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Post by northlondon83 on Jun 30, 2023 13:25:04 GMT
More trains into the city from places like Hatch End, Bushey etc. The Overground extension also would provide new links like Queens Park to Camden. There would be broken links however I think that more links would be created than broken They already have a service from those places to Euston and if requiring the West End in particular, can simply change between Harrow & Wealdstone and Queens Park Dropping the Euston service in favour of the West End would bring more advantages than disadvantages, it's a case of losing two stations to gain many more (not including the Kilburn stations since the two are walking distance from each other) |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 30, 2023 13:31:55 GMT
They already have a service from those places to Euston and if requiring the West End in particular, can simply change between Harrow & Wealdstone and Queens Park Dropping the Euston service in favour of the West End would bring more advantages than disadvantages, it's a case of losing two stations to gain many more (not including the Kilburn stations since the two are walking distance from each other) I'm not sure it will personally - in most cases, staying on the Overground to Euston and then changing to the faster Victoria Line would get you there quicker given the Bakerloo is less frequent and slower |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 19, 2023 11:56:57 GMT
I'm not entirely convinced by the exact plans for this route. In particular, I don't think there's much point in splitting to two branches at each end, it will only mean less frequency to each. At the northern end, I certainly don't see the need to go to West Hampstead. The Jubilee Line already links to Neasden, and the Overground via Willesden Junction and Acton - both being more direct than the West London Orbital. Brent Cross West makes sense, and I think would be the best place to terminate trains, both as a more major destination, and with the infrastructure of the new station perhaps giving more space for additional platforms. Thameslink will provide 6tph through Brent Cross West for connections to Cricklewood/Hendon/Mill Hill etc. At the south, terminating some trains at Kew Bridge seems pointless, as the new Lionel Road station is round the corner (as well as Gunnersbury nearby on the NLL), and passengers from Chiswick/Barnes can change at Brentford if needed. Or could even replace both with one new combined station slightly to the west? I also think the new line will create a bit of a mess when combined with the existing Overground routes, and could be confusing to some passengers. My suggestion would be to split the NLL/WLL into two routes, incorporating parts of the West Londob Orbital - along with a rebuild of Willesden Junction to create a Stratford/Clapham style hub station. So services from Stratford would simply all run through via Acton Central, then alternating between Richmond and Hounslow. Then services from Clapham Junction would run through to Brent Cross West. North of Shepherds Bush, trains would switch to the tracks used by Southern services, with new east-west platforms built at Willesden Junction slightly to the south of the current station. Then a new curve of track linking to the Dudden Hill Line, before crossing the WCML to stop at Harlesden, and continuing to Neasden and Brent Cross. The rebuild of Willesden Junction would also mean Southern services to Watford would be withdrawn. New platforms would allow LNR services from Euston to Tring/MKC to stop there, where passengers would be able to change to the Overground for further connections including towards Clapham Junction. I think West Hampstead is an excellent destination, connects with Jubilee, Richmond/CJ to Stratford line and Thameslink. I'd have the southern end extended to Richmond calling at Twickenham and Richmond only. As others have said that Twickenham would be good on rugby days but Richmond would also connection with the District line and Richmond to Stratford service. The only disadvantage is that it is quite an indirect route. I'd also cut the Overground back to Queen's Park, then send some Bakerloo line trains that terminate there off to Watford Junction. I'd also use the curve of track near Adelaide Road and extend to Stratford. I know this is about a month old but I do like some of the suggestions here, so I’ll detail plans I’d make. There have been suggestions made by a freight report that by reinstating Platform 3 at Camden Road, a 50% more frequent service on the North London Line could operate to and from Stratford. When the Overground first started out, it was tipped that half the service would terminate at Camden Road, however as we now see, there are 10tph during the peaks from Willesden Junction to Stratford via Gospel Oak. Whilst the Camden Highline project would scupper a re increase in service, your suggestion about running trains using the curve of track that the old NSE services from Watford used into Broad Street and what London Overground use on diversion. Instead, I would send the extra 5tph through to the Willesden Junction low level platforms, but use the Watford DC line to reach them. The benefit of doing this is faster journey times between Camden Road and Willesden Junction, and this would take the strain off the North London Line via Gospel Oak. Stations on the Watford DC and existing NLL have similar catchment areas, Queens Park and Brondesbury Park, South Hampstead and Finchley Road & Frognal and Kensal Green and Kensal Rise. So you would be splitting the load between two lines in effect. There are logistic downsides to this though, very commonly freight is waiting on that stretch of track, so