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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 17, 2023 21:46:10 GMT
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 17, 2023 22:40:19 GMT
I’m really confused about this proposal, for starters whereabouts is it meant to serve between Upminster and Beam Park? The Romford-Upminster line at the moment, is pretty much stuck due to the District Line track alignments, and basically cannot cross onto the c2c lines, let alone have an entirely new tram route use it. I have no idea how the tram can leave the Romford to Upminster line, leaving it before the District Line converges with the Overground would mean some pretty fierce grade separation which would require large scale residential demolition and presumably lots of noise complaints from residents to access St Mary’s Lane. Same situation with the Romford end, this would completely sever the Romford link by having a branch off towards Harold Wood, and would require large scale demolition on Heath Park Road to allow the tram to curve. So what are the possibilities going forward then for this line? In my opinion, given there seems to be a lot of money requested for this scheme, I wonder how much it would be worth it to at least try and attempt to connect the line with the c2c line down to Grays. That would at least create a direct link from Romford and Hornchurch to Lakeside and Grays, and would allow for interchange with c2c for journeys to Rainham and Beam Park. However, this would require some grade separation to access the c2c lines, and would have to come within the form of an overpass, a portal like at Royal Oak on the sub surface lines would be probably quite impossible without demolishing houses surrounding the railway in order to store construction vehicles to dig muck out the ground etc. I think this would be the most worth it proposal, but you’d also need to 2 track the entire Upminster to Grays line, which does look doable however you’d need to shift tracks slightly within the S Ockendon area to fit another pair in and most likely have to rebuild one of Ockendon’s platforms. The other option I have seen, mostly floating around on railforums, is the idea for the line to be extended to Cranham as that would follow the District line alignments into the depot. Whilst this seems like the most financially viable extension, this would require a portion of the depot to be eaten up as part of a station in Cranham on Front Lane, and the station itself wouldn’t be in what, at least on paper could be considered the centre of Cranham. There is also the issue of frequency. The 370 has a lower frequency than the 248, about every 15 minutes so its perhaps understandable why someone, say who currently uses the 370 might be justified in switching over the Overground to reach Lakeside or Ockendon from Hornchurch or Romford. But the 248, not only having a higher frequency at every 8 minutes, but also given the expansive residential area of Cranham/Upminster Park, it covers a whole lot more, so would be seen as far more attractive to patrons than waiting for an Overground train that’s every half an hour that for some people living in the vicinity, would require walking to. Not to mention that the 248 links up to all 3 stations on the line. Hopefully that’s informative  |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 18, 2023 2:14:59 GMT
Havering council seems to forget that a certain 174 already does this, albeit only to a certain extent but it does serve the Beam Park area, but even that aside, plenty of bus routes already connect Harold Wood to Romford and the 103 already connects Romford & Rainham so it's hardly only provided mainly by east to west journeys in terms of public transport |
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Post by joefrombow on Aug 18, 2023 11:28:47 GMT
Realistically this is Pie in the Sky however "East London Transit" which in my opinion should be "Barking Riverside Transit" could be extended and improved i.e 174 but rebranded with better priority improved bus shelters and Bus only roads in some places and so a EL5 and EL6 maybe (248 & 174 extended and improved )
As for the mayor totally not getting car usage in these areas the councillor is bang on he doesn't have a clue all the self employed couriers , builders and delivery companies and everyone else who is going to have to get a new vehicle when prices are at a all time high when £2K barely touched the sides for a decent vehicle and the Superloop in East London doesn't even touch Havering were people coming in will be affected or people living in Thurrock and Brentwood who have to commute in just another tax on the less well off .
