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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 2, 2023 12:15:16 GMT
Well this is about as local as it gets for me. 91/N91 - yes please, the 91 has always seemed the obvious route to extend to Heartlands, and has been the aspiration ever since the earliest stage of the project (even before someone came up with that tacky name). Having said that I'm surprised it's actually happening in the current financial climate. Yes it is a fairly big development (and has probably provided some Section 106 cash) but it isn't huge, yet it is getting a high-frequency link to central London including a night route. I was expecting something underwhelming like a diversion of one of the lesser routes in the area, like the 232, but no more than that. 232 - busier than it used to be, but still one of the less busy routes on the High Road, so probably the least worst route to remove. The proposed stops on Mayes Road are not too far from the rear entrance to the Mall so could be useful. 123 - the biggest gripe here is the loss of the round-the-corner link between Westbury Avenue and the High Road. Reading some of the comments on here I think people are too fixated on long-distance links and forget that a large proportion of bus trips are short hops, and that these local links are a vital part of the network. Westbury Avenue is a densely-populated area that always generates a lot of custom for buses. That said, the area has changed a lot lately, with a generally younger population, so maybe this particular link is not as well-used as it once was.
I can't agree with suggestions to divert the 123 via Wood Green to TPL. This would deprive Westbury Avenue of its only link to Tottenham, as well as greatly increasing journey times for people who use the 123 to/from TPL (and there are a lot of those!). Plus it would only be duplicating sections that are already well-served by the 243 and 144.
The other concern would be whether TPL can actually handle the 123 terminating there. The bus station is already too tight for the number of terminating routes, and the 123 is (slightly) more frequent than the 232 which is moving out. I won't be surprised if something gets formally moved out to the West Green Road stand at some point.
91 - good news, terminating at Crouch End made no sense, stopping short of obvious traffic destinations. N91 - not sure about diversion via Heartlands given that the loss of service via Turnpike Lane results in lots of broken connections, especially as this is meant to be the nightbus equivalent of the Piccadilly line. 232 - is this really the best route to serve Heartlands? Apart from short trips to Wood Green Station wouldn’t the new residents prefer a direct route into the High Road rather than something that heads northwards? Perhaps something from the south that currently terminates at Wood Green would be better? In the respect the 123 might have been better which would have freed up the stand at Wood Green for the 91 without involving the 232.
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Post by redexpress on Dec 2, 2023 14:26:48 GMT
Well this is about as local as it gets for me.
91/N91 - yes please, the 91 has always seemed the obvious route to extend to Heartlands, and has been the aspiration ever since the earliest stage of the project (even before someone came up with that tacky name). Having said that I'm surprised it's actually happening in the current financial climate. Yes it is a fairly big development (and has probably provided some Section 106 cash) but it isn't huge, yet it is getting a high-frequency link to central London including a night route. I was expecting something underwhelming like a diversion of one of the lesser routes in the area, like the 232, but no more than that.
232 - busier than it used to be, but still one of the less busy routes on the High Road, so probably the least worst route to remove. The proposed stops on Mayes Road are not too far from the rear entrance to the Mall so could be useful.
123 - the biggest gripe here is the loss of the round-the-corner link between Westbury Avenue and the High Road. Reading some of the comments on here I think people are too fixated on long-distance links and forget that a large proportion of bus trips are short hops, and that these local links are a vital part of the network. Westbury Avenue is a densely-populated area that always generates a lot of custom for buses. That said, the area has changed a lot lately, with a generally younger population, so maybe this particular link is not as well-used as it once was.
I can't agree with suggestions to divert the 123 via Wood Green to TPL. This would deprive Westbury Avenue of its only link to Tottenham, as well as greatly increasing journey times for people who use the 123 to/from TPL (and there are a lot of those!). Plus it would only be duplicating sections that are already well-served by the 243 and 144.
The other concern would be whether TPL can actually handle the 123 terminating there. The bus station is already too tight for the number of terminating routes, and the 123 is (slightly) more frequent than the 232 which is moving out. I won't be surprised if something gets formally moved out to the West Green Road stand at some point.
