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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 24, 2019 18:08:47 GMT
And the central section of the X68 is linked to Brixton by the 59 which takes a fairly quick route.
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Post by busaholic on Jun 24, 2019 18:12:24 GMT
There may have been more outrage had Plumstead, Woolwich and Blackheath lost their long standing route number. Yes the Plumstead, Woolwich, Charlton & Blackheath crowd do have rather loud voices, recently been ignored, as the 53 has been cut back Plus the long-standing semi fast Charing Cross to Gillingham rail service was replaced by and all stops Thameslink service and in 2022 the Woolwich line will lose Charing Cross trains for good, meaning no more direct connection to the West End, the 53 could have been some compensation for this loss but look how that’s gone.... I know CrossRail will take people to the heart of the West End, but not everyone will use CrossRail, twenty years ago people predicted that the 53 would be redundant because of the JLE and look what happened there.... In early 1990s the plan was for there to be a 453 between E&C to Thamesmead while the 53 would have been truncated at New Cross Gate, and the local MP’s at the time were indeed very vocal about this change, hence why when the matter came up again ten years later in the early 2000s, not only did the outer section keep the 53 number but it was truncated just short of Trafalgar Square at Whitehall, while the 453 somewhat partially restore the old 53 routing just beyond Oxford Street to Marylebone, now TfL is in the business of butchering routes in the SE London area, all the while shouting “you have CrossRail, you have CrossRail!!” Some use that will be for commuters in Blackheath or Catford. Just think thirty years ago, Woolwich had two bus routes that went to the West End; the 53 & the 177, both of which had express variants, plus a semi fast train service to Charing Cross, now all thats gone On conversion to opo in the early 1970s I used to take the 177 to Woolwich for a weekly law course, but I had to go to Elephant to get it: like all ex-tram routes that didn't get extended (which was the majority) it never really got to the West End, the Victoria Embankment being the extent of it and many others, soon declining to peaks only because for shoppers etc it didn't fulfill a purpose.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 18:17:53 GMT
Yes the Plumstead, Woolwich, Charlton & Blackheath crowd do have rather loud voices, recently been ignored, as the 53 has been cut back Plus the long-standing semi fast Charing Cross to Gillingham rail service was replaced by and all stops Thameslink service and in 2022 the Woolwich line will lose Charing Cross trains for good, meaning no more direct connection to the West End, the 53 could have been some compensation for this loss but look how that’s gone.... I know CrossRail will take people to the heart of the West End, but not everyone will use CrossRail, twenty years ago people predicted that the 53 would be redundant because of the JLE and look what happened there.... In early 1990s the plan was for there to be a 453 between E&C to Thamesmead while the 53 would have been truncated at New Cross Gate, and the local MP’s at the time were indeed very vocal about this change, hence why when the matter came up again ten years later in the early 2000s, not only did the outer section keep the 53 number but it was truncated just short of Trafalgar Square at Whitehall, while the 453 somewhat partially restore the old 53 routing just beyond Oxford Street to Marylebone, now TfL is in the business of butchering routes in the SE London area, all the while shouting “you have CrossRail, you have CrossRail!!” Some use that will be for commuters in Blackheath or Catford. Just think thirty years ago, Woolwich had two bus routes that went to the West End; the 53 & the 177, both of which had express variants, plus a semi fast train service to Charing Cross, now all thats gone On conversion to opo in the early 1990s I used to take the 177 to Woolwich for a weekly law course, but I had to go to Elephant to get it: like all ex-tram routes that didn't get extended (which was the majority) it never really got to the West End, the Victoria Embankment being the extent of it and many others, soon declining to peaks only because for shoppers etc it didn't fulfill a purpose. The 177 converted to OPO in 1972.
