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Post by snoggle on Feb 13, 2019 14:39:42 GMT
Interesting. If that article is correct (and I'm a tad sceptical to be honest) and progress / productivity can be maintained / improved then my sense that stations would be ready by mid - late Autumn is probably right. Even recognising the genuine problems with site access at Bond St I am surprised we've got this far without tunnel vent fans being fitted. Makes me wonder how they're running test trains if they've not got even partially working vent fans. I'd have expected tunnel vent installation being complete to be a pre-requisite before trains ran but I'm probably wrong. If my guess work is right then my suspicion that Mark Wild is deliberately doing "doom and gloom" over possible opening dates is right. I know the train testing programme could do awry at any moment and there are also rumours that the class 345s (and 710s) have a transformer problem (far too many failures) but if it runs reasonably smoothly then an opening of the Core (possibly without Bond St) could be feasible late 2019. I suspect that is what Crossrail are actually aiming for.
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Post by snowman on Feb 13, 2019 15:20:37 GMT
Interesting. If that article is correct (and I'm a tad sceptical to be honest) and progress / productivity can be maintained / improved then my sense that stations would be ready by mid - late Autumn is probably right. Even recognising the genuine problems with site access at Bond St I am surprised we've got this far without tunnel vent fans being fitted. Makes me wonder how they're running test trains if they've not got even partially working vent fans. I'd have expected tunnel vent installation being complete to be a pre-requisite before trains ran but I'm probably wrong. If my guess work is right then my suspicion that Mark Wild is deliberately doing "doom and gloom" over possible opening dates is right. I know the train testing programme could do awry at any moment and there are also rumours that the class 345s (and 710s) have a transformer problem (far too many failures) but if it runs reasonably smoothly then an opening of the Core (possibly without Bond St) could be feasible late 2019. I suspect that is what Crossrail are actually aiming for. Transformer failure in a modern train is poor. It was understandable in 1960 when the then new Glasgow AM3 (later class 303) units blew up 5 transformers. How to avoid it is all documented (and the link makes a good historic read of the early days of ac electrification) and how problems used to be solved. www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_EMUFailures1962.pdfRather amazing that transformer design problems have been made 55 years later. For our younger readers some sections were initially 6.25kv (quarter voltage), due to limited clearances or insulators designed for 1500volt DC. Simply switched primary tappings on the transformer from 4 in series to parallel to get same output voltage. The last 6.25kv sections were converted to 25kv about 1983-84 (think it was Bethnal Green - Clapton area which is why the 315s were banned from that line initially prior to changeover)
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 14, 2019 21:18:51 GMT
Interesting. If that article is correct (and I'm a tad sceptical to be honest) and progress / productivity can be maintained / improved then my sense that stations would be ready by mid - late Autumn is probably right. Even recognising the genuine problems with site access at Bond St I am surprised we've got this far without tunnel vent fans being fitted. Makes me wonder how they're running test trains if they've not got even partially working vent fans. I'd have expected tunnel vent installation being complete to be a pre-requisite before trains ran but I'm probably wrong. If my guess work is right then my suspicion that Mark Wild is deliberately doing "doom and gloom" over possible opening dates is right. I know the train testing programme could do awry at any moment and there are also rumours that the class 345s (and 710s) have a transformer problem (far too many failures) but if it runs reasonably smoothly then an opening of the Core (possibly without Bond St) could be feasible late 2019. I suspect that is what Crossrail are actually aiming for. The issue with Crossrail opening without Bond Street would be the further pressure that would as a result be put on Oxford Circus, it's is currently having escalator works done and you're even lucky to get into the station, Warren Street has had to have crowd control as of late because people seem to be walking there through the back roads as a result.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 14, 2019 22:18:35 GMT
The issue with Crossrail opening without Bond Street would be the further pressure that would as a result be put on Oxford Circus, it's is currently having escalator works done and you're even lucky to get into the station, Warren Street has had to have crowd control as of late because people seem to be walking there through the back roads as a result. Really? In my view Oxford Circus will remain a perpetual nightmare even with Crossrail. One wonders how much cutting bus services to ribbons is causing tube stations to overload. Yet another obvious consequence that has almost certainly been ignored by TfL when it came up with its hare brained bus cuts. And to think they want to make even more cuts! All of the tube stations on Oxford St will continue to struggle if the large shops remain in business. They're simply too small for the demand they have to handle. Worth bearing in mind that the western CR ticket hall at TCR had escalators and links to the Central Line descoped to save money. Lots of analysis done to justify this but I think they'll come to rue this decision in due course. I had the very rare experience of trying to use the tube in the peak on Tuesday evening. Entered at Green Park and only managed to get on the third Vic Line train. People were queued back off the platform into the adits at Oxford Circus. Crossrail isn't going to change that in any demonstrable way. For those of us in NE London Crossrail is pretty much an irrelevance as there's no convenient interchange with it from the tube. If I can be bothered to drag myself to Stratford or use the Chingford Line to Liv St then yes there is interchange but we're talking about 15 min headways on connecting services compared with a daily 1-2 min headway on the Vic Line. The tube will always win out in that scenario.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 14, 2019 22:28:09 GMT
