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Post by enviroPB on Nov 28, 2016 14:21:54 GMT
I think eventually it will close aswell. I had thought aswell that it would be just Selfridges to Oxford Circus but it seems it's the whole thing. That's going to royally bugger coach services in & out of Victoria heading north. At the moment most services head up to Finchley Road via Baker Street to find the M1. It doesn't paint a pretty picture if the 3 lane road of Baker Street/Gloucester Place was in effect, made redundant with all the displaced traffic gridlocking Edgware Road.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 28, 2016 14:44:58 GMT
I think eventually it will close aswell. I had thought aswell that it would be just Selfridges to Oxford Circus but it seems it's the whole thing. After a bit of Googling, I found what Val Shawcross said about pedestrianisation on the Fitzrovia Residents Association website: news.fitzrovia.org.uk/2016/07/25/what-deputy-mayor-valerie-shawcross-said-about-pedestrianisation-of-oxford-street/The key bit: "The outline proposal that we are working with the local partners on now is basically to get Oxford Street pedestrianised in three tranches. This is all provisional and it is very early days, but it would mean getting the two big tranches – Oxford Street East from the new Crossrail station into Oxford Circus first and Oxford Street West stopping just short of Marble Arch second, which would be over three quarters of Oxford Street – done before 2020. The last bit at the Marble Arch end going up to Marble Arch Station is a bit more complex and would probably fall over into the post-election period, but the proposal is to go from Marble Arch to Tottenham Court Road. We have been talking about that enhanced ambition to all of the partners in there and of course, principally, Westminster Council, whose road it is." Maybe that's why both Baker Street & Gloucester Place are going two way as both will effectively end up as no through roads pretty much. I'd always assumed that small section just before Marble Arch would remain open.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 28, 2016 21:41:27 GMT
After a bit of Googling, I found what Val Shawcross said about pedestrianisation on the Fitzrovia Residents Association website: news.fitzrovia.org.uk/2016/07/25/what-deputy-mayor-valerie-shawcross-said-about-pedestrianisation-of-oxford-street/The key bit: "The outline proposal that we are working with the local partners on now is basically to get Oxford Street pedestrianised in three tranches. This is all provisional and it is very early days, but it would mean getting the two big tranches – Oxford Street East from the new Crossrail station into Oxford Circus first and Oxford Street West stopping just short of Marble Arch second, which would be over three quarters of Oxford Street – done before 2020. The last bit at the Marble Arch end going up to Marble Arch Station is a bit more complex and would probably fall over into the post-election period, but the proposal is to go from Marble Arch to Tottenham Court Road. We have been talking about that enhanced ambition to all of the partners in there and of course, principally, Westminster Council, whose road it is." Maybe that's why both Baker Street & Gloucester Place are going two way as both will effectively end up as no through roads pretty much. I'd always assumed that small section just before Marble Arch would remain open. It's why I anticipate Portman Square effectively becoming a massive bus stand because so many routes will have to turn there. I am slightly surprised that people here didn't appreciate that the aim is to pedestrianise from Marble Arch to TCR. And that is just the start so far as campaigners are concerned. They want all the side streets and then the parallel streets pedestrianised too so there are no motor vehicles in Soho or in Fitzrovia and very few in Mayfair. This is why people should not be just "accepting" all this as inevitable because campaigners see it as the first domino being toppled over and then all the rest will follow. Worth remembering that Regent St will be in their sights and if Crossrail 2 is built that will mean people will want Shaftesbury Avenue pedestrianised in the late 2020s.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 28, 2016 22:33:26 GMT
ITV London had a piece on the proposals which focused mostly on the air quality in Oxford Street. I have no doubt that taxis will move in to take any roadspace freed up in Oxford Street, until pedestrianisation anyway. Air quality wise, how does a black cab compare to a hybrid bus? I have a feeling many of the black cabs could be worst than buses, but would never get the flack due to the flamboyant nature of the way cabbies act. Plus those that are calling for the buses to be withdrawn are avid users of the taxis. Most of the taxis are old, even if they are retrofitted with other kit smoke a lot are driven from the outskirts of London and beyond to ply trade in central London. They are very dated in terms of interior/creature comforts compared to uber cars. They lack big time in terms of electric or hybrid, it must be less than 1% Metrocab have just released a hybrid version, but I have only seen ONE on the street in the past year.
