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Post by wirewiper on Oct 29, 2020 17:03:32 GMT
How many more bridges are there in London with similar issues? Not just height or width going under but also over. For example... The bridge over the railway at Hounslow on the 281 had a restriction for years. Detailed on the 281 timecards. Only one bus to cross at a time because it is narrow. I mean where do you draw the line with this? I’m only guessing here but any existing arrangements (a bit like a grandfather agreement) would be allowed to continue (unless there happens to be a serious incident occurring) and anything new would have to follow a proper assessment to see if it is viable Exactly - a known existing hazard can be managed, but a new hazard should not be created if there wasn't one before. Taking our Barnes Bridge example, N22 drivers would be well aware of the hazard, it would be on their duty sheets and they would drive accordingly. Other routes have been single-deck for so long, that any idea that location might pose a hazard risk would simply not be in the drivers' mindsets. |
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Post by greenboy on Oct 29, 2020 17:17:47 GMT
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Post by vjaska on Oct 29, 2020 23:03:54 GMT
Exactly my point, where do you draw the line? Double deckers on the 197,403 and 412 come very close to low bridges so should they be converted to single decker just in case the driver makes a mistake as indeed a few have? There might not be many DD routes left if that happened. While we at it, does that mean we should ban lorries as well just in case the sat nav makes them turn into a road with a low bridge or a narrow country lane. 😁 But none of that is the same thing. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2020 23:36:37 GMT
I’m only guessing here but any existing arrangements (a bit like a grandfather agreement) would be allowed to continue (unless there happens to be a serious incident occurring) and anything new would have to follow a proper assessment to see if it is viable Exactly - a known existing hazard can be managed, but a new hazard should not be created if there wasn't one before. Taking our Barnes Bridge example, N22 drivers would be well aware of the hazard, it would be on their duty sheets and they would drive accordingly. Other routes have been single-deck for so long, that any idea that location might pose a hazard risk would simply not be in the drivers' mindsets. Other than the warning road signs and what they can see in front of them. I’ve been under Barnes Bridge so many times on a bus, double and single deck, never seen any issue caused , so I think this whole “problem” doesn’t exist as far as I’m concerned. |
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Post by COBO on Oct 30, 2020 23:56:15 GMT
My god how did this happen. Couldn’t this have been prevented. |
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Post by Busboy105 on Oct 31, 2020 10:25:08 GMT
My god how did this happen. Couldn’t this have been prevented. It could’ve been, that’s why there’s a massive uproar. |
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Post by redbus on Nov 1, 2020 22:33:28 GMT
My god how did this happen. Couldn’t this have been prevented. It could’ve been, that’s why there’s a massive uproar. I would argue from what I have read, it is not could have been prevented, but SHOULD have been prevented. It is a complete disgrace that the bridge was ever allowed to deteriorate into this state, and worse it seems to me that no one who was responsible for allowing this to happen is being taken to task over it. And just to pile on more misery there seems to be little urgency in getting a ferry up and running. This is not the time to argue about contracts and so on, it is time to pull out one's finger and get a ferry service going as a matter of urgency, using the army if need be! |
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Post by ADH45258 on Nov 15, 2020 17:33:37 GMT
As it's been mentioned recently that Hammersmith Bridge is likely to remain closed now until at least 2027, I think TFL should restructure the routes around the area to a more permanent network - this could then be reviewed again in the future if/when the existing bridge reopens. Many of the routes around Barnes and Castelnau have excess capacity (while the 533's frequency/capacity is not sufficient, at least until the ferry is introduced) - and the network is perhaps too complicated with several short routes such as the 209/378/485/533 often serving similar links.
I would suggest the following as a semi-permanent set of changes:
33 - Remain unchanged, terminating at Castelnau. Possible DD conversion if needed.
72 - Cut back from Hammersmith Bridge, and extended from Hammersmith Bus Station to Roehampton (419 terminus), via route 220 to Putney Bridge, then the 265 to Roehampton. Converted to DDs. Restores a link from Hammersmith to Barnes Station and Roehampton, and adds extra capacity.
