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Post by routew15 on Aug 26, 2023 13:03:26 GMT
Well you’re not speaking on my behalf there sorry. I use the overground daily and would find it beyond advantageous to know the difference between the line I use having severe delays and the Watford DC line being the affected route. Seeing the status update board show severe delays on the overground can be frustrating, only for you to then read it is nothing to do with your line. I cannot wait for the changes and kind of wish TfL would get on with it and stop reannouncing it every few months. I understand what you're saying but surely all that's needed is clearer updates, ie delays on LO between X and Y as would happen on the SouthEastern network for example? Disagree sorry cause that is essentially what we have now. Once you open the status update it shows X to Y delayed. If it is fine for the Overground to continue to appear as one network, then why is no one asking for the Underground to appear as one entity also… and you then discern whether it the Epping to West Ruislip delayed or Upminster to Tower Hill… For an East London Line user, currently if there were a delay on the Overground between Upminster and Romford it can first appear as though your line also currently affected. A network as extensive as the Overground should be visually easy to understand line-by-line and currently I do not feel that is the case
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Post by routew15 on Aug 26, 2023 13:08:16 GMT
Well you’re not speaking on my behalf there sorry. I use the overground daily and would find it beyond advantageous to know the difference between the line I use having severe delays and the Watford DC line being the affected route. Seeing the status update board show severe delays on the overground can be frustrating, only for you to then read it is nothing to do with your line. I cannot wait for the changes and kind of wish TfL would get on with it and stop reannouncing it every few months. So you’ve noticed delays, read the board like you should and discovered it isn’t your line affected. So you did everything you’re supposed to do, so exactly where is the problem? Saving yourself 2 seconds will make all the difference, I’m sure. It’s just another part of the dumbing down of our nation. Perhaps they should rename all branch lines on the tube next? Give the Wimbledon to Edgware Road District Line branch a different name because it’d be easier to figure out delays? So by your logic the Underground should also appear as one entity on the status update board then. I guess it is only Overground users that need to waste 2 secs to view where is delayed across the entire network… No point presenting information at a glance, just show Underground Severe Delays and then you tap and find out if it is the route between Walthamstow Central and Brixton or STRatford and Stanmore.
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Post by southlondon413 on Aug 26, 2023 13:13:24 GMT
So you’ve noticed delays, read the board like you should and discovered it isn’t your line affected. So you did everything you’re supposed to do, so exactly where is the problem? Saving yourself 2 seconds will make all the difference, I’m sure. It’s just another part of the dumbing down of our nation. Perhaps they should rename all branch lines on the tube next? Give the Wimbledon to Edgware Road District Line branch a different name because it’d be easier to figure out delays? So by your logic the Underground should also appear as one entity on the status update board then. I guess it is only Overground users that need to waste 2 secs to view where is delayed across the entire network… No point presenting information at a glance, just show Underground Severe Delays and then you tap and find out if it is the route between Walthamstow Central and Brixton or STRatford and Stanmore. You’re just putting words out there because I didn’t say that. You can clearly do it so why do you think it’s needs to be dumbed down? If in doubt you could ask a member of staff, that is what they are paid for or is TfL still intent on making their jobs as easy as possible?
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 26, 2023 13:40:02 GMT
However it is a large, nearly 10%, slice of the operating profit TfL is expected to make. It’s unnecessary and really patronising to regular Overground passengers.Well you’re not speaking on my behalf there sorry. I use the overground daily and would find it beyond advantageous to know the difference between the line I use having severe delays and the Watford DC line being the affected route. Seeing the status update board show severe delays on the overground can be frustrating, only for you to then read it is nothing to do with your line. I cannot wait for the changes and kind of wish TfL would get on with it and stop reannouncing it every few months. One problem with renaming the lines might be what to name the lines out of Liverpool Street because IIRC units interwork the Lea Valley routes and the Romford-Upminster branches. How about East London Lines out of Liv Street and Romford to Upminster, South London Line down to New Cross/Clapham Junction/West Croydon/Crystal Palace, Richmond/Camden Road/Clapham Junction - Stratford as the North London Line, Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside as the GOBLIN Line and Euston to Watford Junction as the Watford Line. Then you could name Hounslow/Kew Bridge - West Hampstead/Hendon to West London Line as Orbital is slightly misleading?