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Post by enviroPB on Aug 18, 2023 13:37:54 GMT
What this says to me is that Havering are still frustrated by National Rail and/or the government for not approving Beam Park station to be built. The housing project cannot hit its occupancy capacity without some sort of railway system, so gotta commend the council for thinking outside of the box. It will take ages, probably more than a decade from conception to first trams; I doubt we will get a Manchester situation where tram extensions were actually built earlier than planned! But yes, if KenEx does become a thing then cannot blame Havering for wanting better public transport connectivity which will no doubt benefit residents. Lakeside from Rainham being a more attractive destination for one, maybe heading south to Bluewater via tram as well. vjaska I am sure the proposed terminus of Harold Hill is to house any potential tramshed for the proposed trams. Rainham for the most part is essentially a built up industrial estate, and I am sure the council would get negative shtick for any displacement of businesses seeing as some traders were turfed off the industrial estates around Stratford & Hackney to build the Olympic Park. |
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 18, 2023 13:53:38 GMT
Given the flexibility of light rail over conventional, I think there would be good mileage in a proposal to link up the Romford-Upminster-Grays rail route into a wider light rail system for the area, connecting into the proposed KenEx route. One for Harvering and Thurrock to work on collaboratively, perhaps? The line could serve Upminster station with high-level interchange platforms.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 19, 2023 11:20:27 GMT
Havering council seems to forget that a certain 174 already does this, albeit only to a certain extent but it does serve the Beam Park area, but even that aside, plenty of bus routes already connect Harold Wood to Romford and the 103 already connects Romford & Rainham so it's hardly only provided mainly by east to west journeys in terms of public transport Yes clearly. But it seems to be no different to what was proposed for the 207 some years ago in West London for a tram. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 19, 2023 11:28:35 GMT
What this says to me is that Havering are still frustrated by National Rail and/or the government for not approving Beam Park station to be built. The housing project cannot hit its occupancy capacity without some sort of railway system, so gotta commend the council for thinking outside of the box. It will take ages, probably more than a decade from conception to first trams; I doubt we will get a Manchester situation where tram extensions were actually built earlier than planned! But yes, if KenEx does become a thing then cannot blame Havering for wanting better public transport connectivity which will no doubt benefit residents. Lakeside from Rainham being a more attractive destination for one, maybe heading south to Bluewater via tram as well. vjaska I am sure the proposed terminus of Harold Hill is to house any potential tramshed for the proposed trams. Rainham for the most part is essentially a built up industrial estate, and I am sure the council would get negative shtick for any displacement of businesses seeing as some traders were turfed off the industrial estates around Stratford & Hackney to build the Olympic Park. The Beam Park station is a joke and stupid imo. Dagenham Dock is not far down the road. All this Beam Park nonsense (which is Dagenham Ford's) is another gentrification attempt and to sell more over-priced high rise appartments that are NOT really affordable as they claim. I am no fan of this Orchard Village nonsense either. |
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Post by Buses678 on Aug 23, 2023 9:31:51 GMT
Realistically this is Pie in the Sky however "East London Transit" which in my opinion should be "Barking Riverside Transit" could be extended and improved i.e 174 but rebranded with better priority improved bus shelters and Bus only roads in some places and so a EL5 and EL6 maybe (248 & 174 extended and improved ) As for the mayor totally not getting car usage in these areas the councillor is bang on he doesn't have a clue all the self employed couriers , builders and delivery companies and everyone else who is going to have to get a new vehicle when prices are at a all time high when £2K barely touched the sides for a decent vehicle and the Superloop in East London doesn't even touch Havering were people coming in will be affected or people living in Thurrock and Brentwood who have to commute in just another tax on the less well off . I was also predicting that aswell since the East london transit made a map back then. I can give the link towards the site but it bit outdated. |
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Post by Buses678 on Aug 23, 2023 9:39:56 GMT
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Post by joefrombow on Aug 23, 2023 9:57:55 GMT