190 - Converted to DDs, as the 419 no longer links Hammersmith to Sheen/Richmond.
209 & 378 - Combined contract replaced by a revised 209 route, operating as the current 209 from Castelnau to Mortlake High Street, then via the 533 to Hammersmith via Chiswick Bridge. Effectively replaces the 533, but via Barnes High Street and Castelnau in both directions. Fixed bus stops introduced along Great West Road.
265 - Withdrawn between Putney Bridge and Barnes Station, and rerouted to Castelnau via routes 33/419. Replaces the 419's link to Roehampton. Routes 72/85 cover links towards Putney.
272/283 - Merged, revised to operated between Chiswick (Grove Park) and Hammersmith Bridge (current 72 stand), via route 272 to Wood Lane, then South Africa Road, Bloemfonein Road, Uxbridge Road, then the current 72 from Shepherds Bush from Hammersmith Bridge. Could use either route number 272/283. Frequency of around every 12 minutes - the reduction on the 283 section is compensated by the 72's DD conversion, this route will primarily be used to serve the White City estates along this section. The routeing here is also simplified, rather than having two sections in White City that are one direction only - currently on the 283, Wormholt Road is only served towards East Acton, and the north end of Bloemfontein Road is only served towards Hammersmith.
419 - Cut back from Roehampton, instead rerouted from Castelnau via route 485 to Wandsworth - this could either go via Barnes Green and Mill Hill Road, or direct via Rocks Lane, and in either case could incorporate a double run to the Wetland Centre. 485 section rerouted between Putney and Wandsworth via Putney High Street and Upper Richmond Road - this provides a link to the District line at East Putney, replacing the current 378 link to Putney Bridge. Possible short extension onwards to the Wandsworth Riverside development, as previously proposed for the 485.
485 & 533 - Both routes withdrawn, and contracts ceased. 485's resources could possibly enhance the revised 209's frequency, while the 533 is a temporary contract anyway.
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Post by thekbq14 on Nov 15, 2020 20:04:06 GMT
As it's been mentioned recently that Hammersmith Bridge is likely to remain closed now until at least 2027, I think TFL should restructure the routes around the area to a more permanent network - this could then be reviewed again in the future if/when the existing bridge reopens. Many of the routes around Barnes and Castelnau have excess capacity (while the 533's frequency/capacity is not sufficient, at least until the ferry is introduced) - and the network is perhaps too complicated with several short routes such as the 209/378/485/533 often serving similar links. I would suggest the following as a semi-permanent set of changes: 33 - Remain unchanged, terminating at Castelnau. Possible DD conversion if needed. 72 - Cut back from Hammersmith Bridge, and extended from Hammersmith Bus Station to Roehampton (419 terminus), via route 220 to Putney Bridge, then the 265 to Roehampton. Converted to DDs. Restores a link from Hammersmith to Barnes Station and Roehampton, and adds extra capacity. 190 - Converted to DDs, as the 419 no longer links Hammersmith to Sheen/Richmond. 209 & 378 - Combined contract replaced by a revised 209 route, operating as the current 209 from Castelnau to Mortlake High Street, then via the 533 to Hammersmith via Chiswick Bridge. Effectively replaces the 533, but via Barnes High Street and Castelnau in both directions. Fixed bus stops introduced along Great West Road. 265 - Withdrawn between Putney Bridge and Barnes Station, and rerouted to Castelnau via routes 33/419. Replaces the 419's link to Roehampton. Routes 72/85 cover links towards Putney. 272/283 - Merged, revised to operated between Chiswick (Grove Park) and Hammersmith Bridge (current 72 stand), via route 272 to Wood Lane, then South Africa Road, Bloemfonein Road, Uxbridge Road, then the current 72 from Shepherds Bush from Hammersmith Bridge. Could use either route number 272/283. Frequency of around every 12 minutes - the reduction on the 283 section is compensated by the 72's DD conversion, this route will primarily be used to serve the White City estates along this section. The routeing here is also simplified, rather than having two sections in White City that are one direction only - currently on the 283, Wormholt Road is only served towards East Acton, and the north end of Bloemfontein Road is only served towards Hammersmith. 419 - Cut back from Roehampton, instead rerouted from Castelnau via route 485 to Wandsworth - this could either go via Barnes Green and Mill Hill Road, or direct via Rocks Lane, and in either case could incorporate a double run to the Wetland Centre. 485 section rerouted between Putney and Wandsworth via Putney High Street and Upper Richmond Road - this provides a link to the District line at East Putney, replacing the current 378 link to Putney Bridge. Possible short extension onwards to the Wandsworth Riverside development, as previously proposed for the 485. 