The issue with Crossrail opening without Bond Street would be the further pressure that would as a result be put on Oxford Circus, it's is currently having escalator works done and you're even lucky to get into the station, Warren Street has had to have crowd control as of late because people seem to be walking there through the back roads as a result. Really? In my view Oxford Circus will remain a perpetual nightmare even with Crossrail. One wonders how much cutting bus services to ribbons is causing tube stations to overload. Yet another obvious consequence that has almost certainly been ignored by TfL when it came up with its hare brained bus cuts. And to think they want to make even more cuts! All of the tube stations on Oxford St will continue to struggle if the large shops remain in business. They're simply too small for the demand they have to handle. Worth bearing in mind that the western CR ticket hall at TCR had escalators and links to the Central Line descoped to save money. Lots of analysis done to justify this but I think they'll come to rue this decision in due course. I had the very rare experience of trying to use the tube in the peak on Tuesday evening. Entered at Green Park and only managed to get on the third Vic Line train. People were queued back off the platform into the adits at Oxford Circus. Crossrail isn't going to change that in any demonstrable way. For those of us in NE London Crossrail is pretty much an irrelevance as there's no convenient interchange with it from the tube. If I can be bothered to drag myself to Stratford or use the Chingford Line to Liv St then yes there is interchange but we're talking about 15 min headways on connecting services compared with a daily 1-2 min headway on the Vic Line. The tube will always win out in that scenario. I'm remaining slightly hopeful that when Bond Street opens, the Central Line at Oxford Circus will at least show signs of improving. The platforms on that line especially are completely inappropriate for the crowd that they deal with. The Victoria line has the benefit of the concourse at the bottom of the escalators where people can back up to, although I try to avoid using that line in the evening peak wherever I can. The lack of bus service into the city is certainly taking its toll on the tube as well. Going back to the Central Line that line has really taken a hit with much more noticeable crowds since the 25 got cut back to St Paul's. Eventually a breaking point is going to be reached and hopefully TfL see some sense before pride there and restore bus routes to Oxford Street.
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Post by ibus246 on Feb 15, 2019 8:17:48 GMT
Really? In my view Oxford Circus will remain a perpetual nightmare even with Crossrail. One wonders how much cutting bus services to ribbons is causing tube stations to overload. Yet another obvious consequence that has almost certainly been ignored by TfL when it came up with its hare brained bus cuts. And to think they want to make even more cuts! All of the tube stations on Oxford St will continue to struggle if the large shops remain in business. They're simply too small for the demand they have to handle. Worth bearing in mind that the western CR ticket hall at TCR had escalators and links to the Central Line descoped to save money. Lots of analysis done to justify this but I think they'll come to rue this decision in due course. I had the very rare experience of trying to use the tube in the peak on Tuesday evening. Entered at Green Park and only managed to get on the third Vic Line train. People were queued back off the platform into the adits at Oxford Circus. Crossrail isn't going to change that in any demonstrable way. For those of us in NE London Crossrail is pretty much an irrelevance as there's no convenient interchange with it from the tube. If I can be bothered to drag myself to Stratford or use the Chingford Line to Liv St then yes there is interchange but we're talking about 15 min headways on connecting services compared with a daily 1-2 min headway on the Vic Line. The tube will always win out in that scenario. I'm remaining slightly hopeful that when Bond Street opens, the Central Line at Oxford Circus will at least show signs of improving. The platforms on that line especially are completely inappropriate for the crowd that they deal with. The Victoria line has the benefit of the concourse at the bottom of the escalators where people can back up to, although I try to avoid using that line in the evening peak wherever I can. The lack of bus service into the city is certainly taking its toll on the tube as well. Going back to the Central Line that line has really taken a hit with much more noticeable crowds since the 25 got cut back to St Paul's. Eventually a breaking point is going to be reached and hopefully TfL see some sense before pride there and restore bus routes to Oxford Street. The TfL is NOT for turning! - to coin a phrase
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Post by snoggle on Feb 15, 2019 13:44:00 GMT
Oh dear. The "who knew what when" debacle runs on. Interesting that Summer 2019 was the assumed date for the core with a big bang through service from December with both east and west linked in in one go. Seems there is an Evening Standard article too but I've not looked at that.