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Post by westhamgeezer on Nov 28, 2016 22:41:17 GMT
I think eventually it will close aswell. I had thought aswell that it would be just Selfridges to Oxford Circus but it seems it's the whole thing. That's going to royally bugger coach services in & out of Victoria heading north. At the moment most services head up to Finchley Road via Baker Street to find the M1. It doesn't paint a pretty picture if the 3 lane road of Baker Street/Gloucester Place was in effect, made redundant with all the displaced traffic gridlocking Edgware Road. Well that will probably be the catalyst for closing Victoria coach station and setting up the other smaller hubs around London
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Post by snoggle on Nov 28, 2016 22:55:34 GMT
That's going to royally bugger coach services in & out of Victoria heading north. At the moment most services head up to Finchley Road via Baker Street to find the M1. It doesn't paint a pretty picture if the 3 lane road of Baker Street/Gloucester Place was in effect, made redundant with all the displaced traffic gridlocking Edgware Road. Well that will probably be the catalyst for closing Victoria coach station and setting up the other smaller hubs around London I was reading something the other day about planned remedial works to the Westway which listed associated initiatives. The relocation of Victoria Coach Station was in the list so it looks like TfL are giving it consideration. Para 4.12 of the document below. content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-161130-06-p1-structures-and-tunnels.pdf
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Post by SILENCED on Nov 28, 2016 23:57:23 GMT
ITV London had a piece on the proposals which focused mostly on the air quality in Oxford Street. I have no doubt that taxis will move in to take any roadspace freed up in Oxford Street, until pedestrianisation anyway. Air quality wise, how does a black cab compare to a hybrid bus? I have a feeling many of the black cabs could be worst than buses, but would never get the flack due to the flamboyant nature of the way cabbies act. Plus those that are calling for the buses to be withdrawn are avid users of the taxis. Most of the taxis are old, even if they are retrofitted with other kit smoke a lot are driven from the outskirts of London and beyond to ply trade in central London. They are very dated in terms of interior/creature comforts compared to uber cars. They lack big time in terms of electric or hybrid, it must be less than 1% Metrocab have just released a hybrid version, but I have only seen ONE on the street in the past year. New Black Cabs must be hybrid from 1 Jan 2018 and emission free from 1 Jan 2020
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 8:41:45 GMT
Maybe that's why both Baker Street & Gloucester Place are going two way as both will effectively end up as no through roads pretty much. I'd always assumed that small section just before Marble Arch would remain open. It's why I anticipate Portman Square effectively becoming a massive bus stand because so many routes will have to turn there. I am slightly surprised that people here didn't appreciate that the aim is to pedestrianise from Marble Arch to TCR. And that is just the start so far as campaigners are concerned. They want all the side streets and then the parallel streets pedestrianised too so there are no motor vehicles in Soho or in Fitzrovia and very few in Mayfair. This is why people should not be just "accepting" all this as inevitable because campaigners see it as the first domino being toppled over and then all the rest will follow. Worth remembering that Regent St will be in their sights and if Crossrail 2 is built that will mean people will want Shaftesbury Avenue pedestrianised in the late 2020s. How will the chauffeurs of the rich and famous deposit and collect their clients outside their favourite shops ? ! I love howthis lot seem to be pressing ahead , almost dictoral in their master plans and TfL running behind them like their obedient lap dog. The whole plan is ridiculous , far too extreme and will cause further traffic mayhem.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 8:46:05 GMT
The other interesting side effect of these changes will be to make any tube strikes vastly more impactful. By stripping out bus capacity and breaking links TfL will remove network resilience in the event of strikes or worse. Clearly you don't plan your network just in case of a tube strike but we know how horrendous it gets for people *now* when there is a strike. Imagine how marvellous it will be when these changes have gone through? It is also worth bearing in mind that the Central area stations on Crossrail are all linked to the adjacent tube stations so a LU strike will most likely knock out Crossrail's central section as well so Crossrail won't be the salvation of the tube. So cut the buses and hand the RMT and ASLEF much more power - sounds like a good plan to me. Whati if CROSS RAIL goes on strike ?