485 & 533 - Both routes withdrawn, and contracts ceased. 485's resources could possibly enhance the revised 209's frequency, while the 533 is a temporary contract anyway. Not from the area but been around there enough to comment on the changes. I agree with your idea as I have bleak hope of the bridge being fixed anytime and there should really be transport there to makeup for it, but it seems all very makeshift and unorganised but let me not get to into that. I actually like these a lot can be said that links on the buses are getting cut but they're getting fixed and will be the most closest to what they have done before the bridge closure anyways here's my comments. 33 - Agree with that nothing wrong at all, I don't know how loadings have been consistently near the bridge since it's closure but previously I felt that DD's were a must on the route 72 - Nothing wrong with this, Thought this is what they should of done at the beginning personally. Only issue traffic in the area especially with the majority of traffic I'm presuming going to Putney Bridge and added length to what is a long route. When I was there in the summer, traffic wasn't great but not bad either so it's doable. It also keeps the Roehampton, Hammersmith, Shepherd's Bush link and gives DD's to the route that is needed. 190 - Nothing wrong with this again, not sure if demand will be there as currently it seems to cope without it especially remembering being on a DD 190 on time which was empty but like you said with the 419 not serving as near to Hammersmith anymore demand should hopefully increase in general, but personally any DD conversions I'm down for so tick. 209&378 - Gives added frequency to the current 533 which is now the main link in the area to Hammersmith so no complains with it, also gives more use to the route no issues with this as it gives now people in Barnes, Castlenau and Mortlake a direct bus to Hammersmith. I don't know how this links with the 378 as such except for the little bit in Mortlake. Guess the only part left out is the bus stand which I've heard and seen is popular due to the residential area nearer so maybe a loop could be done around there if not then the distance between that and High Street ain't too long anyways, so sadly passengers have to walk. 265 - Always felt this route would be good either left as it is or possibly going to Wandsworth and maybe replacing the 485, but the only issue that it doesn't serve the area around Barnes Pond and if did an awkward loop would have to be introduced. This could be done like you said though when the bridge is back in place. But this makes perfect sense with your changes as it will keep a Castlenau/Barnes link with Roehampton like you said and the 72 will replace the Putney Bridge link as well as giving the Hammersmith link. So nothing wrong here. 272/283 - This is far enough the 283 is a small route as it is, and is not going to be extended back to Barnes anytime soon so merging with a 272 ain't too bad also 72 will be DD's with this proposal so will hopefully take extra capacity and passengers of the 283 pretty much except for the White City Estate backstreets. So makes sense extending it, my separate plan not posted here was to extend it to replace the 228 at Central Middlesex Hospital so guess similar lines. But this I've got no issues with a small extension so shouldn't be too bad on the route's reliability even if it is circuitous and maintains links made by the 283 and connecting it to places like Acton and Chiswick. Also the 272's part of the route might slightly be overbussed but that should be fine. 419 - Correct me if wrong but pretty sure this route is very similar to the original 419 linking Richmond and Wandsworth or a past iteration? This is fine personally in the original plan I wouldn't of did any changes to the 419, but after the 72 wasn't extended back to Roehampton it was rightly so was extended. Keeping the Castlenau back streets part of the route is needed as otherwise these would be left unserved. I'd say Barnes Green and Mill Hill Road should be served to maintain that part of Castlenau serving this part of Barnes especially as it's this towns focal point, and in a situation like this as many links and places should be kept and be there as possible. Extending to Wandsworth also keeps the Putney and Barnes link going by the withdrawing of 378 too so I am all for this and again links to Wandsworth. Also if passengers need Roehampton they can switch for the 72 or 265. 485&533 - This is fair enough as these buses are replaced as like you said the 533 is temporary anyways and replaced by the 209, also the 485 I also felt was a nothing route due to it's poor frequency 30 minutes in inner SW London, but not serving no backstreets only main roads which would be done faster by switching buses and also at only Monday to Saturday and again replaced by the 419 TLDR - I agree with all these changes. |
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Post by COBO on Nov 15, 2020 21:39:14 GMT
Can DDs go down Lonsdale Road, Suffolk Road, Ferry Road, Verdun Road, Howsman Road and Kilmington Road?
