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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 31, 2023 22:59:33 GMT
Yes that very much is a fair point and Keir being on the fence is 100% not helping at all. Given it is a Labour policy introduced by Khan, it wouldn't be such a bad idea for him to at least try and make the idea look credible and back one of his party leaders. I will admit however that compared to how the CC was introduced in 2003, this is extremely shoddy at best and there has been no adequate public transport solution other than a Superloop which is barely any help to those not living by it.
As for your other reply, whilst I do believe an independent candidate would be a sensible idea, there needs to be some decent opposition compared to the last election. Like look at the last independent candidates - they featured the likes of Piers Corbyn, Brian Rose, David Kurten, Laurence Fox and Valerie Brown, and given the first three spread misinformation about the COVID pandemic and I'm sure we're aware of what Laurence Fox is like as an individual Then you had 3 candidates who entered the mayoral race satirically, and the rest of them I had heard next to nothing about. It was great to see the Green Party do well, but even the Lib Dems, an established political party, lost their 10k deposit in the mayoral race due to them getting less than 5% of the vote. It would be nice to have a viable independent candidate but given last election all 14 of them got 2% or less of the vote, you would need some strong willed and outspoken individual that would work in favour of the public that would truly be able to get their policies across to the masses. It's possible, and if there was one then I would vote for them myself, but I do think the mayoral race is, like with the general election, mostly Tories vs Labour, and given the awful choice in candidate for the Tories, I think Labour would be my preference providing there was no other independent candidate worth voting for. That is not true. It was a policy introduced by Boris Johnson in March 2015, probably as a ´vote winner´ for the 2016 election. Interestingly Boris intended for the current ULEZ zone to go live in September 2020, but Sadiq chose to bring it forward by a year to April 2019. Old habits eh? Whilst I am aware Boris proposed it, Khan ultimately chose to go ahead with it though so I would argue it is a decision that Keir Starmer should try and justify as to whether or not he disagrees with it. Khan could have very well retracted the idea going ahead, however he didn’t and he implemented it.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 31, 2023 23:01:15 GMT
Susan Hall is making waves for all the wrong reasons in a city where you need to be less Trumpist and more centre-right to win if you're a Tory.
London-wise her feed is 99% ULEZ related as of late, retweets some tweets from other Tories attacking Khan but nothing about an actual manifesto.
Speaking of them expecting to lose it, they didn't even have a photo of her in the photo they tweeted when they chose her as a candidate! Bit odd of a campaign strategy for someone who at the moment wouldn't be recognised by a lot of Londoners.
To be honest, with her, the question is more of if she'll lose some traditional outer London voters to the Lib Dems.
Maybe, maybe not. I think there will be protest votes on both sides. Will they even up, or swing one way? To me LibDems are like the Green's, they would just lead to oblivion, have you heard Caroline Pigeon ... the only real options are unfortunately Labour or Conservative. There has been a lot of Caroline Pigeon in the news over the years. I even remember Snoggle used to call her "attack pigeon"
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 31, 2023 23:03:37 GMT
One thing is set in stone in my mind. Whomsoever tries to do a pay per mile will NOT get my vote. If sadiq khan tries pay per mile that will be the end of him. Even staunch labour voters will be put off! I don't think it's that clear cut - as I said, Inner London voters are mostly unaffected by the ULEZ extension bar those who live in certain parts of Inner London beyond the South Circular and despite that, I don't think his vote will be affected much in the majority of Inner London due to the number of safe Labour areas - roughly 95% of Lambeth won't vote a Tory in and I'm sure it's a similar situation in Lewisham, Southwark, Islington, Camden etc. These areas are also more populous as well. Just to be clear in case anyone is wondering, I'm no Khan fan - I've never voted for him and I won't be doing so either this time once again and it's nothing to do with the ULEZ either as to why I won't be voting for him, just I'm looking at it from a logical viewpoint without emotion that he could still conceivably get back in when you couple the power he has in Inner London along with an unknown Tory candidate in Susan Hall who needs to get off to a flyer and can't just simply rely on an anti ULEZ ticket to win the race. But khan is starting to get hated by a lot of people in inner London as well. It is a matter of been there done that, got the t-shirt
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 1, 2023 7:05:50 GMT
I don't think it's that clear cut - as I said, Inner London voters are mostly unaffected by the ULEZ extension bar those who live in certain parts of Inner London beyond the South Circular and despite that, I don't think his vote will be affected much in the majority of Inner London due to the number of safe Labour areas - roughly 95% of Lambeth won't vote a Tory in and I'm sure it's a similar situation in Lewisham, Southwark, Islington, Camden etc. These areas are also more populous as well. Just to be clear in case anyone is wondering, I'm no Khan fan - I've never voted for him and I won't be doing so either this time once again and it's nothing to do with the ULEZ either as to why I won't be voting for him, just I'm looking at it from a logical viewpoint without emotion that he could still conceivably get back in when you couple the power he has in Inner London along with an unknown Tory candidate in Susan Hall who needs to get off to a flyer and can't just simply rely on an anti ULEZ ticket to win the race. But khan is starting to get hated by a lot of people in inner London as well. It is a matter of been there done that, got the t-shirt So who else are they going to vote for? The party that's completely wrecked the country and stands against the morals of most people within the city?