91 - good news, terminating at Crouch End made no sense, stopping short of obvious traffic destinations. N91 - not sure about diversion via Heartlands given that the loss of service via Turnpike Lane results in lots of broken connections, especially as this is meant to be the nightbus equivalent of the Piccadilly line. 232 - is this really the best route to serve Heartlands? Apart from short trips to Wood Green Station wouldn’t the new residents prefer a direct route into the High Road rather than something that heads northwards? Perhaps something from the south that currently terminates at Wood Green would be better? I agree the 232 is not going to be of much use for Heartlands. The 91 will already provide the link to Wood Green station anyway. Clearly TfL have decided that they need to remove something from the High Road, and removing the 232 causes the least disruption.
I'm not sure that a link between Heartlands and the High Road would be that popular. Given the usual traffic round here it will be much quicker to walk to the High Road (except at night, when no-one wants the High Road anyway). The most obvious missing link for Heartlands is to Turnpike Lane station. Unfortunately running via the High Road would be very slow, while running via Turnpike Lane itself would require remodelling of the Wightman Road junction (which is not as simple as it looks).
Having said that, extending something like the 67 or 230 to Heartlands would free up the required stand space at Wood Green without needing to mess with the 123 and 232. Though it wouldn't achieve TfL's aim of reducing the number of buses on the High Road.
Agree on the N91, even if it isn't really a night equivalent to the Picc if it doesn't serve Manor House or Finsbury Park! The N29 will maintain the most important ilnks from Central London but does miss out King's Cross. which could be an issue.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 2, 2023 18:56:37 GMT
91 - good news, terminating at Crouch End made no sense, stopping short of obvious traffic destinations. N91 - not sure about diversion via Heartlands given that the loss of service via Turnpike Lane results in lots of broken connections, especially as this is meant to be the nightbus equivalent of the Piccadilly line. 232 - is this really the best route to serve Heartlands? Apart from short trips to Wood Green Station wouldn’t the new residents prefer a direct route into the High Road rather than something that heads northwards? Perhaps something from the south that currently terminates at Wood Green would be better? In the respect the 123 might have been better which would have freed up the stand at Wood Green for the 91 without involving the 232. Or the 67 as it is a bit of a 'wasteman' route now it has been cut back from Aldgate
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Post by sdaniel on Jan 7, 2024 12:01:17 GMT
91 and N91 extension is really good. 123 I'm against because the link between Westbury Avenue and Wood Green High Road will be lost. 232, I feel like it should still terminate at Turnpike Lane Station but going through the Heartlands area instead of Wood Green High Road.
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Post by T.R. on Jan 8, 2024 9:54:01 GMT
232, I feel like it should still terminate at Turnpike Lane Station but going through the Heartlands area instead of Wood Green High Road. Agree with that, but a no right turn from Turnpike Lane onto Hornsey Park Road might make that unviable in the northbound direction . 🤷🏾♂️
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Post by sdaniel on Jan 8, 2024 10:49:33 GMT
232, I feel like it should still terminate at Turnpike Lane Station but going through the Heartlands area instead of Wood Green High Road. Agree with that, but a no right turn from Turnpike Lane onto Hornsey Park Road might make that unviable in the northbound direction . 🤷🏾♂️ Oh yeah that’s true. The Harringay council will need to do something about it because people from Heartlands will need a bus to get to Turnpike Lane Underground Station and Bus Station for interchanges for other buses such as 217, 231 etc.