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Post by busaholic on Feb 15, 2019 21:46:25 GMT
Oh dear. The "who knew what when" debacle runs on.
Interesting that Summer 2019 was the assumed date for the core with a big bang through service from December with both east and west linked in in one go. Seems there is an Evening Standard article too but I've not looked at that. The Labour backbench MP Tam Dalyell was a thorn in PM Margaret Thatcher's side for donkeys' years after the Falklands War with the allegation that the Argentenian warship Belgrano was in retreat when it was sunk by UK forces with the loss of hundreds of lives. I'm not attempting to compare the seriousness and impact of that allegation with the Crossrail debacle, except to say that if Sadiq Khan is not able to convincingly refute this (and that would appear to be difficult) his term as Mayor, if not defined by it, will certainly be remembered for it. 'Fess up would be my uncalled-for advice to him, even if it's too late to save your reputation.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 15, 2019 22:24:24 GMT
Oh dear. The "who knew what when" debacle runs on.
Interesting that Summer 2019 was the assumed date for the core with a big bang through service from December with both east and west linked in in one go. Seems there is an Evening Standard article too but I've not looked at that. The Labour backbench MP Tam Dalyell was a thorn in PM Margaret Thatcher's side for donkeys' years after the Falklands War with the allegation that the Argentenian warship Belgrano was in retreat when it was sunk by UK forces with the loss of hundreds of lives. I'm not attempting to compare the seriousness and impact of that allegation with the Crossrail debacle, except to say that if Sadiq Khan is not able to convincingly refute this (and that would appear to be difficult) his term as Mayor, if not defined by it, will certainly be remembered for it. 'Fess up would be my uncalled-for advice to him, even if it's too late to save your reputation. The mayor fess up? You got the wrong guy, he would never own up.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 15, 2019 22:36:10 GMT
The Labour backbench MP Tam Dalyell was a thorn in PM Margaret Thatcher's side for donkeys' years after the Falklands War with the allegation that the Argentenian warship Belgrano was in retreat when it was sunk by UK forces with the loss of hundreds of lives. I'm not attempting to compare the seriousness and impact of that allegation with the Crossrail debacle, except to say that if Sadiq Khan is not able to convincingly refute this (and that would appear to be difficult) his term as Mayor, if not defined by it, will certainly be remembered for it. 'Fess up would be my uncalled-for advice to him, even if it's too late to save your reputation. As you say it's not comparable with the Belgrano accusation in any way. Khan won't change his position on this. What will happen is an enormous witch hunt inside TfL and City Hall to find out what went on and who was responsible for these press releases. Their careers will very soon be terminated. Khan has taken a lawyer's approach to this - he's refuting that he was told something very specific at a point in time. By taking such a narrow definition he feels it's defensible even if any reasonable person would take a plainer view about what was said in July by the Crossrail Board. To be honest I am not that fussed about this debacle in terms of the Mayor's responsibility. Things were clearly going sideways during Boris's term but no one realised quite how badly or how the consequences would roll forward and multiply. Worse the governance was established under Boris's term and with Osborne at the Treasury - for that reason you'll understand why I take attacks coming from the Osborne edited Standard with an enormous pinch of salt. It is also interesting that the Mayor is put front and centre by his opponents yet the DfT are joint and equal sponsors for the project but Osborne isn't chucking dirt at Chris Grayling. The far more serious questions about "what the heck were they doing" come back to the TfL non execs on the Crossrail Board and what they told their peers in TfL. I find it incredible that TfL are seemingly as ill informed as they claim. What were Howard Smith and Mark Wild (the TfL non execs) doing for all the time they were involved? They MUST have known it was going wrong. Both are intelligent and experienced railwaymen. They would know it was going wrong. OK they were NOT in charge but their job was to challenge and, I assume, to communicate back to the sponsor they were representing. The most important thing now is to get the construction finished, contractors out and get the thing finished, commissioned, testing, approved and handed over so services can start running. I hope most of that happens this year but I'm not holding my breath. In the meantime the political witch hunt will just intensify as we head towards May 2020.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 17, 2019 14:22:28 GMT
Just watched the first programme in the new series of the £ 1517bn Railway. While there are the usual feats of engineering derring-do I was left going "how did they not know they were late?" "why did they do the work in this way?" many times. Obviously I'm a layman and not an engineer but I find it mildly astonishing that the only access door to a platform was where they were trying to fit the last bit of a platform edge door. They had to stop work umpteen times to let people in and out of the door. Ditto with the timing and process for fitting the station fans at Canary Wharf - that just seemed bizarre in terms of timing. I'd have expected fans to have been fitted *ages* ago. Nice to see the train simulator in use but the mock incident they did for the trainee driver was a bit naughty if you ask me. Interesting to see that Autumn 2019 is stated on the show as being the next alternative opening date. Obviously the new management will disown that date but significant nonetheless. That's probably what's been redacted from all the KMPG reports.