some track works would need to be made around there in order for freight trains to be able to wait, or even the section be four tracked, which would not go down well with Camden Market. Another suggestion I saw I believe it was by BE37054 (quoll662) was trains running from the Richmond direction onto the new line heading towards Neasden and Brent Cross. However, as I’ve mentioned previously, if the reopening of the Trumpers Way Line were to be co-incided with the opening of the WLO, with the extension to Brentford, then that could operate as a branch. Whilst Kew Bridge has potential to be a useful branch on the line, unfortunately an extension to Clapham Junction (which would be extremely useful) is impossible given the line is already maxed out in the number of paths available due to the numerous level crossings en-route. By having trains from Richmond towards Harlesden, Neasden and Brent Cross, this could be a force in helping to reduce congestion on the A205 and A406, and could also lead to an increase in capacity between Old Oak Common and Richmond. There would also be 12tph through each Bollo Lane level crossing, which might make pathing trains slightly easier to reduce the impact of the level crossing barriers basically permanently being down otherwise. If the line is to run with a full 8tph frequency, then you could have a service pattern akin to this: - West Hampstead Thameslink - Hounslow (4tph) - Hendon - Southall (2tph) - Hendon - Richmond (2tph) Hope that’s a somewhat insightful take  |
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Aug 19, 2023 18:50:29 GMT
I think West Hampstead is an excellent destination, connects with Jubilee, Richmond/CJ to Stratford line and Thameslink. I'd have the southern end extended to Richmond calling at Twickenham and Richmond only. As others have said that Twickenham would be good on rugby days but Richmond would also connection with the District line and Richmond to Stratford service. The only disadvantage is that it is quite an indirect route. I'd also cut the Overground back to Queen's Park, then send some Bakerloo line trains that terminate there off to Watford Junction. I'd also use the curve of track near Adelaide Road and extend to Stratford. I know this is about a month old but I do like some of the suggestions here, so I’ll detail plans I’d make. There have been suggestions made by a freight report that by reinstating Platform 3 at Camden Road, a 50% more frequent service on the North London Line could operate to and from Stratford. When the Overground first started out, it was tipped that half the service would terminate at Camden Road, however as we now see, there are 10tph during the peaks from Willesden Junction to Stratford via Gospel Oak. Whilst the Camden Highline project would scupper a re increase in service, your suggestion about running trains using the curve of track that the old NSE services from Watford used into Broad Street and what London Overground use on diversion. Instead, I would send the extra 5tph through to the Willesden Junction low level platforms, but use the Watford DC line to reach them. The benefit of doing this is faster journey times between Camden Road and Willesden Junction, and this would take the strain off the North London Line via Gospel Oak. Stations on the Watford DC and existing NLL have similar catchment areas, Queens Park and Brondesbury Park, South Hampstead and Finchley Road & Frognal and Kensal Green and Kensal Rise. So you would be splitting the load between two lines in effect. There are logistic downsides to this though, very commonly freight is waiting on that stretch of track, so some track works would need to be made around there in order for freight trains to be able to wait, or even the section be four tracked, which would not go down well with Camden Market. Another suggestion I saw I believe it was by BE37054 (quoll662) was trains running from the Richmond direction onto the new line heading towards Neasden and Brent Cross. However, as I’ve mentioned previously, if the reopening of the Trumpers Way Line were to be co-incided with the opening of the WLO, with the extension to Brentford, then that could operate as a branch. Whilst Kew Bridge has potential to be a useful branch on the line, unfortunately an extension to Clapham Junction (which would be extremely useful) is impossible given the line is already maxed out in the number of paths available due to the numerous level crossings en-route. By having trains from Richmond towards Harlesden, Neasden and Brent Cross, this could be a force in helping to reduce congestion on the A205 and A406, and could also lead to an increase in capacity between Old Oak Common and Richmond. There would also be 12tph through each Bollo Lane level crossing, which might make pathing trains slightly easier to reduce the impact of the level crossing barriers basically permanently being down otherwise. If the line is to run with a full 8tph frequency, then you could have a service pattern akin to this: - West Hampstead Thameslink - Hounslow (4tph) - Hendon - Southall (2tph) - Hendon - Richmond (2tph) Hope that’s a somewhat insightful take I really like these ideas. I wonder, would it be worthwhile for the proposed Stratford to Willesden Junction trains to continue further along the Watford DC line? I like the Southall to Brentford Overground idea - would hopefully take some pressure off the 195. One final thing to mention, would the level crossing at Acton Central be able to cope with the WLO full stop? With 26tph or thereabouts the level crossing would be effectively permanently down, would this potentially cause accessibility issues for pedestrians / local residents? |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 19, 2023 19:48:45 GMT