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Post by VMH2537 on Mar 14, 2024 10:24:28 GMT
Today we have published our report following the consultation on our proposed changes to bus routes 91, N91, 123 and 232 in the London Borough of Haringey. Between 30 October and 10 December 2023, we held a public consultation proposing changes to bus routes 91, N91, 123 and 232 that serve Turnpike Lane, Wood Green High Road and the new Haringey Heartlands development, in the London Borough of Haringey. Route 91: Extend route 91 to Wood Green Station via Haringey Heartlands from its current terminus on Tottenham Lane in Crouch End Route N91: Re-route the N91 to serve Haringey Heartlands instead of running on Wood Green High Road, running through to Wood Green station and then onto Cockfosters station as is the case at the moment Route 123: Withdraw the section of route 123 that serves Wood Green High Road (from Turnpike Lane to Wood Green) Route 232: Withdraw the section of route 232 from that serves Wood Green High Road (from Wood Green to Turnpike Lane) and extend the service from Wood Green Station to a new terminus in Haringey Heartlands We received 488 responses to the consultation and thank you to everyone who took part. Our responses to the issues raised during the consultation is included in Appendix A of the report. Following careful consideration of the feedback we received from members of the public and stakeholders, we have decided to proceed with the proposed changes as set out in the consultation. For further details and to view our consultation report, please visit: haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/haringey-heartlands
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Post by r4h106 on Mar 14, 2024 10:35:05 GMT
Today we have published our report following the consultation on our proposed changes to bus routes 91, N91, 123 and 232 in the London Borough of Haringey. Between 30 October and 10 December 2023, we held a public consultation proposing changes to bus routes 91, N91, 123 and 232 that serve Turnpike Lane, Wood Green High Road and the new Haringey Heartlands development, in the London Borough of Haringey. Route 91: Extend route 91 to Wood Green Station via Haringey Heartlands from its current terminus on Tottenham Lane in Crouch End Route N91: Re-route the N91 to serve Haringey Heartlands instead of running on Wood Green High Road, running through to Wood Green station and then onto Cockfosters station as is the case at the moment Route 123: Withdraw the section of route 123 that serves Wood Green High Road (from Turnpike Lane to Wood Green) Route 232: Withdraw the section of route 232 from that serves Wood Green High Road (from Wood Green to Turnpike Lane) and extend the service from Wood Green Station to a new terminus in Haringey Heartlands We received 488 responses to the consultation and thank you to everyone who took part. Our responses to the issues raised during the consultation is included in Appendix A of the report. Following careful consideration of the feedback we received from members of the public and stakeholders, we have decided to proceed with the proposed changes as set out in the consultation. For further details and to view our consultation report, please visit: haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/haringey-heartlands Amazing news
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Post by WH241 on Mar 14, 2024 10:43:40 GMT
Today we have published our report following the consultation on our proposed changes to bus routes 91, N91, 123 and 232 in the London Borough of Haringey. Between 30 October and 10 December 2023, we held a public consultation proposing changes to bus routes 91, N91, 123 and 232 that serve Turnpike Lane, Wood Green High Road and the new Haringey Heartlands development, in the London Borough of Haringey. Route 91: Extend route 91 to Wood Green Station via Haringey Heartlands from its current terminus on Tottenham Lane in Crouch End Route N91: Re-route the N91 to serve Haringey Heartlands instead of running on Wood Green High Road, running through to Wood Green station and then onto Cockfosters station as is the case at the moment Route 123: Withdraw the section of route 123 that serves Wood Green High Road (from Turnpike Lane to Wood Green) Route 232: Withdraw the section of route 232 from that serves Wood Green High Road (from Wood Green to Turnpike Lane) and extend the service from Wood Green Station to a new terminus in Haringey Heartlands We received 488 responses to the consultation and thank you to everyone who took part. Our responses to the issues raised during the consultation is included in Appendix A of the report. Following careful consideration of the feedback we received from members of the public and stakeholders, we have decided to proceed with the proposed changes as set out in the consultation. For further details and to view our consultation report, please visit: haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/haringey-heartlands Amazing news Is it? There seems to be an awful lot of tinkering of routes in the last few years! The bus network was pretty stable for many years but now changes seem to be made for changes sake. One think I have noticed is the low number of response on consultations especially on busy corridors like the 123. Makes me think TfL needs to make more of an effort to reach passengers during the consultation stage.