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Post by SILENCED on Aug 1, 2023 7:09:18 GMT
But khan is starting to get hated by a lot of people in inner London as well. It is a matter of been there done that, got the t-shirt So who else are they going to vote for? The party that's completely wrecked the country and stands against the morals of most people within the city? Not saying your wrong, but you will happily vote for the party again that has wrecked London?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 1, 2023 7:25:05 GMT
So who else are they going to vote for? The party that's completely wrecked the country and stands against the morals of most people within the city? Not saying your wrong, but you will happily vote for the party again that has wrecked London? How have they wrecked London? There's some questionable decisions regarding motor laws in there but most of London's economical woes are as a result of central government.
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Post by greenboy on Aug 1, 2023 7:46:02 GMT
Not saying your wrong, but you will happily vote for the party again that has wrecked London? How have they wrecked London? There's some questionable decisions regarding motor laws in there but most of London's economical woes are as a result of central government. It is unfair to say that Khan has wrecked London just as it's unfair for you to say that the government have wrecked the country, there are pros and cons to everything. Pretty much all the animosity towards Khan seems to be as a result of ULEZ unless I'm missing something?
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Post by SILENCED on Aug 1, 2023 7:52:47 GMT
Not saying your wrong, but you will happily vote for the party again that has wrecked London? How have they wrecked London? There's some questionable decisions regarding motor laws in there but most of London's economical woes are as a result of central government. A lot is devolved to the Mayor. It is not central governments responsibility for those devolved areas. Any failure in these areas is firmly on the Mayor's shoulders, not matter how much he whines, and seemingly convincingly whines as you you have bought his sob stories to cover up his failures. Don't buy these politicians that can't do anything. But iit is always someone else's fault, never theirs? It is their job to do something, not makes excuses why they can't. If you can't take the responsibilities of the role, don't take it! Quick question if London was a 100 when Sadiq came to power 2016, how would would you rate it in 2023?
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Post by southlondon413 on Aug 1, 2023 8:52:52 GMT
How have they wrecked London? There's some questionable decisions regarding motor laws in there but most of London's economical woes are as a result of central government. A lot is devolved to the Mayor. It is not central governments responsibility for those devolved areas. Any failure in these areas is firmly on the Mayor's shoulders, not matter how much he whines, and seemingly convincingly whines as you you have bought his sob stories to cover up his failures. Don't buy these politicians that can't do anything. But iit is always someone else's fault, never theirs? It is their job to do something, not makes excuses why they can't. If you can't take the responsibilities of the role, don't take it! Quick question if London was a 100 when Sadiq came to power 2016, how would would you rate it in 2023? Absolute zero which we all know is equivalent to -273.15 C. I joke, it’s probably now a 45. Crime is up, housing is too limited, public transport is as its lowest level for years, traffic is higher, taxes to city hall are at an all time high and the list goes on.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 1, 2023 9:32:40 GMT
How have they wrecked London? There's some questionable decisions regarding motor laws in there but most of London's economical woes are as a result of central government. A lot is devolved to the Mayor. It is not central governments responsibility for those devolved areas. Any failure in these areas is firmly on the Mayor's shoulders, not matter how much he whines, and seemingly convincingly whines as you you have bought his sob stories to cover up his failures. Don't buy these politicians that can't do anything. But iit is always someone else's fault, never theirs? It is their job to do something, not makes excuses why they can't. If you can't take the responsibilities of the role, don't take it! Quick question if London was a 100 when Sadiq came to power 2016, how would would you rate it in 2023? Would probably put it at an 80 or 90. Considering all the financial woes caused by Central government he has actually managed fine apart from being anti-motorist.
