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Post by mkay315 on Oct 5, 2023 9:07:26 GMT
All I'm going to say on this topic is two words. Money Washing.
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Post by joefrombow on Oct 5, 2023 9:52:55 GMT
All I'm going to say on this topic is two words. Money Washing. Jobs for the boys 🤝✉️
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Post by mkay315 on Oct 5, 2023 10:10:20 GMT
All I'm going to say on this topic is two words. Money Washing. Jobs for the boys 🤝✉️ 🤣 🤝
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Post by vjaska on Oct 5, 2023 11:43:15 GMT
It was bad enough that the Leeds leg got cut a few years back and now this. All I can say is certain firms managed to get a big payday from this work. Then again I'm not surprised with the amount of money that was initially squandered from this project. The Elizabeth Line is an example of this but that's a conversation for another time. I was always critical of HS2. It was going on the back of HS1 and I really do not understand it if journey times over standard are not that much. IS the capacity needed? I remember many on here were critical of it but now when they are hearing it being scrapped they are up in arms. My biggest concern was the cost, it is a serious rip off for years, even before covid. The fact the Chinese said they could do it within a quarter of the time and substantially less, goes to show that many of these companies over here are just rip off and simply over-pricing things. As you have mentioned, I cannot understand how the Crossrail ended up costing so much, the same for the Jubilee line extension. It is one of the reasons I really am not a fan of crossrail 2. I’ve never been in favour in it, however once you actually commit to it and have built or building a serious chunk of it, it’s stupid to pull out as your left with a halfway house that benefits few. Things may cost a lot more than they should but ultimately, this country is seriously far behind when it comes to building important infrastructure like the above ones
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Post by joefrombow on Oct 5, 2023 12:11:13 GMT
I was always critical of HS2. It was going on the back of HS1 and I really do not understand it if journey times over standard are not that much. IS the capacity needed? I remember many on here were critical of it but now when they are hearing it being scrapped they are up in arms. My biggest concern was the cost, it is a serious rip off for years, even before covid. The fact the Chinese said they could do it within a quarter of the time and substantially less, goes to show that many of these companies over here are just rip off and simply over-pricing things. As you have mentioned, I cannot understand how the Crossrail ended up costing so much, the same for the Jubilee line extension. It is one of the reasons I really am not a fan of crossrail 2. I’ve never been in favour in it, however once you actually commit to it and have built or building a serious chunk of it, it’s stupid to pull out as your left with a halfway house that benefits few. Things may cost a lot more than they should but ultimately, this country is seriously far behind when it comes to building important infrastructure like the above ones This is true but won't this be a Glorified Cycle Super Highway of sorts ? It will only be mainly used during the peaks by people who can afford the premium , the same way the Cycle Super Highways are only really used by peak time middle to upper class businessmen during the peaks , (oh and now Uber Eats Drivers but they weren't around back in 2010) but the cost to benefit ratio isn't that great ? But as you say if they don't go finish the job as planned it will just be a really expensive white elephant , d*mned either way now spend more crazy amounts of money but get job done , or already spent crazy amounts of money but line covers what could already be done but 20 minutes quicker I thought the future of fast travel was the Virgin Hyperloop anyway whatever ever happened to that 😂 www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/hyperloop-one-richard-branson-virgin-investment-london-scotland-transport-travel-fast-a7998106.html
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Post by greenboy on Oct 5, 2023 16:07:44 GMT
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 5, 2023 16:19:01 GMT
If that the case you might as well just scrap the whole thing. Who is going to use HS2 to Old Oak Common when you can get a conventional train to Euston ... the 3 minutes saved, will become 30 minutes lost!
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Post by matthieu1221 on Oct 5, 2023 21:27:12 GMT
It was bad enough that the Leeds leg got cut a few years back and now this. All I can say is certain firms managed to get a big payday from this work. Then again I'm not surprised with the amount of money that was initially squandered from this project. The Elizabeth Line is an example of this but that's a conversation for another time. I was always critical of HS2. It was going on the back of HS1 and I really do not understand it if journey times over standard are not that much. IS the capacity needed? I remember many on here were critical of it but now when they are hearing it being scrapped they are up in arms. My biggest concern was the cost, it is a serious rip off for years, even before covid. The fact the Chinese said they could do it within a quarter of the time and substantially less, goes to show that many of these companies over here are just rip off and simply over-pricing things. As you have mentioned, I cannot understand how the Crossrail ended up costing so much, the same for the Jubilee line extension. It is one of the reasons I really am not a fan of crossrail 2. Fraction of the cost and faster sure, but quality of construction, debatable. Coming from someone with firsthand experience in the sharp dive in construction quality in Hong Kong since (mainland) Chinese firms started dominating construction contracts.