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Post by vjaska on Nov 15, 2020 23:13:12 GMT
As it's been mentioned recently that Hammersmith Bridge is likely to remain closed now until at least 2027, I think TFL should restructure the routes around the area to a more permanent network - this could then be reviewed again in the future if/when the existing bridge reopens. Many of the routes around Barnes and Castelnau have excess capacity (while the 533's frequency/capacity is not sufficient, at least until the ferry is introduced) - and the network is perhaps too complicated with several short routes such as the 209/378/485/533 often serving similar links. I would suggest the following as a semi-permanent set of changes: 33 - Remain unchanged, terminating at Castelnau. Possible DD conversion if needed. 72 - Cut back from Hammersmith Bridge, and extended from Hammersmith Bus Station to Roehampton (419 terminus), via route 220 to Putney Bridge, then the 265 to Roehampton. Converted to DDs. Restores a link from Hammersmith to Barnes Station and Roehampton, and adds extra capacity. 190 - Converted to DDs, as the 419 no longer links Hammersmith to Sheen/Richmond. 209 & 378 - Combined contract replaced by a revised 209 route, operating as the current 209 from Castelnau to Mortlake High Street, then via the 533 to Hammersmith via Chiswick Bridge. Effectively replaces the 533, but via Barnes High Street and Castelnau in both directions. Fixed bus stops introduced along Great West Road. 265 - Withdrawn between Putney Bridge and Barnes Station, and rerouted to Castelnau via routes 33/419. Replaces the 419's link to Roehampton. Routes 72/85 cover links towards Putney. 272/283 - Merged, revised to operated between Chiswick (Grove Park) and Hammersmith Bridge (current 72 stand), via route 272 to Wood Lane, then South Africa Road, Bloemfonein Road, Uxbridge Road, then the current 72 from Shepherds Bush from Hammersmith Bridge. Could use either route number 272/283. Frequency of around every 12 minutes - the reduction on the 283 section is compensated by the 72's DD conversion, this route will primarily be used to serve the White City estates along this section. The routeing here is also simplified, rather than having two sections in White City that are one direction only - currently on the 283, Wormholt Road is only served towards East Acton, and the north end of Bloemfontein Road is only served towards Hammersmith. 419 - Cut back from Roehampton, instead rerouted from Castelnau via route 485 to Wandsworth - this could either go via Barnes Green and Mill Hill Road, or direct via Rocks Lane, and in either case could incorporate a double run to the Wetland Centre. 485 section rerouted between Putney and Wandsworth via Putney High Street and Upper Richmond Road - this provides a link to the District line at East Putney, replacing the current 378 link to Putney Bridge. Possible short extension onwards to the Wandsworth Riverside development, as previously proposed for the 485. 485 & 533 - Both routes withdrawn, and contracts ceased. 485's resources could possibly enhance the revised 209's frequency, while the 533 is a temporary contract anyway. I don't think it's wise to combine the 533 into the merged 209 & 378 - I agree with the 209 & 378 being merged but instead of missing it out, it would still run via Avondale Road which is still required for locals and others crossing the railway line via the footbridge. The 533 runs into serious traffic along it's routing and should be left as it is. I don't agree with the 272 & 283 merging together at all and the routing doesn't need to be simplified as it's not confusing anyone in the first place - the routing is in place to serve the top part of that area which would lack a bus route running south. The 283 should be extended over the 72's small routing to Hammersmith Bridge North Side with the 72 going back to it's old role between East Acton & Roehampton via Putney Bridge. I'd prefer to see the 265 continue to Wandsworth rather than the 419 as it keeps the link southwards to beyond Putney and the 265 can cope with such an extension having done so before. The 419 isn't a bad suggestion though and I can see merit in that and I understand the withdrawing of the 485 as well. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Nov 16, 2020 9:52:21 GMT
