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Post by joefrombow on Oct 4, 2023 11:32:02 GMT
It is interesting though and another way to back Labour into a corner. If Labour commit to fully implementing it if they win the next general and then discover they can’t do it then it becomes even more embarrassing for them. Just another way to embarrass a likely incoming government. Can't imagine they're being backed into a corner, Labour's policies have gone from being untenable in around 2019 to becoming realistic now since they're very quickly becoming a government in waiting. I'd be shocked if Labour blindly made this promise without scrutinising finances themselves. There's a video online of Kier Starmer literally backtracking on loads of things he says he follows the wind whatevers popular he will go with , same with Rishi they test the waters let out a rumour see how it goes then decide wether to implement said policy say what you want about Corbyn but at least he stuck by what he said and didn't dilly-dally depending what way the wind was blowing , which ever party ends up in they all say one thing and do another two sides of the same bird the left wing or the right wing , As for HS2 didn't the Chinese say they could build it in 5 years for a lot cheaper price or was this another railway sure I remember reading this few years ago ? Edited yes they did www.ft.com/content/d5b6aaaa-4f1a-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5
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Post by borneobus on Oct 4, 2023 11:32:25 GMT
The UK government is weak willed and cannot keep its promises. That’s the message this sends out to the world and to businesses looking to invest. We look at the cost of building HS2, but we don’t look at the cost of not building it. The UK is penny wise, pound foolish. To be fair, London already has decent links to Birmingham. And we’re still getting HS2 because of the stupid decision to start work in the south and kick the economically hardest part of the project in the north down the road. The people I feel for are in the north. Journeys like Leeds to Manchester are horrible for such a small distance and should be much faster and more reliable. Better infrastructure in the north like HS2 and the so called Northern Powerhouse would have lead to more businesses and people choosing to be based there, rather than jobs and people all flowing into the south. Spare a thought for all those duped northerners who bought into the hollow promise of the “Northern Powerhouse”, 40 new hospitals and “levelling up”. What a slap in the face to the electorate. We vote for political parties, not prime ministers. Therefore the party elected has a responsibility to deliver on the manifesto it was elected upon. Absolute shambles. Against the backdrop of rumour and speculation, and now announcement regarding HS2 I’ve thought for a while how fortunate we were that the Elizabeth Line was completed.
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Post by busman on Oct 4, 2023 11:37:15 GMT
Can't imagine they're being backed into a corner, Labour's policies have gone from being untenable in around 2019 to becoming realistic now since they're very quickly becoming a government in waiting. I'd be shocked if Labour blindly made this promise without scrutinising finances themselves. There's a video online of Kier Starmer literally backtracking on loads of things he says he follows the wind whatevers popular he will go with , same with Rishi they test the waters let out a rumour see how it goes then decide wether to implement said policy say what you want about Corbyn but at least he stuck by what he said and didn't dilly-dally depending what way the wind was blowing , which ever party ends up in they all say one thing and do another two sides of the same bird the left wing or the right wing , As for HS2 didn't the Chinese say they could build it in 5 years for a lot cheaper price or was this another railway sure I remember reading this few years ago ? If they were using Chinese workers and working conditions they could build all phases in 5 years no problem. Construction would be 24hrs a day, they could dig up everything that got in their way and health & safety wouldn’t be as big a deal as it is here. No doubt China could provide the infrastructure at an attractive price, but the bottleneck would be our red tape.
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 4, 2023 11:37:41 GMT
Labour seem to be making a lot of promises then backtracking a few days later. Like planning to remove charitable status of private schools and then no longer doing that two days later. How long before Kier Starmer has no more stability than an ice cube in the sun? Are you blind to the absolute mess the Tories have made of this country from austerity up until now? Seriously, the UK is on its knees. People in other countries are looking at the UK in bewilderment at the level of dysfunction we have. Words are cheap. Look at the actions and outcomes of those who actually had the power to lead this country. Is the UK a better place now compared to 13 years ago? I’m not saying Labour are the answer, but surely they cannot do worse than the current lot. Nitpicking over something hypothetical and not even in a manifesto is a minor matter compared to 13 years of failure, u-turns, lies, and hypocrisy (lockdown rules anyone?). I’m not blind to it, but labour promising more and more just to win votes just isn’t realistic. How long before they decided they can’t do half the stuff they have said they will do and we are in no better position. The fact is things are going to get a lot worse regardless of who is in power.
