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Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 19, 2023 1:33:38 GMT
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jun 27, 2023 14:21:36 GMT
Some comments on this line because I haven't seen much of it discussed The southern section, while I like the idea of the line going down to Hounslow (get back to that later), I don't quite understand the point of Kew Bridge when Lionel Road is set to be nearby. I know that Old Oak Common Lane is set to be built at some point in the future, however I wonder if it would be worth instead sending those Kew Bridge trains to Ealing Broadway? As has been proved with the success of routes such as the 112 and how busy the North Circular gets when it comes to congestion, I reckon sending trains to Ealing Broadway instead would prove more useful. Lionel Road is an interesting addition as a station and would be especially useful on Brentford match days due to it being right round the corner. However, as for the Hounslow section, providing a few extra trains per hour could continue further south towards Twickenham using the Whitton junction? Currently there is no rail link between Hounslow and Twickenham, and it would use the rarely used Whitton curve, however would the demand be there for a rail link? How busy does the 281 get? The other option for the southern end could be extending it towards Heathrow if the southern link is ever completed towards Feltham. However given the line serves Acton, it would almost certainly be quicker to take the Elizabeth Line from Acton Main Line and changing at Heathrow for Terminal 5 (even if trains are half hourly), however could such a link be useful for the SWR stations the line proposes to serve? As for the northern end of the line, could there be an extension from Hendon towards the Grahame Park development? Maybe there could be an intermediate station on the MML nearby to Grahame Park for the London Overground to serve, although no idea on how feasible that would be. I also don't think Mill Hill Broadway would be feasible for trains to turn around. From West Hampstead however, could there be some effort to try and connect up with the GOBLIN to perhaps create a long orbital line spanning from Barking Riverside to West London? I don't know whether the WLO could use the spur of track further down the MML due to how frequent Thameslink and EMR are and how it would involve crossing the fast lines in order to access the MML from the spur, as well as no longer having a connection between the NLL and GOBLIN/WLO at Gospel Oak. I suppose the only other option would be attempting to bore a tunnel and having an underground Gospel Oak Station, however I'm not sure how well that would go down with residents, or how the line would be able to access West Hampstead due to how built up the area is. Having said that, if a tunnel had been bored from Gospel Oak to West Hampstead, perhaps an intermediate station could also be constructed at Belsize Park, further improving interconnectivity as it would now include a station on the Edgware branch. All within the realms of fantasy, however I'd be interested to hear your thoughts
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Post by wirewiper on Jun 27, 2023 15:30:40 GMT
Some comments on this line because I haven't seen much of it discussed The southern section, while I like the idea of the line going down to Hounslow (get back to that later), I don't quite understand the point of Kew Bridge when Lionel Road is set to be nearby. I know that Old Oak Common Lane is set to be built at some point in the future, however I wonder if it would be worth instead sending those Kew Bridge trains to Ealing Broadway? As has been proved with the success of routes such as the 112 and how busy the North Circular gets when it comes to congestion, I reckon sending trains to Ealing Broadway instead would prove more useful. Lionel Road is an interesting addition as a station and would be especially useful on Brentford match days due to it being right round the corner. However, as for the Hounslow section, providing a few extra trains per hour could continue further south towards Twickenham using the Whitton junction? Currently there is no rail link between Hounslow and Twickenham, and it would use the rarely used Whitton curve, however would the demand be there for a rail link? How busy does the 281 get? The other option for the southern end could be extending it towards Heathrow if the southern link is ever completed towards Feltham. However given the line serves Acton, it would almost certainly be quicker to take the Elizabeth Line from Acton Main Line and changing at Heathrow for Terminal 5 (even if trains are half hourly), however could such a link be useful for the SWR stations the line proposes to serve? As for the northern end of the line, could there be an extension from Hendon towards the Grahame Park development? Maybe there could be an intermediate station on the MML nearby to Grahame Park for the London Overground to serve, although no idea on how feasible that would be. I also don't think Mill Hill Broadway would be feasible for trains to turn around. From West Hampstead however, could there be some effort to try and connect up with the GOBLIN to perhaps create a long orbital line spanning from Barking Riverside to West London? I don't know whether the WLO could use the spur of track further down the MML due to how frequent Thameslink and EMR are and how it would involve crossing the fast lines in order to access the MML from the spur, as well as no longer having a connection between the NLL and GOBLIN/WLO at Gospel Oak. I suppose the only other option would be attempting to bore a tunnel and having an underground Gospel Oak Station, however I'm not sure how well that would go down with residents, or how the line would be able to access