North Greenwich to Harold Hill just imagine 😂 , shame these didn't come to fruition in some form , EL1 is basically the 369 still with a little extension and I think just two bus priority measures in the Town Centre and at Riverside , they could do so much more with all the routes , the EL3 should be extended in my opinion to Hainault or at least Marks Gate , "Little Heath" is in the middle of nowhere , but yes would be good if they worked on this or similar which would be better instead of dreaming up tram lines which will cost billions , would make much more sense to have a limited stop "transit" from Brentwood to Dagenham Dock (North side) via HH , Romford & Dagenham , and same thing with Beam Park Station don't see any point when Dagenham Dock and Rainham are literally down the road . |
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Post by Buses678 on Aug 23, 2023 10:14:50 GMT
North Greenwich to Harold Hill just imagine 😂 , shame these didn't come to fruition in some form , EL1 is basically the 369 still with a little extension and I think just two bus priority measures in the Town Centre and at Riverside , they could do so much more with all the routes , the EL3 should be extended in my opinion to Hainault or at least Marks Gate , "Little Heath" is in the middle of nowhere , but yes would be good if they worked on this or similar which would be better instead of dreaming up tram lines which will cost billions , would make much more sense to have a limited stop "transit" from Brentwood to Dagenham Dock (North side) via HH , Romford & Dagenham , and same thing with Beam Park Station don't see any point when Dagenham Dock and Rainham are literally down the road . yeah, so much possibilities. heres my route predictions: Route 991 will be based off of EL1, route 992 will be based off of EL2 (i did heard from the silvertown tunnel bus proposals , tfl could consider extending the 129 over from Gallions Reach to Barking Station to connect with the ELT routes), 993 will be partially based off of 252 and 994 will be based off of 472. |
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Post by joefrombow on Aug 23, 2023 12:44:30 GMT
North Greenwich to Harold Hill just imagine 😂 , shame these didn't come to fruition in some form , EL1 is basically the 369 still with a little extension and I think just two bus priority measures in the Town Centre and at Riverside , they could do so much more with all the routes , the EL3 should be extended in my opinion to Hainault or at least Marks Gate , "Little Heath" is in the middle of nowhere , but yes would be good if they worked on this or similar which would be better instead of dreaming up tram lines which will cost billions , would make much more sense to have a limited stop "transit" from Brentwood to Dagenham Dock (North side) via HH , Romford & Dagenham , and same thing with Beam Park Station don't see any point when Dagenham Dock and Rainham are literally down the road . yeah, so much possibilities. heres my route predictions: Route 991 will be based off of EL1, route 992 will be based off of EL2 (i did heard from the silvertown tunnel bus proposals , tfl could consider extending the 129 over from Gallions Reach to Barking Station to connect with the ELT routes), 993 will be partially based off of 252 and 994 will be based off of 472. Don't think in the current climate any of these will come to fruition , I think the plan is very very old pre 2005 , as the Thames bridge at Beckton was planned then ( Should of went ahead in my view instead of the Silvertown tunnel ) and people keep disagreeing but I think a express transit bus route going from outer London in along the major roads would make much more sense and use alongside the Superloop so a route or routes from Harold Hill to Royal Docks express via the 174 , 5 and new routing to the Royal Docks (Custom House) for example and then when the Tunnel is open maybe to North Greenwich , as is voiced by the majority upset at no Superloop in Romford for example if your going to appease ULEZ at least have some viable alternatives up and running . |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 23, 2023 14:01:13 GMT
I would like to see the Finsbury Park to Ally Pally Northern Heights line re-introduced as a very light rail route (avoiding the old Highgate Station though and instead taking Muswell Hill Road) potentially with an extension further onto Wood Green. What are the chances of this happening? Next to nothing no doubt  Would be even cooler if a branch to Friern Barnet/New Southgate were constructed. |
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Post by greenboy on Aug 23, 2023 14:40:20 GMT
I would like to see the Finsbury Park to Ally Pally Northern Heights line re-introduced as a very light rail route (avoiding the old Highgate Station though and instead taking Muswell Hill Road) potentially with an extension further onto Wood Green. What are the chances of this happening? Next to nothing no doubt Would be even cooler if a branch to Friern Barnet/New Southgate were constructed. This is what you would be up against... www.times-series.co.uk/news/23705573.bid-restart-alexandra-palace-finsbury-park-rail-line-criticised/ |
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