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Post by rif153 on Jul 14, 2019 8:04:37 GMT
I think the exit only rear door could backfire and encourage even more fare dodging. Keeping the rear door closed permanently would render the rear staircase redundant but on the flip side, people will still be able to sneak in the back door and if the oyster readers are removed then they'll just dart up the stairs whilst the driver is busy with passengers at the front door. Some drivers probably won't even bother enforcing the new rule which will make things interesting
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Post by george on Jul 14, 2019 8:55:20 GMT
I think the exit only rear door could backfire and encourage even more fare dodging. Keeping the rear door closed permanently would render the rear staircase redundant but on the flip side, people will still be able to sneak in the back door and if the oyster readers are removed then they'll just dart up the stairs whilst the driver is busy with passengers at the front door. Some drivers probably won't even bother enforcing the new rule which will make things interesting Couldn't agree more with you, just because oyster readers are being taken off isn't going to stop fare dodgers using the back.
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Post by rif153 on Jul 14, 2019 9:05:34 GMT
Picture this, you're running late and you're going to get on a bus. Said route you're planning on using is an LT route. You're speed-walking to the stop when an LT comes bombing past you. Eager not to miss it you run for the bus, as you draw closer to the stop you see the rear door is open, the rear door is supposed to be exit-only but you want to get on the bus. Do you get on at the rear door and walk to the driver to pay?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2019 9:10:43 GMT
Picture this, you're running late and you're going to get on a bus. Said route you're planning on using is an LT route. You're speed-walking to the stop when an LT comes bombing past you. Eager not to miss it you run for the bus, as you draw closer to the stop you see the rear door is open, the rear door is supposed to be exit-only but you want to get on the bus. Do you get on at the rear door and walk to the driver to pay? Its madness isn't it we have got used to open boarding and they expect people just to change habits overnight. Its a bit different if a route changes from LT to standard bus (87/88 as a example) as most people can spot the difference and the fact it only has two doors.
I am not sure how the door system works but I just hope drivers don't start opening the exit doors first waiting for passengers to leave before opening the front door as this will make journeys even longer.
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Post by rif153 on Jul 14, 2019 9:18:59 GMT
Picture this, you're running late and you're going to get on a bus. Said route you're planning on using is an LT route. You're speed-walking to the stop when an LT comes bombing past you. Eager not to miss it you run for the bus, as you draw closer to the stop you see the rear door is open, the rear door is supposed to be exit-only but you want to get on the bus. Do you get on at the rear door and walk to the driver to pay? Its madness isn't it we have got used to open boarding and they expect people just to change habits overnight. Its a bit different if a route changes from LT to standard bus (87/88 as a example) as most people can spot the difference and the fact it only has two doors.
I am not sure how the door system works but I just hope drivers don't start opening the exit doors first waiting for passengers to leave before opening the front door as this will make journeys even longer.
I agree its nonesense. I can forsee this change being poorly advertised so regulars on LTs routes just board as usual and enter the rear door, but with no oyster reader they don't even attempt to pay. This will take a lot of getting used to for many. I wonder if we'll see revised schedules with more run time to account for the loss of open boarding
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Post by sid on Jul 14, 2019 9:45:32 GMT
Picture this, you're running late and you're going to get on a bus. Said route you're planning on using is an LT route. You're speed-walking to the stop when an LT comes bombing past you. Eager not to miss it you run for the bus, as you draw closer to the stop you see the rear door is open, the rear door is supposed to be exit-only but you want to get on the bus. Do you get on at the rear door and walk to the driver to pay? I understand your point but the same scenario can occur on two door buses. I think it would be ridiculous to take the rear door and staircase out of use on LT's.