As it's been mentioned recently that Hammersmith Bridge is likely to remain closed now until at least 2027, I think TFL should restructure the routes around the area to a more permanent network - this could then be reviewed again in the future if/when the existing bridge reopens. Many of the routes around Barnes and Castelnau have excess capacity (while the 533's frequency/capacity is not sufficient, at least until the ferry is introduced) - and the network is perhaps too complicated with several short routes such as the 209/378/485/533 often serving similar links. I would suggest the following as a semi-permanent set of changes: 33 - Remain unchanged, terminating at Castelnau. Possible DD conversion if needed. 72 - Cut back from Hammersmith Bridge, and extended from Hammersmith Bus Station to Roehampton (419 terminus), via route 220 to Putney Bridge, then the 265 to Roehampton. Converted to DDs. Restores a link from Hammersmith to Barnes Station and Roehampton, and adds extra capacity. 190 - Converted to DDs, as the 419 no longer links Hammersmith to Sheen/Richmond. 209 & 378 - Combined contract replaced by a revised 209 route, operating as the current 209 from Castelnau to Mortlake High Street, then via the 533 to Hammersmith via Chiswick Bridge. Effectively replaces the 533, but via Barnes High Street and Castelnau in both directions. Fixed bus stops introduced along Great West Road. 265 - Withdrawn between Putney Bridge and Barnes Station, and rerouted to Castelnau via routes 33/419. Replaces the 419's link to Roehampton. Routes 72/85 cover links towards Putney. 272/283 - Merged, revised to operated between Chiswick (Grove Park) and Hammersmith Bridge (current 72 stand), via route 272 to Wood Lane, then South Africa Road, Bloemfonein Road, Uxbridge Road, then the current 72 from Shepherds Bush from Hammersmith Bridge. Could use either route number 272/283. Frequency of around every 12 minutes - the reduction on the 283 section is compensated by the 72's DD conversion, this route will primarily be used to serve the White City estates along this section. The routeing here is also simplified, rather than having two sections in White City that are one direction only - currently on the 283, Wormholt Road is only served towards East Acton, and the north end of Bloemfontein Road is only served towards Hammersmith. 419 - Cut back from Roehampton, instead rerouted from Castelnau via route 485 to Wandsworth - this could either go via Barnes Green and Mill Hill Road, or direct via Rocks Lane, and in either case could incorporate a double run to the Wetland Centre. 485 section rerouted between Putney and Wandsworth via Putney High Street and Upper Richmond Road - this provides a link to the District line at East Putney, replacing the current 378 link to Putney Bridge. Possible short extension onwards to the Wandsworth Riverside development, as previously proposed for the 485. 485 & 533 - Both routes withdrawn, and contracts ceased. 485's resources could possibly enhance the revised 209's frequency, while the 533 is a temporary contract anyway. I don't think it's wise to combine the 533 into the merged 209 & 378 - I agree with the 209 & 378 being merged but instead of missing it out, it would still run via Avondale Road which is still required for locals and others crossing the railway line via the footbridge. The 533 runs into serious traffic along it's routing and should be left as it is. I don't agree with the 272 & 283 merging together at all and the routing doesn't need to be simplified as it's not confusing anyone in the first place - the routing is in place to serve the top part of that area which would lack a bus route running south. The 283 should be extended over the 72's small routing to Hammersmith Bridge North Side with the 72 going back to it's old role between East Acton & Roehampton via Putney Bridge. I'd prefer to see the 265 continue to Wandsworth rather than the 419 as it keeps the link southwards to beyond Putney and the 265 can cope with such an extension having done so before. The 419 isn't a bad suggestion though and I can see merit in that and I understand the