West Hampstead due to how built up the area is. Having said that, if a tunnel had been bored from Gospel Oak to West Hampstead, perhaps an intermediate station could also be constructed at Belsize Park, further improving interconnectivity as it would now include a station on the Edgware branch. All within the realms of fantasy, however I'd be interested to hear your thoughts Kew Bridge will be a useful point to terminate trains as they won't be in the way of anything else whilst they stand. The Overground platform(s) would be located on a little-used curve and trains standing at the Overground platform(s) would not obstruct the SWR service. I presume track capacity issues would preclude extending trains beyond Hounslow (not saying a Twickenham service would not be useful though), or further onto the Midland Main Line. I also can't see how extra trains can be squeezed onto the Elizabeth Line at Ealing Broadway - especially if they are terminating there (de-training takes up time). A new tunnel with a Gospel Oak Station built underground would be a phenomenal extra expense and would probably kill the business case for the whole project stone dead! The advantage of the current proposals is that the line can be delivered relatively cheaply in this form, as it is upgrading lines that already exist but are currently underused.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 27, 2023 15:31:57 GMT
Currently there is no rail link between Hounslow and Twickenham, and it would use the rarely used Whitton curve, however would the demand be there for a rail link? Trains operate every 30min each way between Hounslow and Twickenham
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jun 27, 2023 16:10:28 GMT
Some comments on this line because I haven't seen much of it discussed The southern section, while I like the idea of the line going down to Hounslow (get back to that later), I don't quite understand the point of Kew Bridge when Lionel Road is set to be nearby. I know that Old Oak Common Lane is set to be built at some point in the future, however I wonder if it would be worth instead sending those Kew Bridge trains to Ealing Broadway? As has been proved with the success of routes such as the 112 and how busy the North Circular gets when it comes to congestion, I reckon sending trains to Ealing Broadway instead would prove more useful. Lionel Road is an interesting addition as a station and would be especially useful on Brentford match days due to it being right round the corner. However, as for the Hounslow section, providing a few extra trains per hour could continue further south towards Twickenham using the Whitton junction? Currently there is no rail link between Hounslow and Twickenham, and it would use the rarely used Whitton curve, however would the demand be there for a rail link? How busy does the 281 get? The other option for the southern end could be extending it towards Heathrow if the southern link is ever completed towards Feltham. However given the line serves Acton, it would almost certainly be quicker to take the Elizabeth Line from Acton Main Line and changing at Heathrow for Terminal 5 (even if trains are half hourly), however could such a link be useful for the SWR stations the line proposes to serve? As for the northern end of the line, could there be an extension from Hendon towards the Grahame Park development? Maybe there could be an intermediate station on the MML nearby to Grahame Park for the London Overground to serve, although no idea on how feasible that would be. I also don't think Mill Hill Broadway would be feasible for trains to turn around. From West Hampstead however, could there be some effort to try and connect up with the GOBLIN to perhaps create a long orbital line spanning from Barking Riverside to West London? I don't know whether the WLO could use the spur of track further down the MML due to how frequent Thameslink and EMR are and how it would involve crossing the fast lines in order to access the MML from the spur, as well as no longer having a connection between the NLL and GOBLIN/WLO at Gospel Oak. I suppose the only other option would be attempting to bore a tunnel and having an underground Gospel Oak Station, however I'm not sure how well that would go down with residents, or how the line would be able to access West Hampstead due to how built up the area is. Having said that, if a tunnel had been bored from Gospel Oak to West Hampstead, perhaps an intermediate station could also be constructed at Belsize Park, further improving interconnectivity as it would now include a station on the Edgware branch. All within the realms of fantasy, however I'd be interested to hear your thoughts Kew Bridge will be a useful point to terminate trains as they won't be in the way of anything else whilst they stand. The Overground platform(s) would be located on a little-used curve and trains standing at the Overground platform(s) would not obstruct the SWR service. I presume track capacity issues would preclude extending trains beyond Hounslow (not saying a Twickenham service would not be useful though), or further onto the Midland Main Line. I also can't see how extra trains can be squeezed onto the Elizabeth Line at Ealing Broadway - especially if they are terminating there (de-training takes up time). A new tunnel with a Gospel Oak Station built underground would be a phenomenal extra expense and would probably kill the business case for the whole project stone dead! The advantage of the current proposals is that the line can be delivered relatively cheaply in this form, as it is upgrading lines that already exist but are currently underused. I suppose more my criticism of the project is that while it could be useful, it generally seems to copy the Richmond to Stratford line and could be made more useful by extending to join up to other routes (GOBLIN) elsewhere.