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Post by rif153 on Jul 14, 2019 10:00:17 GMT
Picture this, you're running late and you're going to get on a bus. Said route you're planning on using is an LT route. You're speed-walking to the stop when an LT comes bombing past you. Eager not to miss it you run for the bus, as you draw closer to the stop you see the rear door is open, the rear door is supposed to be exit-only but you want to get on the bus. Do you get on at the rear door and walk to the driver to pay? I understand your point but the same scenario can occur on two door buses. I think it would be ridiculous to take the rear door and staircase out of use on LT's. I would get on at the rear door if I was running for an LT just as I would for a convetnional, in both instances I would proceed to touch in at the driver. I just think having the rear door functioning in some capacity is bound to cause some confusion and tempt people to dodge the fares
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Post by M1104 on Jul 14, 2019 10:09:01 GMT
I understand your point but the same scenario can occur on two door buses. I think it would be ridiculous to take the rear door and staircase out of use on LT's. I would get on at the rear door if I was running for an LT just as I would for a convetnional, in both instances I would proceed to touch in at the driver. I just think having the rear door functioning in some capacity is bound to cause some confusion and tempt people to dodge the fares I imagine the confusion will be even more when punters for example change between the 8 and 149 at Liverpool Street, the routes then having different boarding procedures.
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 14, 2019 10:50:35 GMT
I would get on at the rear door if I was running for an LT just as I would for a convetnional, in both instances I would proceed to touch in at the driver. I just think having the rear door functioning in some capacity is bound to cause some confusion and tempt people to dodge the fares I imagine the confusion will be even more when punters for example change between the 8 and 149 at Liverpool Street, the routes then having different boarding procedures. All LT routes will eventually have the same boarding procedures. And the new procedure for boarding LTs is exactly the same as applies currently to any other TfL bus except the Red Arrows.
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Post by busaholic on Jul 14, 2019 11:08:10 GMT
NRM? New Ridiculous Mutations.
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Post by M1104 on Jul 14, 2019 11:14:51 GMT
I imagine the confusion will be even more when punters for example change between the 8 and 149 at Liverpool Street, the routes then having different boarding procedures. All LT routes will eventually have the same boarding procedures. And the new procedure for boarding LTs is exactly the same as applies currently to any other TfL bus except the Red Arrows. That is true but until then there will be periods when confusion will likely take place. Another example would be the 59 and 159 which runs together from Lambeth North through Kennington and Brixton to Streatham Hill, plenty of short hoppers along that stretch that would get caught out.
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Post by rif153 on Jul 14, 2019 11:17:04 GMT
I imagine the confusion will be even more when punters for example change between the 8 and 149 at Liverpool Street, the routes then having different boarding procedures. All LT routes will eventually have the same boarding procedures. And the new procedure for boarding LTs is exactly the same as applies currently to any other TfL bus except the Red Arrows. Yes but during the period which some route have the new boarding arrangements whilst other have the existing boarding arrangements, some people may be confused especially where LTs with the old and new boarding arrangements meet. Once the new LT boarding arrangements are standardised on all LT routes that should alleviate confusion.
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Post by rif153 on Jul 14, 2019 11:17:51 GMT
All LT routes will eventually have the same boarding procedures. And the new procedure for boarding LTs is exactly the same as applies currently to any other TfL bus except the Red Arrows. That is true but it appears to be happening in stages so there will be periods when confusion will likely take place. Another example would be the 59 and 159 which runs together from Lambeth North through Kennington and Brixton to Streatham Hill. Along with the 3 which parallels both the 59, and 159 between the IWM and Brixton
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Post by busaholic on Jul 14, 2019 11:54:35 GMT
I'm making a point seriously here, and not being facetious. If, as I suspect might happen at some stage, one of two things is trialled how much chaos would ensue? The first of the two might seem the simpler to anyone who doesn't actually make much use of London buses themselves, so probably would include the very people in TfL and the London Assembly who might propose it. This would be to introduce Oyster readers at exit doors and require passengers to swipe out, as per rail services. The second, which might follow on from the first if the latter was deemed a success, would be to scrap the concept of a flat fare being charged on every London bus route, the price charged (or, rather, debited) to be based on where you exit i.e. tap out. I'm not making a separate thread at the moment (a) because I'm watching the cricket cup final and (b) I'm relating it to the decision re the NRMs i.e. I think that decision will open a whole can of worms, and I've never heard of the worms returning to their sanctuary of their own accord.
If there's sufficient interest I'll start (or someone else can) a new thread but medical appointments will probably preclude me doing it for a few days.
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Post by 700101 on Jul 14, 2019 21:21:49 GMT
In my opinion feels kind of waste to have a bus with 3 doors and just one entry and will take a while to change passenger habits; when I went Amsterdam a while ago I was surprised the trams had entry only doors with other doors exit only but with a barrier maybe TfL should take this approach
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