withdrawing of the 485 as well. I'm not directly proposing to merge the 209/378 - the 378 would be withdrawn and replaced mostly by the 419/485 merger - the extended 209 would simply take over the 378 part of the combined contract, using the full PVR of 10 for the Hammersmith-Mortlake-Castelnau route. A double run to Avondale Road could be kept if needed, though this could alternatively be served by the 419. The new 209 would also not be any longer than the existing 533, but would be more frequent. Regarding the 283, it may provide the north part of the estate with a southbound bus service, but locals presumably cope without having a northbound service at present. The merger with the 272 is mostly due to having excess capacity between Shepherds Bush and East Acton, especially with the 72 being converted to DDs - and the merged route would continue to Hammersmith Bridge north side. Not sure what the need is for the 265 to go to Wandsworth. The 419 would link Wandsworth to Barnes, while the 170 already links Wandsworth to Roehampton. My 265 proposal would be needed to replace the 419 along this section, which would no longer serve Roehampton, and so continuing the link to Castelnau. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 16, 2020 11:00:47 GMT
I certainly think the 209/378/485 is too much in the current situation in Barnes with the bridge closed for potentially a long time.
The 485 has always had one main purpose and that is Barnes Centre to Putney a link surprisingly missing till the 485 with the 265 just missing Barnes and the 337 (37) only to Barnes Common. Fast forward to now have the 378 and 485 doing that same link. I would permanently keep the 378 on its current route and maybe extend to Wandsworth and axe the 485. That way the new Mortlake to Putney link can remain and the existing Barnes to Putney link is maintained.
The 209 can maybe go back to every 10 to 12 mins up to maintain Barnes (Church street) to Castlenau capacity.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 16, 2020 12:29:28 GMT
I don't think it's wise to combine the 533 into the merged 209 & 378 - I agree with the 209 & 378 being merged but instead of missing it out, it would still run via Avondale Road which is still required for locals and others crossing the railway line via the footbridge. The 533 runs into serious traffic along it's routing and should be left as it is. I don't agree with the 272 & 283 merging together at all and the routing doesn't need to be simplified as it's not confusing anyone in the first place - the routing is in place to serve the top part of that area which would lack a bus route running south. The 283 should be extended over the 72's small routing to Hammersmith Bridge North Side with the 72 going back to it's old role between East Acton & Roehampton via Putney Bridge. I'd prefer to see the 265 continue to Wandsworth rather than the 419 as it keeps the link southwards to beyond Putney and the 265 can cope with such an extension having done so before. The 419 isn't a bad suggestion though and I can see merit in that and I understand the withdrawing of the 485 as well. I'm not directly proposing to merge the 209/378 - the 378 would be withdrawn and replaced mostly by the 419/485 merger - the extended 209 would simply take over the 378 part of the combined contract, using the full PVR of 10 for the Hammersmith-Mortlake-Castelnau route. A double run to Avondale Road could be kept if needed, though this could alternatively be served by the 419. The new 209 would also not be any longer than the existing 533, but would be more frequent. Regarding the 283, it may provide the north part of the estate with a southbound bus service, but locals presumably cope without having a northbound service at present. The merger with the 272 is mostly due to having excess capacity between Shepherds Bush and East Acton, especially with the 72 being converted to DDs - and the merged route would continue to Hammersmith Bridge north side. Not sure what the need is for the 265 to go to Wandsworth. The 419 would link Wandsworth to Barnes, while the 170 already links Wandsworth to Roehampton. My 265 proposal would be needed to replace the 419 along this section, which would no longer serve