Maybe the merger with the GOBLIN could be focused on once the line actually opens. How long would the initial line take to roughly complete?
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Post by YY13VKP on Jun 27, 2023 16:45:33 GMT
Do TfL intend to build any new infrastructure for the section between West Hampstead and Hendon or are they planning on using the existing slow lines? If it’s the latter, I wish them the best of luck finding a compliant path on the already busy Midland Main Line! Though I would also suspect there may be a recast of the timetable to fit London Overground services in.
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Post by wirewiper on Jun 27, 2023 16:48:26 GMT
Do TfL intend to build any new infrastructure for the section between West Hampstead and Hendon or are they planning on using the existing slow lines? If it’s the latter, I wish them the best of luck finding a compliant path on the already busy Midland Main Line! Though I would also suspect there may be a recast of the timetable to fit London Overground services in. There are parallel freight lines in the vicinity, these pass behind the existing Hendon Station so an extra platform could be provided here.
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Jun 27, 2023 19:02:18 GMT
I have to say that this would be a really good addition to the Overground network as it is. The only small thing that I would like to see, however, is interworking with the existing Richmond to Stratford services to include some trains Richmond to Neasden (and beyond) and also Hounslow/Kew Bridge to Stratford. I don't know what the frequencies would be and therefore whether this would be feasible but I think that it would open up new links, fully realising the potential of this scheme. As said, an extension to Twickenham would be useful but not essential and I really like this scheme. I've often suggested some Overground on this line and hope that this comes to fruition.
Can't believe I hadn't stumbled upon this thread before!
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Post by VMH2537 on Jun 27, 2023 19:31:30 GMT
Currently there is no rail link between Hounslow and Twickenham, and it would use the rarely used Whitton curve, however would the demand be there for a rail link? Trains operate every 30min each way between Hounslow and Twickenham These services only operate in the peaks only (Waterloo to Waterloo via Hounslow and Richmond). The Waterloo to Weybridge service provides the current full time service, also running half hourly.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 27, 2023 19:34:09 GMT
Some comments on this line because I haven't seen much of it discussed The southern section, while I like the idea of the line going down to Hounslow (get back to that later), I don't quite understand the point of Kew Bridge when Lionel Road is set to be nearby. I know that Old Oak Common Lane is set to be built at some point in the future, however I wonder if it would be worth instead sending those Kew Bridge trains to Ealing Broadway? As has been proved with the success of routes such as the 112 and how busy the North Circular gets when it comes to congestion, I reckon sending trains to Ealing Broadway instead would prove more useful. Lionel Road is an interesting addition as a station and would be especially useful on Brentford match days due to it being right round the corner. However, as for the Hounslow section, providing a few extra trains per hour could continue further south towards Twickenham using the Whitton junction? Currently there is no rail link between Hounslow and Twickenham, and it would use the rarely used Whitton curve, however would the demand be there for a rail link? How busy does the 281 get? The other option for the southern end could be extending it towards Heathrow if the southern link is ever completed towards Feltham. However given the line serves Acton, it would almost certainly be quicker to take the Elizabeth Line from Acton Main Line and changing at Heathrow for Terminal 5 (even if trains are half hourly), however could such a link be useful for the SWR stations the line proposes to serve? As for the northern end of the line, could there be an extension from Hendon towards the Grahame Park development? Maybe there could be an intermediate station on the MML nearby to Grahame Park for the London Overground to serve, although no idea on how feasible that would be. I also don't think Mill Hill Broadway would be feasible for trains to turn around. From West Hampstead however, could there be some effort to try and connect up with the GOBLIN to perhaps create a long orbital line spanning from Barking Riverside to West London? I don't know whether the WLO could use the spur of track further down the MML due to how frequent Thameslink and EMR are and how it would involve crossing the fast lines in order to access the MML from the spur, as well as no longer having a connection between the NLL and GOBLIN/WLO at Gospel Oak. I suppose the only other option would be attempting to bore a tunnel and having an underground Gospel Oak Station, however I'm not sure how well that would go down with