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Post by borneobus on Oct 4, 2023 11:43:52 GMT
Like I said, it's now a very realistic chance that Labour will be forming the next government. They need to be serious and actually deliver on their promises made in their future manifesto rather than lying like this government. All governments lie, it’s just we live in an age of clickbait journalism so this has only become prevalent knowledge in the last decade as media outlets strive to remain relevant, visible and financially viable. Nobody seemed to care when Tony Blair took us into an illegal war based in a lie or when Margaret Thatcher lied to miners. This is the worst time in living memory for any side to form a government because they will all be plagued by The “They are all as bad as each other” argument…another of course is “If you think this lot is bad, wait ‘til you see what the other lot does”
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Post by busman on Oct 4, 2023 11:55:16 GMT
Are you blind to the absolute mess the Tories have made of this country from austerity up until now? Seriously, the UK is on its knees. People in other countries are looking at the UK in bewilderment at the level of dysfunction we have. Words are cheap. Look at the actions and outcomes of those who actually had the power to lead this country. Is the UK a better place now compared to 13 years ago? I’m not saying Labour are the answer, but surely they cannot do worse than the current lot. Nitpicking over something hypothetical and not even in a manifesto is a minor matter compared to 13 years of failure, u-turns, lies, and hypocrisy (lockdown rules anyone?). I’m not blind to it, but labour promising more and more just to win votes just isn’t realistic. How long before they decided they can’t do half the stuff they have said they will do and we are in no better position. The fact is things are going to get a lot worse regardless of who is in power. Things will get worse on the current trajectory. But they do not have to. Stability in policy for the future of the country is essential. I don’t have any confidence in the current lot to deliver that stability. Until its in a manifesto, nothing is promised. That goes for any political party. I repeat, words are cheap. For now, all parties are testing ideas among the general public to see what is popular and what isn’t. Let’s look at the manifestos and those are promises parties are elected on to keep. Labour won’t commit on big ticket items until they see the actual finances. In cases of national strategic interest (e.g. the recently approved oil & gas licenses) the opposition has clearly stated they will not be reversed. It’s a quietly sensible approach and to me it demonstrates a maturity in decision making that the current government lacks.
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 4, 2023 11:56:24 GMT
All governments lie, it’s just we live in an age of clickbait journalism so this has only become prevalent knowledge in the last decade as media outlets strive to remain relevant, visible and financially viable. Nobody seemed to care when Tony Blair took us into an illegal war based in a lie or when Margaret Thatcher lied to miners. This is the worst time in living memory for any side to form a government because they will all be plagued by The “They are all as bad as each other” argument…another of course is “If you think this lot is bad, wait ‘til you see what the other lot does” They are all as bad as each other. Show me an honest politician and I’ll show you a machine that can convert copper to gold. It’s just we live in age where things are far more open to scrutiny because any old crackpot like Carol Vorderman can make noise on Twitter. That didn’t exist to the same extent as it does today before 2010, but if it did the Blair/Brown era government and even the Cameron government would have been open to far more toxic commentary than they were.