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Post by SILENCED on Aug 1, 2023 9:38:04 GMT
A lot is devolved to the Mayor. It is not central governments responsibility for those devolved areas. Any failure in these areas is firmly on the Mayor's shoulders, not matter how much he whines, and seemingly convincingly whines as you you have bought his sob stories to cover up his failures. Don't buy these politicians that can't do anything. But iit is always someone else's fault, never theirs? It is their job to do something, not makes excuses why they can't. If you can't take the responsibilities of the role, don't take it! Quick question if London was a 100 when Sadiq came to power 2016, how would would you rate it in 2023? Would probably put it at an 80 or 90. Considering all the financial woes caused by Central government he has actually managed fine apart from being anti-motorist. And there has been no financial mismanagement at the regional level? I think you believe too much of what comes out the mouth of the Mayor ... as with most politicians 99% lies ... Despicable breed!
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Post by vjaska on Aug 1, 2023 10:20:00 GMT
Would probably put it at an 80 or 90. Considering all the financial woes caused by Central government he has actually managed fine apart from being anti-motorist. And there has been no financial mismanagement at the regional level? I think you believe too much of what comes out the mouth of the Mayor ... as with most politicians 99% lies ... Despicable breed! I’m not sure what I rate it as an overall score in all honesty but certain things are worse but then I’ve never voted for Khan or a Labour mayor (Livingstone would of got my vote in his earlier terms if I was old enough then) so I’m probably not the best person to rate it. Financially, I will say both mayor and government are equally terrible with the finances hence the state of the country though with the mayor, he is only partially responsible IMO but it doesn’t make it much better either
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Post by matthieu1221 on Aug 1, 2023 13:22:16 GMT
But chances are anyone voting for another party like the Greens or LibDems is likely to have voted Labour anyway otherwise. The fact is this race is between the Tories and Labour and London is a Labour city end of the day and the Tories have a very steep mountain to climb. Lib Dems tends to be more centre ground. Most of their voters either go and back from from either Labour or Conservative. Lib Dems should really be the party to rule the country as the majority of people in the country is centrist. Which is probably why they don't rule the country. Unlike the left or the right they don't really have much of a sufficiently large solid base. Discounting tactical voting in individual races, it would take an electorate too disgruntled by both the left and the right to get them in power. 2017 France is a good example but that has (understandably) gone awry as rather than being in the centre means you 'please' both sides, you more often than not end up upsetting both sides.
The best chance of an independent winning London was arguably under a ranked choice voting system (or the previous supplementary vote system) -- and absolutely not FPTP.
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Post by northlondon83 on Aug 1, 2023 14:25:29 GMT
A lot is devolved to the Mayor. It is not central governments responsibility for those devolved areas. Any failure in these areas is firmly on the Mayor's shoulders, not matter how much he whines, and seemingly convincingly whines as you you have bought his sob stories to cover up his failures. Don't buy these politicians that can't do anything. But iit is always someone else's fault, never theirs? It is their job to do something, not makes excuses why they can't. If you can't take the responsibilities of the role, don't take it! Quick question if London was a 100 when Sadiq came to power 2016, how would would you rate it in 2023? Absolute zero which we all know is equivalent to -273.15 C. I joke, it’s probably now a 45. Crime is up, housing is too limited, public transport is as its lowest level for years, traffic is higher, taxes to city hall are at an all time high and the list goes on. Public transport is at its lowest level for years... Blame Covid for that
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Post by vjaska on Aug 1, 2023 17:29:19 GMT
Absolute zero which we all know is equivalent to -273.15 C. I joke, it’s probably now a 45. Crime is up, housing is too limited, public transport is as its lowest level for years, traffic is higher, taxes to city hall are at an all time high and the list goes on. Public transport is at its lowest level for years... Blame Covid for that I blame the lack of investment since the subsidy was withdrawn under two mayors of different parties rather than Covid
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