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Post by rif153 on Jun 24, 2019 18:19:12 GMT
Caroline Pidgeon also asked the Mayor if the X68 could stop at Brixton a couple of years ago. Yet another Lib Dem advocating this idea. DISCLAIMER: I do not support introducing a stop at Brixton on the X68 www.london.gov.uk/questions/2017/3052
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Post by route53 on Jun 24, 2019 18:40:58 GMT
Yes the Plumstead, Woolwich, Charlton & Blackheath crowd do have rather loud voices, recently been ignored, as the 53 has been cut back Plus the long-standing semi fast Charing Cross to Gillingham rail service was replaced by and all stops Thameslink service and in 2022 the Woolwich line will lose Charing Cross trains for good, meaning no more direct connection to the West End, the 53 could have been some compensation for this loss but look how that’s gone.... I know CrossRail will take people to the heart of the West End, but not everyone will use CrossRail, twenty years ago people predicted that the 53 would be redundant because of the JLE and look what happened there.... In early 1990s the plan was for there to be a 453 between E&C to Thamesmead while the 53 would have been truncated at New Cross Gate, and the local MP’s at the time were indeed very vocal about this change, hence why when the matter came up again ten years later in the early 2000s, not only did the outer section keep the 53 number but it was truncated just short of Trafalgar Square at Whitehall, while the 453 somewhat partially restore the old 53 routing just beyond Oxford Street to Marylebone, now TfL is in the business of butchering routes in the SE London area, all the while shouting “you have CrossRail, you have CrossRail!!” Some use that will be for commuters in Blackheath or Catford. Just think thirty years ago, Woolwich had two bus routes that went to the West End; the 53 & the 177, both of which had express variants, plus a semi fast train service to Charing Cross, now all thats gone On conversion to opo in the early 1990s I used to take the 177 to Woolwich for a weekly law course, but I had to go to Elephant to get it: like all ex-tram routes that didn't get extended (which was the majority) it never really got to the West End, the Victoria Embankment being the extent of it and many others, soon declining to peaks only because for shoppers etc it didn't fulfill a purpose. I think the 177 was truncated to E&C around 1987/1988, until then it did go as far as Aldwych I think, or perhaps it was the early 90s, I know that it was rerouted to Peckham from E&C in 1994
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Post by route53 on Jun 24, 2019 18:52:50 GMT
Norwood has the 196 which follows the X68/68/468 for most of the way, to Herne Hill then heads off to Brixton, and Croydon has the 50, 109 and 250 to Brixton, the X68 making one stop at Brixton would be utterly pointless. Not just the 196 but the 2, 322 & 432 all link West Norwood & Brixton with the 2 having quite a high peak frequency - Lambeth Lib Dems have always been an odd lot and subsequently, very telling that they rarely get anywhere in a Labour run borough. A certain “exit” from a certain “union” in which the Lib Dem’s are very much in favour “remaining” in could change that come Mayoral election 2020 :-D :-D
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Post by route53 on Jun 24, 2019 18:58:25 GMT
When you think now the plans for the 53 from the late 90s have now been realised really expect the numbers are round the other way. The 53 is ultimately PD to Elephant now but continues a couple more stops due to lack of stand space and the 453 is the proposed 53 from Deptford to Oxo with an extension to Marylebone. It's funny how the 53 has drifted from c london and the higher route number has taken on the core cental london role. I always find it odd that the 53/453 defies the the splitting a Central London route numbering used on the 36/436 and 63/363. Its strange how the higher numbered route is the Central London one in this case but elswhere this is the inverse. I suppose that's because the 53 was cutback from Oxford Circus to Horse Guards with the 453 as mitigation whereas the 436 and 363 are manintaing links caused by shortening the 36 and 63 at the other end The 21 was butchered in the late 1990s with barely any overlap, the very least the 321 could follow the 21 as far as Bricklayers Arms before veering off to E&C rather than keeping it at New Cross, surely E&C to Sidcup isn’t much longer than the 468 route
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 24, 2019 19:31:07 GMT
In fairness the 21 did run in sections with the service from Foots Cray only to Lewisham during the week. Thou Eltham did loose a central link and isn't that far from Central London.