If Stratford - Chingford and Meridian Water ever come to fruition would it be appropriate for them to also be named East London Lines?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 26, 2023 13:45:52 GMT
So by your logic the Underground should also appear as one entity on the status update board then. I guess it is only Overground users that need to waste 2 secs to view where is delayed across the entire network… No point presenting information at a glance, just show Underground Severe Delays and then you tap and find out if it is the route between Walthamstow Central and Brixton or STRatford and Stanmore. You’re just putting words out there because I didn’t say that. You can clearly do it so why do you think it’s needs to be dumbed down? If in doubt you could ask a member of staff, that is what they are paid for or is TfL still intent on making their jobs as easy as possible? I think it comes down to how the network is viewed in conjunction to the Underground. If the Underground has different line names, then why is the Overground different? If all the Underground line names vanished overnight and were just referred to as the Underground it would cause nothing but chaos. I think its inevitable that the lines will need to be renamed at some point in the future and there's no time like the present. More lines are going to be joining the network, the SouthEastern Ines by now are a case of when and not if and at the rate this is going the tube map will end up being mostly double orange lines. Introducing separate identities like the Underground will just help everyone that slight bit more. It's already been mentioned that this cost is not much in terms of TfL's overall costs and the benefit from renaming the lines will probably be much greater in the grand scheme.
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Post by enviroPB on Aug 26, 2023 13:48:23 GMT
for an organisation that makes £9 billion in revenue that really isn't that much money. However it is a large, nearly 10%, slice of the operating profit TfL is expected to make. It’s unnecessary and really patronising to regular Overground passengers. Actually it is 0.7% of the budget, so not that significant in the scheme of things.
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Post by enviroPB on Aug 26, 2023 13:56:53 GMT
Well you’re not speaking on my behalf there sorry. I use the overground daily and would find it beyond advantageous to know the difference between the line I use having severe delays and the Watford DC line being the affected route. Seeing the status update board show severe delays on the overground can be frustrating, only for you to then read it is nothing to do with your line. I cannot wait for the changes and kind of wish TfL would get on with it and stop reannouncing it every few months. I understand what you're saying but surely all that's needed is clearer updates, ie delays on LO between X and Y as would happen on the SouthEastern network for example? If TfL were trusted to give out clear & consistent updates, then there would be no need. Instead you might get a message saying the Overground is delayed between Highbury & Islington and Clapham Junction with no additional info, so passengers have to work out where the disruption is (East London line or North London line). I have also spent quite a few minutes at Barking Station waiting for all the different lines to flash up for engineering works on weekends, only to find out that my route is not affected. It will be very beneficial if the different branches of the Overground had names so Joe & Jenny Public can pick up on service information more quickly and more efficiently. Not everyone has the time to be Hercule Poirot to find out about service disruptions on the Overground.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 26, 2023 14:00:29 GMT
for an organisation that makes £9 billion in revenue that really isn't that much money. However it is a large, nearly 10%, slice of the operating profit TfL is expected to make. It’s unnecessary and really patronising to regular Overground passengers. How is it patronising to regular Overground passengers? As someone who regularly uses the North London Line and the GOBLIN, and will have another Overground line nearby, I think it would work wonders it being more clear as to where is disrupted on the Overground network at any given point. Not to mention how confusing the map already looks, and the interiors of 378s and 710s having a monstrous number of individual lines.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 26, 2023 16:33:34 GMT
Well you’re not speaking on my behalf there sorry. I use the overground daily and would find it beyond advantageous to know the difference between the line I use having severe delays and the Watford DC line being the affected route. Seeing the status update board show severe delays on the overground can be frustrating, only for you to then read it is nothing to do with your line. I cannot wait for the changes and kind of wish TfL would get on with it and stop reannouncing it every few months. One problem with renaming the lines might be what to name the lines out of Liverpool Street because IIRC units interwork the Lea Valley routes and the Romford-Upminster branches. How about East London Lines out of Liv Street and Romford to Upminster, South London Line down to New Cross/Clapham Junction/West Croydon/Crystal Palace, Richmond/Camden Road/Clapham Junction - Stratford as the North London Line, Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside as the GOBLIN Line and Euston to Watford Junction as the Watford Line. Then you could name Hounslow/Kew Bridge - West Hampstead/Hendon to West London Line as Orbital is slightly misleading? If Stratford - Chingford and Meridian Water ever come to fruition would it be appropriate for them to also be named East London Lines?
