think about how dreadful it'll be during the day! I hate the guise of TfL 'remedying' the bus network in preparation for a service that's years to come (Crossrail through-trains by late 2018, early 2019) by doing some daft changes. I struggle to see if demand for an area increases, that you reduce the frequency & capacity of a bus route [like the 350]. I suspect that what you witnessed on the 350 is the effect of shift changes at Heathrow. Clearly TfL need to be able to cater for that and taking double deckers off is a bit stupid if you're getting capacity loads. The other issue is that Crossrail is likely to retain a premium fare into Heathrow so poorer paid workers will still be using buses to access Crossrail at West Drayton or Hayes. They are also cutting 1 bph in the evening on the 350 which makes it even less attractive for workers. Downgrading capacity from T5 to West Drayton is a tad dumb.
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Oct 12, 2016 20:41:36 GMT
It's similar to the 199 into Canada water. No doubt useful but but a link to elephant and south bermodsey from Lewisham aswell as reducing capacity through south bermondsey which still lacks rail links really.
|
|
|
Post by Green Kitten on Oct 13, 2016 6:57:27 GMT
Snoggle raises a good point about the Heathrow part of Crossrail being especially expensive. A Heathrow link will still be useful by the cheaper option of the bus - and besides West Drayton - Heathrow T5 won't be a direct journey by train anyway. More exciting things could be done with the 350, an extension from the north end of the route for instance (I'd say Southall, but there can't be any stand space left and the 482 already provides such a link). Reducing the frequency is a huge no-no, especially to every 30 minutes on Sundays. Seeing as Abellio put single-decks on the 350 every day though, (including 8.8m single door single decks), perhaps it was a sign of things to come? The U5 is the busiest U (after the U4 and U3) - but I'd say the U3 has more of a case of being converted due to its link to Heathrow. There's a reason Metroline put spare deckers on the U3 much more often than the U5 (when all their U routes were at UX). Perhaps the decking of the U3 will provide more of a case of reducing the capacity of the 350! Like TfL chose the wrong E to convert, I think they chose the wrong U. As for the U1, surely a frequency increase to every 12 or 10 minutes should help things out. Also, if everything works to TfL's ultimate design, if Abellio grab the U5, I think they may as well just swap out the MMCs to fully convert the 344
|
|
|
Post by snowman on Oct 13, 2016 8:36:26 GMT
Snoggle raises a good point about the Heathrow part of Crossrail being especially expensive. A Heathrow link will still be useful by the cheaper option of the bus - and besides West Drayton - Heathrow T5 won't be a direct journey by train anyway. More exciting things could be done with the 350, an extension from the north end of the route for instance (I'd say Southall, but there can't be any stand space left and the 482 already provides such a link). Reducing the frequency is a huge no-no, especially to every 30 minutes on Sundays. Seeing as Abellio put single-decks on the 350 every day though, (including 8.8m single door single decks), perhaps it was a sign of things to come? The U5 is the busiest U (after the U4 and U3) - but I'd say the U3 has more of a case of being converted due to its link to Heathrow. There's a reason Metroline put spare deckers on the U3 much more often than the U5 (when all their U routes were at UX). Perhaps the decking of the U3 will provide more of a case of reducing the capacity of the 350! Like TfL chose the wrong E to convert, I think they chose the wrong U. As for the U1, surely a frequency increase to every 12 or 10 minutes should help things out. Also, if everything works to TfL's ultimate design, if Abellio grab the U5, I think they may as well just swap out the MMCs to fully convert the 344 Crossrail isn't planned to go to Heathrow T5 so a T5 user would need to change somewhere anyway. Not sure about this but the T2+T3 to T5 section might be free on Heathrow Express so would just need to wait on same platform at Heathrow Central similar to the arrangement at Hatton Cross on tube for T4 if you need other terminal to next train
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Oct 13, 2016 12:49:21 GMT
Not sure about this but the T2+T3 to T5 section might be free on Heathrow Express so would just need to wait on same platform at Heathrow Central similar to the arrangement at Hatton Cross on tube for T4 if you need other terminal to next train All inter-terminal travel on HEX and HConnect is free at all times so people would just need to change trains if travelling from T5 and wanting the slower stopping service.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2016 16:37:53 GMT
Not sure about this but the T2+T3 to T5 section might be free on Heathrow Express so would just need to wait on same platform at Heathrow Central similar to the arrangement at Hatton Cross on tube for T4 if you need other terminal to next train All inter-terminal travel on HEX and HConnect is free at all times so people would just need to change trains if travelling from T5 and wanting the slower stopping service. Freeflow Heathrow I believe it was called once, I remember the logos on the buses!
|
|
|
Post by ben on Oct 24, 2016 22:29:01 GMT
Just a few points.
As much as I'd personally like to see deckers regularly on the U1, in reality what would be more useful is a frequency boost to 5/6bph.
One must wonder whether TfL are not just trying to anticipate future travel demand and pattern but also influence them - the goal of trying to collect and reorganise routes according to their usage makes complete sense; perhaps what we cant see is that the travel patterns are such that people are able to choose alternative services or routes but for convenience sake so far have/are not? Maybe TfL are gambling that such a change is more or less feasible, and will use which ever route has the higher frequency?
|
|
|
Post by M1199 on Dec 12, 2016 20:24:02 GMT
So I caught VP605 earlier this lunchtime from Hayes all the way into Uxbridge, loadings were just as I thought, minimal. Throughout the whole journey, there only was 3 up top (myself included) Now I know it wasn't during the peaks but I thought, that with Xmas just round the corner, the route may of been a bit more busier. I even heard at least 2 passengers say they didn't want to go upstairs!
Still think that double deckers are going to be a wasted asset on the U5, saying that I hope 9821 clings on in service and manages to make it onto the route!
Thinking about it now, TfL could of kept the route single deck and had a couple of additional peak hour/school DD journeys (like with the U3)
|
|
|
Post by routew15 on Jan 26, 2017 15:17:53 GMT
|
|