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Post by busaholic on Jun 24, 2019 20:18:57 GMT
On conversion to opo in the early 1990s I used to take the 177 to Woolwich for a weekly law course, but I had to go to Elephant to get it: like all ex-tram routes that didn't get extended (which was the majority) it never really got to the West End, the Victoria Embankment being the extent of it and many others, soon declining to peaks only because for shoppers etc it didn't fulfill a purpose. The 177 converted to OPO in 1972. Slip of the finger - it was 1975 I was using it - post now corrected. Thanks.
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Post by busaholic on Jun 24, 2019 20:22:57 GMT
On conversion to opo in the early 1990s I used to take the 177 to Woolwich for a weekly law course, but I had to go to Elephant to get it: like all ex-tram routes that didn't get extended (which was the majority) it never really got to the West End, the Victoria Embankment being the extent of it and many others, soon declining to peaks only because for shoppers etc it didn't fulfill a purpose. I think the 177 was truncated to E&C around 1987/1988, until then it did go as far as Aldwych I think, or perhaps it was the early 90s, I know that it was rerouted to Peckham from E&C in 1994 No, other than early journeys to Embankment it was cut back to Elephant in 1971, a few months before opo conversion. I've now corrected my undeliberate error of date of opo conversion.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 24, 2019 20:36:17 GMT
I think the 21 should have remained to Eltham tbh with the 321 maybe every 10nto 12 mins Lewisham to Foots Cray. At one point the 21 only took about 35 mins on a Saturday and Sunday as it only when to LB. Atleast it's gained more of a role now going to Newington Green.
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Post by route53 on Jun 25, 2019 15:41:55 GMT
I think the 21 should have remained to Eltham tbh with the 321 maybe every 10nto 12 mins Lewisham to Foots Cray. At one point the 21 only took about 35 mins on a Saturday and Sunday as it only when to LB. Atleast it's gained more of a role now going to Newington Green. Yes Eltham is where the 21 should have been cut back to, it could have terminated at the bus/train station.
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Post by route53 on Jul 15, 2019 17:08:20 GMT
How long has the X68 been running? I would love for there to be a network of express routes in London (similar to the Green Line) But this could be the RedLine, radical express routes along the 18, 25, 43, 53, 91, 109 routes, the 68 & 207 already have this in the form of the X68 & 607 You would have to get rid of the traffic on the A23 first for any sort of express route along the 109's route to work. The X68 only survives because it's corridor isn't as traffic intensive (even then, the express section runs via Brixton to slightly speed up journey times) and the fact that the connections it's offers can't be done by rail. An express 109 (X109 or 609) could run from Purley and/or New Addington all stops to West Croydon then it can run non stop via the route 50, the back roads of Thornton Heath and Norbury, to Streatham, avoiding the A23, could this work?
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Post by vjaska on Jul 15, 2019 17:43:37 GMT
You would have to get rid of the traffic on the A23 first for any sort of express route along the 109's route to work. The X68 only survives because it's corridor isn't as traffic intensive (even then, the express section runs via Brixton to slightly speed up journey times) and the fact that the connections it's offers can't be done by rail. An express 109 (X109 or 609) could run from Purley and/or New Addington all stops to West Croydon then it can run non stop via the route 50, the back roads of Thornton Heath and Norbury, to Streatham, avoiding the A23, could this work? You’ll still meet the traffic & A23 at Norbury - from St. Leonard’s Church right down to Broad Green is generally traffic filled. It’s a nice idea but I can’t see it working in practice.
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Post by route53 on Jul 15, 2019 20:41:15 GMT
I had an idea a while ago about making the 53 run non stop between E&C and NX, omitting Bricklayer’s Arms and the the entire OKR, Passengers along the OKR generally want destinations further into the West End which can be achieved via the 453 while any eastbound beyond Deptford can change at NX.
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