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 4, 2023 12:08:28 GMT
I’m not blind to it, but labour promising more and more just to win votes just isn’t realistic. How long before they decided they can’t do half the stuff they have said they will do and we are in no better position. The fact is things are going to get a lot worse regardless of who is in power. Things will get worse on the current trajectory. But they do not have to. Stability in policy for the future of the country is essential. I don’t have any confidence in the current lot to deliver that stability. Until it’s in a manifesto, nothing is promised. That goes for any political party. I repeat, words are cheap. For now, all parties are testing ideas among the general public to see what is popular and what isn’t. Let’s look at the manifestos and those are promises parties are elected on to keep. Labour won’t commit on big ticket items until they see the actual finances. In cases of national strategic interest (e.g. the recently approved oil & gas licenses) the opposition has clearly stated they will not be reversed. It’s a quietly sensible approach and to me it demonstrates a maturity in decision making that the current government lacks. Interesting that you see announcing and then backtracking to the voting public a test bed of ideas because I see it as weakness from Labour. It makes them look weak as they cannot commit to anything, always slightly altering it to fit the narrative. If they are prepared to do this now god only knows how far they would deviate from manifesto pledges and then the country is in no better a position. Let’s be honest Starmer might be the answer but he is not the solution to the countries problems. I give him a year as PM before he is ousted and god only help us if we end up with someone like Angela Rayner as PM. The only phrase suitable for her is a chav with money. Although I suppose she will be relatable to the other chavs and scallys, not that they’ve ever had a collective though that didn’t start “uh, duh”
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Post by busman on Oct 4, 2023 12:19:15 GMT
Things will get worse on the current trajectory. But they do not have to. Stability in policy for the future of the country is essential. I don’t have any confidence in the current lot to deliver that stability. Until it’s in a manifesto, nothing is promised. That goes for any political party. I repeat, words are cheap. For now, all parties are testing ideas among the general public to see what is popular and what isn’t. Let’s look at the manifestos and those are promises parties are elected on to keep. Labour won’t commit on big ticket items until they see the actual finances. In cases of national strategic interest (e.g. the recently approved oil & gas licenses) the opposition has clearly stated they will not be reversed. It’s a quietly sensible approach and to me it demonstrates a maturity in decision making that the current government lacks. Interesting that you see announcing and then backtracking to the voting public a test bed of ideas because I see it as weakness from Labour. It makes them look weak as they cannot commit to anything, always slightly altering it to fit the narrative. If they are prepared to do this now god only knows how far they would deviate from manifesto pledges and then the country is in no better a position. Let’s be honest Starmer might be the answer but he is not the solution to the countries problems. I give him a year as PM before he is ousted and god only help us if we end up with someone like Angela Rayner as PM. The only phrase suitable for her is a chav with money. Although I suppose she will be relatable to the other chavs and scallys, not that they’ve ever had a collective though that didn’t start “uh, duh” Not sure about that chav slur. Doesn’t sit right with me. Perhaps it’s because of that kind of judgemental attitude that I watered down my council estate London twang to a Kings English radio style voice so I don’t have to deal with such silly prejudices and get people to focus on what I’m actually saying. The UK is diverse and our parliament should reflect that too. I judge political parties and politicians by their policies - maybe I’m in a minority these days. Angela Rayner has as much right to have a seat at the table as someone such as Jacob Rees Mogg. She is a bit far left for my personal preference and perhaps is in her role to appease the hard left of the party as it transitions away from the Corbyn years, but that’s about it.
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Post by joefrombow on Oct 4, 2023 12:22:55 GMT
Things will get worse on the current trajectory. But they do not have to. Stability in policy for the future of the country is essential. I don’t have any confidence in the current lot to deliver that stability. Until it’s in a manifesto, nothing is promised. That goes for any political party. I repeat, words are cheap. For now, all parties are testing ideas among the general public to see what is popular and what isn’t. Let’s look at the manifestos and those are promises parties are elected on to keep. Labour won’t commit on big ticket items until they see the actual finances. In cases of national strategic interest (e.g. the recently approved oil & gas licenses) the opposition has clearly stated they will not be reversed. It’s a quietly sensible approach and to me it demonstrates a maturity in decision making that the current government lacks. Interesting that you see announcing and then backtracking to the voting public a test bed of ideas because I see it as weakness from Labour. It makes them look weak as they cannot commit to anything, always slightly altering it to fit the narrative. If they are prepared to do this now god only knows how far they would deviate from manifesto pledges and then the country is in no better a position. Let’s be honest Starmer might be the answer but he is not the solution to the countries problems. I give him a year as PM before he is ousted and god only help us if we end up with someone like Angela Rayner as PM. The only phrase suitable for her is a chav with money. Although I suppose she will be relatable to the other chavs and scallys, not that they’ve ever had a collective though that didn’t start “uh, duh” Why is she a chav with money because she doesn't speak like a with a plummy tone ? 😂 could say the same about 30p lee
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Post by joefrombow on Oct 4, 2023 12:28:18 GMT
There's a video online of Kier Starmer literally backtracking on loads of things he says he follows the wind whatevers popular he will go with , same with Rishi they test the waters let out a rumour see how it goes then decide wether to implement said policy say what you want about Corbyn but at least he stuck by what he said and didn't dilly-dally depending what way the wind was blowing , which ever party ends up in they all say one thing and do another two sides of the same bird the left wing or the right wing , As for HS2 didn't the Chinese say they could build it in 5 years for a lot cheaper price or was this another railway sure I remember reading this few years ago ? If they were using Chinese workers and working conditions they could build all phases in 5 years no problem. Construction would be 24hrs a day, they could dig up everything that got in their way and health & safety wouldn’t be as big a deal as it is here. No doubt China could provide the infrastructure at an attractive price, but the bottleneck would be our red tape. This is true but surely they would of done due diligence of UK H&S rules etc , planning and worked out what they could and couldn't of done ? And would of been at a lower cost regardless ? We seem to be scared of the Chinese Government having influence on anything yet nigh on everything is made in China it just makes no sense to me but as for HS2 maybe upgrading the infrastructure between Brum and Manchester is the best thing they can do but the whole scheme is crazy really , we already have two railways between London and Birmingham , The whole project is a vanity project on steroids, the cost is just going to keep spiraling especially with material & labour costs rising .