Roehampton, and so continuing the link to Castelnau. A double run via Avondale Road should be kept due to reasons I already outlined - at Avondale Road, there is a footbridge across the tracks as well as a residential area alongside the tracks. This is why I prefer a 209/378 merger as no links are broken aside from a Wandsworth to Barnes link - Avondale Road remains linked to Putney & Hammersmith Bridges. I don’t understand your sentence about “new 209 being longer” - the 533 runs into very heavy traffic in places due to the displacement of traffic with the bridge closed and so it makes no sense making the route even longer and affecting a section of the 209 that currently doesn’t have delays as a result. The northbound routing would probably serve the northern part of the area were it not for the road layout where there is no right turn onto the A40 - it’s still not a good enough reason to remove their southbound routing. The 265 proved popular when running from Wandsworth temporarily - yes there was no 220 at the time but there were a number of cross Putney journeys to & from Wandsworth particularly to Barnes Common & Barnes Station. And if you notice, I did say the 419 isn’t a bad suggestion in any event. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Nov 16, 2020 13:22:08 GMT
I'm not directly proposing to merge the 209/378 - the 378 would be withdrawn and replaced mostly by the 419/485 merger - the extended 209 would simply take over the 378 part of the combined contract, using the full PVR of 10 for the Hammersmith-Mortlake-Castelnau route. A double run to Avondale Road could be kept if needed, though this could alternatively be served by the 419. The new 209 would also not be any longer than the existing 533, but would be more frequent. Regarding the 283, it may provide the north part of the estate with a southbound bus service, but locals presumably cope without having a northbound service at present. The merger with the 272 is mostly due to having excess capacity between Shepherds Bush and East Acton, especially with the 72 being converted to DDs - and the merged route would continue to Hammersmith Bridge north side. Not sure what the need is for the 265 to go to Wandsworth. The 419 would link Wandsworth to Barnes, while the 170 already links Wandsworth to Roehampton. My 265 proposal would be needed to replace the 419 along this section, which would no longer serve Roehampton, and so continuing the link to Castelnau. A double run via Avondale Road should be kept due to reasons I already outlined - at Avondale Road, there is a footbridge across the tracks as well as a residential area alongside the tracks. This is why I prefer a 209/378 merger as no links are broken aside from a Wandsworth to Barnes link - Avondale Road remains linked to Putney & Hammersmith Bridges. I don’t understand your sentence about “new 209 being longer” - the 533 runs into very heavy traffic in places due to the displacement of traffic with the bridge closed and so it makes no sense making the route even longer and affecting a section of the 209 that currently doesn’t have delays as a result. The northbound routing would probably serve the northern part of the area were it not for the road layout where there is no right turn onto the A40 - it’s still not a good enough reason to remove their southbound routing. The 265 proved popular when running from Wandsworth temporarily - yes there was no 220 at the time but there were a number of cross Putney journeys to & from Wandsworth particularly to Barnes Common & Barnes Station. And if you notice, I did say the 419 isn’t a bad suggestion in any event. Avondale Road might be worth keeping, but it is only a short walk to Mortlake High Street, and the other side of the footbridge has the 33 from Lower Richmond Road. My proposal for the 209 would effectively be a renumbering of the 533 - but with a standard routeing via Castelnau and Barnes High Street in both directions, rather than a loop. So the revised 209 would be no different in terms of length/reliability than the 533. My 419 proposal would serve the same links as your suggested 209/378 merger, linking Mortlake, Barnes, Castelnau and Putney. |
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