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Post by sdaniel on Mar 14, 2024 10:57:18 GMT
Today we have published our report following the consultation on our proposed changes to bus routes 91, N91, 123 and 232 in the London Borough of Haringey. Between 30 October and 10 December 2023, we held a public consultation proposing changes to bus routes 91, N91, 123 and 232 that serve Turnpike Lane, Wood Green High Road and the new Haringey Heartlands development, in the London Borough of Haringey. Route 91: Extend route 91 to Wood Green Station via Haringey Heartlands from its current terminus on Tottenham Lane in Crouch End Route N91: Re-route the N91 to serve Haringey Heartlands instead of running on Wood Green High Road, running through to Wood Green station and then onto Cockfosters station as is the case at the moment Route 123: Withdraw the section of route 123 that serves Wood Green High Road (from Turnpike Lane to Wood Green) Route 232: Withdraw the section of route 232 from that serves Wood Green High Road (from Wood Green to Turnpike Lane) and extend the service from Wood Green Station to a new terminus in Haringey Heartlands We received 488 responses to the consultation and thank you to everyone who took part. Our responses to the issues raised during the consultation is included in Appendix A of the report. Following careful consideration of the feedback we received from members of the public and stakeholders, we have decided to proceed with the proposed changes as set out in the consultation. For further details and to view our consultation report, please visit: haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/haringey-heartlands TFL’s outcome for routes 91 and N91 was perfect for extending it to Wood Green. But I’m disappointed with their outcome for 123. They are about to break the direct link between Westbury Avenue and Wood Green High Road by curtailing route 123, why didn’t they just merge a few routes such as 67 & 329 or even 41 & 230 as some people suggested? The 232 outcome is alright but how would they say exchange for the 41 or 144 instead of running to Turnpike Lane through the Haringey Heartlands development? (I understand there’s no right turn between Turnpike Lane and Mary Neuver Road, but the council could have done something about it)
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Post by r4h106 on Mar 14, 2024 11:05:34 GMT
Is it? There seems to be an awful lot of tinkering of routes in the last few years! The bus network was pretty stable for many years but now changes seem to be made for changes sake. One think I have noticed is the low number of response on consultations especially on busy corridors like the 123. Makes me think TfL needs to make more of an effort to reach passengers during the consultation stage. Well for me personally 91 is a good extension since it’s one of my locals and I use 91 to Hornsey now I don’t have to change
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Post by r4h106 on Mar 14, 2024 11:06:46 GMT
Is it? There seems to be an awful lot of tinkering of routes in the last few years! The bus network was pretty stable for many years but now changes seem to be made for changes sake. One think I have noticed is the low number of response on consultations especially on busy corridors like the 123. Makes me think TfL needs to make more of an effort to reach passengers during the consultation stage. Well for me personally 91 is a good extension since it’s one of my locals and I use 91 to Hornsey now I don’t have to change Not really too sure about the 123 tbh I don’t really think it should be cut to tpl
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Post by sdaniel on Mar 14, 2024 11:12:44 GMT
Well for me personally 91 is a good extension since it’s one of my locals and I use 91 to Hornsey now I don’t have to change Not really too sure about the 123 tbh I don’t really think it should be cut to tpl Exactly, 29% of people were dissatisfied of 123 being curtailed to TPL, but only 13% of people were okay with it, so how are they going ahead with that change?
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Post by greenboy on Mar 14, 2024 11:15:28 GMT
Not really too sure about the 123 tbh I don’t really think it should be cut to tpl Exactly, 29% of people were dissatisfied of 123 being curtailed to TPL, but only 13% of people were okay with it, so how are they going ahead with that change? It's a consultation not a referendum, I'm actually surprised that 13% were ok about it.
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Post by rj131 on Mar 14, 2024 12:43:26 GMT
Not really too sure about the 123 tbh I don’t really think it should be cut to tpl Exactly, 29% of people were dissatisfied of 123 being curtailed to TPL, but only 13% of people were okay with it, so how are they going ahead with that change? 73% opposed the 73 (rather aptly) being cut to Oxford Circus to Victoria, they still did it though
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