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 4, 2023 12:29:14 GMT
Interesting that you see announcing and then backtracking to the voting public a test bed of ideas because I see it as weakness from Labour. It makes them look weak as they cannot commit to anything, always slightly altering it to fit the narrative. If they are prepared to do this now god only knows how far they would deviate from manifesto pledges and then the country is in no better a position. Let’s be honest Starmer might be the answer but he is not the solution to the countries problems. I give him a year as PM before he is ousted and god only help us if we end up with someone like Angela Rayner as PM. The only phrase suitable for her is a chav with money. Although I suppose she will be relatable to the other chavs and scallys, not that they’ve ever had a collective though that didn’t start “uh, duh” Why is she a chav with money because she doesn't speak like a with a plummy tone ? 😂 could say the same about 30p lee It’s not that she just comes across as low brow. I’m not discriminating as you’re right 30p Lee does as well. Perhaps it’s just northerners, but then I consider anything north of Camden northern England 😂
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Post by borneobus on Oct 4, 2023 12:34:25 GMT
The “They are all as bad as each other” argument…another of course is “If you think this lot is bad, wait ‘til you see what the other lot does” They are all as bad as each other. Show me an honest politician and I’ll show you a machine that can convert copper to gold. It’s just we live in age where things are far more open to scrutiny because any old crackpot like Carol Vorderman can make noise on Twitter. That didn’t exist to the same extent as it does today before 2010, but if it did the Blair/Brown era government and even the Cameron government would have been open to far more toxic commentary than they were. I think that’s a little unfair. In a group of 650 MPs there will be a number, of varying political persuasions, who work hard and selflessly for their constituents and the ‘greater good’ - same for local politicians all the way down to parish councillors.
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 4, 2023 12:56:38 GMT
They are all as bad as each other. Show me an honest politician and I’ll show you a machine that can convert copper to gold. It’s just we live in age where things are far more open to scrutiny because any old crackpot like Carol Vorderman can make noise on Twitter. That didn’t exist to the same extent as it does today before 2010, but if it did the Blair/Brown era government and even the Cameron government would have been open to far more toxic commentary than they were. I think that’s a little unfair. In a group of 650 MPs there will be a number, of varying political persuasions, who work hard and selflessly for their constituents and the ‘greater good’ - same for local politicians all the way down to parish councillors. I don’t think it’s unfair, there is no such thing as a selfless act. If you can find one who is genuinely hardworking, selfless and most importantly 100% honest then I’ll happily retract my comment. As they don’t exist I don’t think I’ll have to.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 4, 2023 13:13:51 GMT
I think that’s a little unfair. In a group of 650 MPs there will be a number, of varying political persuasions, who work hard and selflessly for their constituents and the ‘greater good’ - same for local politicians all the way down to parish councillors. I don’t think it’s unfair, there is no such thing as a selfless act. If you can find one who is genuinely hardworking, selfless and most importantly 100% honest then I’ll happily retract my comment. As they don’t exist I don’t think I’ll have to. Tory MP David Amess - when he passed, no one in his constituency in Southend had a bad word to say about him and so many recalled a time where he helped them. Given what most think of politicians, that's got to mean something?
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