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Post by snoggle on Nov 29, 2016 10:19:14 GMT
The other interesting side effect of these changes will be to make any tube strikes vastly more impactful. By stripping out bus capacity and breaking links TfL will remove network resilience in the event of strikes or worse. Clearly you don't plan your network just in case of a tube strike but we know how horrendous it gets for people *now* when there is a strike. Imagine how marvellous it will be when these changes have gone through? It is also worth bearing in mind that the Central area stations on Crossrail are all linked to the adjacent tube stations so a LU strike will most likely knock out Crossrail's central section as well so Crossrail won't be the salvation of the tube. So cut the buses and hand the RMT and ASLEF much more power - sounds like a good plan to me. Whati if CROSS RAIL goes on strike ? I assume there will be no trains and the Crossrail bits of the enlarged stns will be gated off. There is usually some capability to seal off parts of large complexes from one another - especially with the Night Tube where more and more gates and barriers have been installed to seal off non operational areas.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 29, 2016 11:21:33 GMT
London Travelwatch are getting a presentation from TfL now on the bus chance proposals. One little snippet that's emerged. Note that next phase of changes likely for consultation in April next year.
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Post by riverside on Nov 29, 2016 11:21:38 GMT
What a legacy all this will be for The Year of the Bus that TfL celebrated not so long ago. It now seems that all those buses were lined up in Regent Street because in the not too distant future the sight of London red buses against the background of the celebrated parts of Central London will become history. The London red bus has become an icon but it is admired not just for its own design but for being an integral part of the London tourist landscape. Maybe in the future when the British tourist authorities are advertising abroad the delights of London they will have pictures of buses in say Hammersmith, Edgware or Catford!
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Post by sid on Nov 29, 2016 12:04:28 GMT
What a legacy all this will be for The Year of the Bus that TfL celebrated not so long ago. It now seems that all those buses were lined up in Regent Street because in the not too distant future the sight of London red buses against the background of the celebrated parts of Central London will become history. The London red bus has become an icon but it is admired not just for its own design but for being an integral part of the London tourist landscape. Maybe in the future when the British tourist authorities are advertising abroad the delights of London they will have pictures of buses in say Hammersmith, Edgware or Catford! Or Westminster Bridge, Trafalgar Square or Piccadilly perhaps?
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Post by cc2005 on Nov 29, 2016 12:28:01 GMT
I agree that the 3 and 6 proposals are good. I did suggest doing exactly that with the 22 previously, mainly to maintain a link from Oxford Circus to Knightsbridge when Oxford Street is pedestrianised but I think the link to Victoria should stay, either the C2 or something else. You had a creative idea about route 22 for it to be materialising now. Route 10 rerouted via Mayfair would also link Oxford Street with Knightsbridge. There are no plans in this TfL consultation on route 10. What do we think is likely to happen to the 10? A re-routing through the central section or cut back completely (to say Victoria, where one can "change for the 390")
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Post by danorak on Nov 29, 2016 13:10:44 GMT
You had a creative idea about route 22 for it to be materialising now. Route 10 rerouted via Mayfair would also link Oxford Street with Knightsbridge. There are no plans in this TfL consultation on route 10. What do we think is likely to happen to the 10? A re-routing through the central section or cut back completely (to say Victoria, where one can "change for the 390") Bringing the 10 south via Piccadilly or curtailing it would probably make it too similar to the 9 to survive. I wonder whether bringing the 3 to Russell Square might be in preparation for sending the 10 north along Euston Road. I suppose there might be a route proposed 'round the back' of Oxford Street but I wouldn't bank on it. The 73 is a curious one too: the withdrawal between Oxford Circus and Victoria can only be a first step, given Oxford Street East will be the first pedestrianised bit. We know that there is no stand space available at TCR, so what happens in the next consultation? Will it run to Oxford Circus via Euston Road and Portland Place? Might there be some kind of merger with the 476? I'd be interested to hear others educated guesses about what this consultation may be pointing to in the next one.
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