residents, or how the line would be able to access West Hampstead due to how built up the area is. Having said that, if a tunnel had been bored from Gospel Oak to West Hampstead, perhaps an intermediate station could also be constructed at Belsize Park, further improving interconnectivity as it would now include a station on the Edgware branch. All within the realms of fantasy, however I'd be interested to hear your thoughts A new tunnel with a Gospel Oak Station built underground would be a phenomenal extra expense and would probably kill the business case for the whole project stone dead! The advantage of the current proposals is that the line can be delivered relatively cheaply in this form, as it is upgrading lines that already exist but are currently underused. I think this part sums up why things that are needed don't get built in this country - everything is done on the cheap and when it isn't, they blow the budget and the project is delayed by many years instead. Great if the cheap option is the best one in this particular case but 9 times out of 10, it's usually a fudge unlike in European countries or the Far East
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jun 27, 2023 19:55:49 GMT
A new tunnel with a Gospel Oak Station built underground would be a phenomenal extra expense and would probably kill the business case for the whole project stone dead! The advantage of the current proposals is that the line can be delivered relatively cheaply in this form, as it is upgrading lines that already exist but are currently underused. I think this part sums up why things that are needed don't get built in this country - everything is done on the cheap and when it isn't, they blow the budget and the project is delayed by many years instead. Great if the cheap option is the best one in this particular case but 9 times out of 10, it's usually a fudge unlike in European countries or the Far East Of course I appreciate the idea of a tunnel between West Hampstead and Gospel Oak is expensive however what other opposition against it is there? My main reason for suggesting a merger of the two would be to relieve congestion on the A406 by providing a long orbital service that interchanges with a myriad of different lines that take patrons further into the suburbs.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jun 27, 2023 19:58:01 GMT
I have to say that this would be a really good addition to the Overground network as it is. The only small thing that I would like to see, however, is interworking with the existing Richmond to Stratford services to include some trains Richmond to Neasden (and beyond) and also Hounslow/Kew Bridge to Stratford. I don't know what the frequencies would be and therefore whether this would be feasible but I think that it would open up new links, fully realising the potential of this scheme. As said, an extension to Twickenham would be useful but not essential and I really like this scheme. I've often suggested some Overground on this line and hope that this comes to fruition. Can't believe I hadn't stumbled upon this thread before! I more suggested Twickenham because of how busy the rugby gets and how useful the Overground would be.
The frequencies is an interesting question, depends on how they can be worked around freight movements. Having said that the NLL seems to manage fine.
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Post by ADH45258 on Jun 27, 2023 20:05:37 GMT
A new tunnel with a Gospel Oak Station built underground would be a phenomenal extra expense and would probably kill the business case for the whole project stone dead! The advantage of the current proposals is that the line can be delivered relatively cheaply in this form, as it is upgrading lines that already exist but are currently underused. I think this part sums up why things that are needed don't get built in this country - everything is done on the cheap and when it isn't, they blow the budget and the project is delayed by many years instead. Great if the cheap option is the best one in this particular case but 9 times out of 10, it's usually a fudge unlike in European countries or the Far East A good example of this is Paris, where new metro line 15 is currently under construction. It will be an entirely new route, all underground, forming a circle around the city's suburbs and connecting to the termini of many of the existing metro lines. Something like this would be great in London if the budget was there. The Superloop bus will be useful to an extent, the issue is it can't as easily form part of a longer journey due to the different ticketing system to the tube/rail. And obviously is subject to traffic, so much slower journeys than a rail line.
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Post by COBO on Jun 27, 2023 21:40:08 GMT
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Post by mkay315 on Jun 28, 2023 4:38:30 GMT
I do think this is a good new route connection around London. I do think it can help with both the rugby days and the Brentford home match days as well. My thing would be how long it would take to implement this?
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