I know this is about a month old but I do like some of the suggestions here, so I’ll detail plans I’d make. There have been suggestions made by a freight report that by reinstating Platform 3 at Camden Road, a 50% more frequent service on the North London Line could operate to and from Stratford. When the Overground first started out, it was tipped that half the service would terminate at Camden Road, however as we now see, there are 10tph during the peaks from Willesden Junction to Stratford via Gospel Oak. Whilst the Camden Highline project would scupper a re increase in service, your suggestion about running trains using the curve of track that the old NSE services from Watford used into Broad Street and what London Overground use on diversion. Instead, I would send the extra 5tph through to the Willesden Junction low level platforms, but use the Watford DC line to reach them. The benefit of doing this is faster journey times between Camden Road and Willesden Junction, and this would take the strain off the North London Line via Gospel Oak. Stations on the Watford DC and existing NLL have similar catchment areas, Queens Park and Brondesbury Park, South Hampstead and Finchley Road & Frognal and Kensal Green and Kensal Rise. So you would be splitting the load between two lines in effect. There are logistic downsides to this though, very commonly freight is waiting on that stretch of track, so some track works would need to be made around there in order for freight trains to be able to wait, or even the section be four tracked, which would not go down well with Camden Market. Another suggestion I saw I believe it was by BE37054 (quoll662) was trains running from the Richmond direction onto the new line heading towards Neasden and Brent Cross. However, as I’ve mentioned previously, if the reopening of the Trumpers Way Line were to be co-incided with the opening of the WLO, with the extension to Brentford, then that could operate as a branch. Whilst Kew Bridge has potential to be a useful branch on the line, unfortunately an extension to Clapham Junction (which would be extremely useful) is impossible given the line is already maxed out in the number of paths available due to the numerous level crossings en-route. By having trains from Richmond towards Harlesden, Neasden and Brent Cross, this could be a force in helping to reduce congestion on the A205 and A406, and could also lead to an increase in capacity between Old Oak Common and Richmond. There would also be 12tph through each Bollo Lane level crossing, which might make pathing trains slightly easier to reduce the impact of the level crossing barriers basically permanently being down otherwise. If the line is to run with a full 8tph frequency, then you could have a service pattern akin to this: - West Hampstead Thameslink - Hounslow (4tph) - Hendon - Southall (2tph) - Hendon - Richmond (2tph) Hope that’s a somewhat insightful take I really like these ideas. I wonder, would it be worthwhile for the proposed Stratford to Willesden Junction trains to continue further along the Watford DC line? I like the Southall to Brentford Overground idea - would hopefully take some pressure off the 195. One final thing to mention, would the level crossing at Acton Central be able to cope with the WLO full stop? With 26tph or thereabouts the level crossing would be effectively permanently down, would this potentially cause accessibility issues for pedestrians / local residents? I presume footbridges could be constructed on both Bollo Lane and East Churchfield Road but yes they would probably be down all the time excluding the middle of night. Unfortunately that would be a side effect of the proposals, and the construction cost of the line would probably double if grade separation was added at both Acton Central and South Acton. Very similar situation to Highams Park, and why if the Hall Farm curve is ever reinstated (however useful that would be) half the Liverpool Street trains would have to run to Stratford, meaning a half hourly service through Clapton. I don't think it would be worth continuing the London Overground further than Willesden Junction, there is a frequent Bakerloo Line and London Overground service further north.
Of course this then raises concerns about the 70 and 440 and their lines of route. The 440, infamous for its constant changes of routing and termini, would probably have to change its routing and termini again if Bollo Lane is basically going to turn into a Low Traffic Neighbourhood street (except instead of planters its Overground trains!) and could instead from Acton High Street, be diverted via Acton Town, Bollo Bridge Road (approaching it from the opposite direction) and then Acton Lane down to Chiswick High Road, where it would then run directly via Gunnersbury to Chiswick Business Park. The 110 could then take over the Wellesley Road section. As for the 70, you could trim it back to a stand near the Industrial Park, and providing a footbridge or an underpass is installed across the two level crossings with an exit for the Business Park, then access wouldn't be severed too much.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Oct 5, 2023 22:31:06 GMT
I wonder whether the short Kew Bridge stub of the route could ever be developed into an extension of the route to Clapham Junction through Barnes and Putney. I know the limiting factor of the extension is the existence of multiple level crossings dotted through Barnes and Chiswick, but given there seem to be alternative roads for drivers to avoid the level crossing with, could the barriers be permanently down and then have footbridges constructed over them?
The advantage of this is it would reduce overcrowding on the West London Line.
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