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Post by routew15 on Mar 7, 2019 18:18:55 GMT
This can only mean good progress surely for this station.
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Post by snoggle on Mar 7, 2019 23:53:25 GMT
This can only mean good progress surely for this station. Possibly. What was apparently said by Crossrail managers to the Public Accounts Cttee this week was not exactly reassuring. If the reports of it that I've seen elsewhere are even remotely accurate I'm a tad gobsmacked about what is being said. Some of the alleged conclusions are so simplistic as to borderline insulting - "a key learning point is that stations should be finished before testing of railway systems and trains happen" - well duh! anyone with a moderate clue about railway construction knows that. It now looks like works on the stations are going to be deliberately delayed to allow train and signalling testing to proceed as fast as possible. There is no firm view of the final cost of the project nor a clear emerging completion date. Apparently a "range of possible completion dates" are going to be presented to the DfT in April and it is very unlikely that anything will open in 2019 and even 2020 is starting to look like a struggle although Crossrail "would like to wrap the project up in 2020". Looks like it's going backwards to me or there is a deliberate attempt to paint a lot of bad news alongside being as non committal as possible. While I can understand a level of reluctance given past overconfidence it really doesn't look very professional to me. These new people at Crossrail are supposed to the world's best people to bring in a project like this - it doesn't feel like they are based on their public utterances.
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Post by routew15 on Mar 8, 2019 9:22:48 GMT
This can only mean good progress surely for this station. Possibly. What was apparently said by Crossrail managers to the Public Accounts Cttee this week was not exactly reassuring. If the reports of it that I've seen elsewhere are even remotely accurate I'm a tad gobsmacked about what is being said. Some of the alleged conclusions are so simplistic as to borderline insulting - "a key learning point is that stations should be finished before testing of railway systems and trains happen" - well duh! anyone with a moderate clue about railway construction knows that. It now looks like works on the stations are going to be deliberately delayed to allow train and signalling testing to proceed as fast as possible. There is no firm view of the final cost of the project nor a clear emerging completion date. Apparently a "range of possible completion dates" are going to be presented to the DfT in April and it is very unlikely that anything will open in 2019 and even 2020 is starting to look like a struggle although Crossrail "would like to wrap the project up in 2020". Looks like it's going backwards to me or there is a deliberate attempt to paint a lot of bad news alongside being as non committal as possible. While I can understand a level of reluctance given past overconfidence it really doesn't look very professional to me. These new people at Crossrail are supposed to the world's best people to bring in a project like this - it doesn't feel like they are based on their public utterances. I can understand why 2020 may not even be achievable the recent uploads on Flickr from CR Project of photos taken August - November 2018 show many stations still looking like construction sites. I don’t know how well dynamic testing can go with half complete stations, how do test the PEDs if they are still being protected? It would be nice if of the core CR Underground Stations, we could have 5 complete and fully tested stations (maybe TCR, Farringdon, Liverpool Street, Whitechapel and Canary Wharf) by the end of 2019, that’s as optimistic as i am allowing myself to get this year
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Post by redbus on Mar 8, 2019 20:24:36 GMT
This can only mean good progress surely for this station. Possibly. What was apparently said by Crossrail managers to the Public Accounts Cttee this week was not exactly reassuring. If the reports of it that I've seen elsewhere are even remotely accurate I'm a tad gobsmacked about what is being said. Some of the alleged conclusions are so simplistic as to borderline insulting - "a key learning point is that stations should be finished before testing of railway systems and trains happen" - well duh! anyone with a moderate clue about railway construction knows that. It now looks like works on the stations are going to be deliberately delayed to allow train and signalling testing to proceed as fast as possible. There is no firm view of the final cost of the project nor a clear emerging completion date. Apparently a "range of possible completion dates" are going to be presented to the DfT in April and it is very unlikely that anything will open in 2019 and even 2020 is starting to look like a struggle although Crossrail "would like to wrap the project up in 2020". Looks like it's going backwards to me or there is a deliberate attempt to paint a lot of bad news alongside being as non committal as possible. While I can understand a level of reluctance given past overconfidence it really doesn't look very professional to me. These new people at Crossrail are supposed to the world's best people to bring in a project like this - it doesn't feel like they are based on their public utterances. I heard our Mayor on the radio yesterday and he was asked about Crossrail opening and the lack of an opening date. I am hoping that I am quoting him correctly when I think he said that he would be advised (by Crossrail) of when the line might open in April (next month).
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