Edit: as a matter of fact, we didn't get faster construction. Completion dates got pushed back years.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 5, 2023 21:50:52 GMT
I was always critical of HS2. It was going on the back of HS1 and I really do not understand it if journey times over standard are not that much. IS the capacity needed? I remember many on here were critical of it but now when they are hearing it being scrapped they are up in arms. My biggest concern was the cost, it is a serious rip off for years, even before covid. The fact the Chinese said they could do it within a quarter of the time and substantially less, goes to show that many of these companies over here are just rip off and simply over-pricing things. As you have mentioned, I cannot understand how the Crossrail ended up costing so much, the same for the Jubilee line extension. It is one of the reasons I really am not a fan of crossrail 2. I’ve never been in favour in it, however once you actually commit to it and have built or building a serious chunk of it, it’s stupid to pull out as your left with a halfway house that benefits few. Things may cost a lot more than they should but ultimately, this country is seriously far behind when it comes to building important infrastructure like the above ones Well, we would see if Starmer would commit to it if he wins next year.
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Post by buspete on Oct 6, 2023 0:28:52 GMT
As an ardent remainer, I thought a benefit of Brexit is that we could build a world class railway.
Well seems I was very wrong.
How could the Victorians built hundreds of miles of railway and we being more developed now, we cannot even do that, it is appalling.
I would build HS2 to both Leeds/Manchester, along with the Northern Powerhouse.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 6, 2023 1:40:16 GMT
As an ardent remainer, I thought a benefit of Brexit is that we could build a world class railway. Well seems I was very wrong. How could the Victorians built hundreds of miles of railway and we being more developed now, we cannot even do that, it is appalling. I would build HS2 to both Leeds/Manchester, along with the Northern Powerhouse. Because the Victorians got on with building it rather than either penny pinching or arguing over this, that and the other.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 6, 2023 9:51:27 GMT
As an ardent remainer, I thought a benefit of Brexit is that we could build a world class railway. Well seems I was very wrong. How could the Victorians built hundreds of miles of railway and we being more developed now, we cannot even do that, it is appalling. I would build HS2 to both Leeds/Manchester, along with the Northern Powerhouse. Because the Victorians got on with building it rather than either penny pinching or arguing over this, that and the other. Also then, most railways were done privately. Now a lot of it is done by the state with private companies looking at every opportunity to rip the state off.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Oct 7, 2023 12:15:21 GMT
Stupid decision but nothing new from this government - I've heard but not if it's been confirmed that HS2 will still reach Manchester but between Birmingham & Manchester, it will use existing lines? It is interesting though and another way to back Labour into a corner. If Labour commit to fully implementing it if they win the next general and then discover they can’t do it then it becomes even more embarrassing for them. Just another way to embarrass a likely incoming government. To a large extent that depends on whether the Tories keep or sell the land intended for HS2. If they sell it first it will be too late to build it on the same routing.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 7, 2023 12:25:51 GMT
It is interesting though and another way to back Labour into a corner. If Labour commit to fully implementing it if they win the next general and then discover they can’t do it then it becomes even more embarrassing for them. Just another way to embarrass a likely incoming government. To a large extent that depends on whether the Tories keep or sell the land intended for HS2. If they sell it first it will be too late to build it on the same routing. Some papers are reporting that they are offering homes back on land originally purchased for HS2 though people will have to pay more now than when they sold just for a nice kick in the teeth. That said, it’s also reported that compulsory purchase orders are still taking place despite the section now scrapped
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 7, 2023 12:26:41 GMT
It is interesting though and another way to back Labour into a corner. If Labour commit to fully implementing it if they win the next general and then discover they can’t do it then it becomes even more embarrassing for them. Just another way to embarrass a likely incoming government. To a large extent that depends on whether the Tories keep or sell the land intended for HS2. If they sell it first it will be too late to build it on the same routing. They would also have to cancel the projects the funding has been diverted to, which might not be popular, unless we are going to see a return of the magic Labour money pot.
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