For me, they should use the actual names of the lines that have been in place for years which are: Liverpool Street to Enfield Town/Cheshunt - Lea Valley Lines Liverpool Street to Chingford - Chingford Line Romford to Upminster - Romford to Upminster Line Richmond to Stratford - North London Line Clapham Junction to Stratford - West London Line Clapham Juntion to Highbury & Islington - South London Line West Croydon/Crystal Palace/New Cross to Highbury & Islington - East London Line (as well as Brighton Mainline between New Cross and Selhurst Junction & the branches to West Croydon & Crystal Palace themselves) Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside - GOBLIN (Gospel Oak to Barking) Line Euston to Watford Junction - Watford DC Line Now, you could, as you suggested, merge the Clapham Junction to Stratford service as part of the North London Line instead and keep the West London Line designation spare but I'd personally leave the rest as their already designated names that have existed for years. The misleading part isn't really a big deal as you have things like the Northern running through South London, Central running at times nowhere near the centre and the Circle which whilst still a circle in loose terms, also has a line stuck onto it so isn't a true circle shape wise
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Post by greenboy on Aug 26, 2023 17:37:08 GMT
I understand what you're saying but surely all that's needed is clearer updates, ie delays on LO between X and Y as would happen on the SouthEastern network for example? Disagree sorry cause that is essentially what we have now. Once you open the status update it shows X to Y delayed. If it is fine for the Overground to continue to appear as one network, then why is no one asking for the Underground to appear as one entity also… and you then discern whether it the Epping to West Ruislip delayed or Upminster to Tower Hill… For an East London Line user, currently if there were a delay on the Overground between Upminster and Romford it can first appear as though your line also currently affected. A network as extensive as the Overground should be visually easy to understand line-by-line and currently I do not feel that is the case I just can't see the justification when TfL are apparently broke, the mayor has been claiming that the reduction in government funding is forcing him to scrap the travelcard yet he's got £6m plus to pay for this rather pointless exercise. I agree that "delays on London Overground" isn't very helpful but "no service between Norwood Junction and West Croydon" means the same for LO passengers as it does for Southern passengers.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 26, 2023 19:07:23 GMT
Disagree sorry cause that is essentially what we have now. Once you open the status update it shows X to Y delayed. If it is fine for the Overground to continue to appear as one network, then why is no one asking for the Underground to appear as one entity also… and you then discern whether it the Epping to West Ruislip delayed or Upminster to Tower Hill… For an East London Line user, currently if there were a delay on the Overground between Upminster and Romford it can first appear as though your line also currently affected. A network as extensive as the Overground should be visually easy to understand line-by-line and currently I do not feel that is the case I just can't see the justification when TfL are apparently broke, the mayor has been claiming that the reduction in government funding is forcing him to scrap the travelcard yet he's got £6m plus to pay for this rather pointless exercise. I agree that "delays on London Overground" isn't very helpful but "no service between Norwood Junction and West Croydon" means the same for LO passengers as it does for Southern passengers. This is a lot more worth it, it makes sense to scrap the travelcard as it effectively stops the free travel people kept getting with train tickets so will generate TfL money, while the confusion on the LO is potentially causing less customers than may be possible.
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Post by rif153 on Aug 27, 2023 5:30:37 GMT
Disagree sorry cause that is essentially what we have now. Once you open the status update it shows X to Y delayed. If it is fine for the Overground to continue to appear as one network, then why is no one asking for the Underground to appear as one entity also… and you then discern whether it the Epping to West Ruislip delayed or Upminster to Tower Hill… For an East London Line user, currently if there were a delay on the Overground between Upminster and Romford it can first appear as though your line also currently affected. A network as extensive as the Overground should be visually easy to understand line-by-line and currently I do not feel that is the case I just can't see the justification when TfL are apparently broke, the mayor has been claiming that the reduction in government funding is forcing him to scrap the travelcard yet he's got £6m plus to pay for this rather pointless exercise. I agree that "delays on London Overground" isn't very helpful but "no service between Norwood Junction and West Croydon" means the same for LO passengers as it does for Southern passengers. I think splitting the Overground into separate brands is a good idea because there's such a vast orange network of lines all around London which don't necessarily have anything to do with each other. Having said that I the whole renaming will be another annoying PR stunt just like the Superloop. Hopefully they're a little bit less shameless next time.
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Post by joefrombow on Aug 27, 2023 8:18:03 GMT
Noticed the DLR when approaching Stratford now announces interchange with London Overground "North London Line" which never noticed before a sign of things to come maybe
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Post by capitalomnibus on Sept 1, 2023 9:26:46 GMT
This quote really stood out to me. Mr Dance said: "It is a confusing issue, particularly on the very rare occasions when there is disruption on the network, it is extremely important that passengers get a much more focused set of information on where the issue is." "Very rare occasion" certainly not very rare from my experience. On this basis, they should do the same to the Elizabeth line. As you cannot travel from Shenfield to Reading. it really is two separate railways. The same way how they created the Hammersmith & City out of the Metropolitan and Circle back in the 90's
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 24, 2023 18:19:03 GMT
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