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Post by Pilot on Jul 30, 2019 17:04:43 GMT
That apparently isn’t the case as we saw with the 120 and 222. LU had compliant buses that they ordered at the beginning of the contracts in 2012, yet TfL awarded them both to Metroline with brand new buses. Obviously Metroline was the cheaper option, so having existing buses doesn’t always mean you can submit a cheaper bid. Im sure there are various other examples around London. Yep. The 208 despite having compliant vehicles with E400s got awarded to Go Ahead with brand new buses. Lol, maybe just preparing for Lewisham being in ulez or something soon.
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Post by COBO on Jul 30, 2019 20:50:20 GMT
Is Euro 5 & 6 toxic? I ask because I have someone on my Wikia keeps complaining about how the 99 is bad under Arriva London because of the toxic fumes from the DWs on the 99 and he or she says that the 99 was better under Stagecoach London because of the Enviro 400Hs.
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Post by george on Jul 30, 2019 21:02:33 GMT
Is Euro 5 & 6 toxic? I ask because I have someone on my Wikia keeps complaining about how the 99 is bad under Arriva London because of the toxic fumes from the DWs on the 99 and he or she says that the 99 was better under Stagecoach London because of the Enviro 400Hs. He or she is right the Enviro 400Hs are much better for the environment and also your own personal health. Is the service better under stagecoach? for that I couldn't comment as never used the route.
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Post by redexpress on Jul 30, 2019 21:13:44 GMT
Is Euro 5 & 6 toxic? I ask because I have someone on my Wikia keeps complaining about how the 99 is bad under Arriva London because of the toxic fumes from the DWs on the 99 and he or she says that the 99 was better under Stagecoach London because of the Enviro 400Hs. Hybrids still emit exhaust fumes, it's just that they emit less fumes than a conventional diesel. So the fumes from a EuroVI hybrid will be just as "toxic" as those from a EuroVI diesel, but there should be less of them, so overall the hybrid should have a lesser impact. It's more a question of perception - for many people hybrids are seen as being "good" whereas pure diesels are "evil".
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Post by COBO on Jul 30, 2019 21:59:25 GMT
Is Euro 5 & 6 toxic? I ask because I have someone on my Wikia keeps complaining about how the 99 is bad under Arriva London because of the toxic fumes from the DWs on the 99 and he or she says that the 99 was better under Stagecoach London because of the Enviro 400Hs. He or she is right the Enviro 400Hs are much better for the environment and also your own personal health. Is the service better under stagecoach? for that I couldn't comment as never used the route. But ie Euro 5 or 6 Diesel toxic? Are Enviro 400Hs much better for the enviroment?
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Post by vjaska on Jul 30, 2019 22:14:12 GMT
Is Euro 5 & 6 toxic? I ask because I have someone on my Wikia keeps complaining about how the 99 is bad under Arriva London because of the toxic fumes from the DWs on the 99 and he or she says that the 99 was better under Stagecoach London because of the Enviro 400Hs. Hybrids still emit exhaust fumes, it's just that they emit less fumes than a conventional diesel. So the fumes from a EuroVI hybrid will be just as "toxic" as those from a EuroVI diesel, but there should be less of them, so overall the hybrid should have a lesser impact. It's more a question of perception - for many people hybrids are seen as being "good" whereas pure diesels are "evil". Exactly and thats before you even throw into the equation the amount of pollution generated from producing the batteries for hybrids.
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Post by george on Jul 30, 2019 22:20:19 GMT
He or she is right the Enviro 400Hs are much better for the environment and also your own personal health. Is the service better under stagecoach? for that I couldn't comment as never used the route. But ie Euro 5 or 6 Diesel toxic? Are Enviro 400Hs much better for the enviroment? I'm not an expert so think someone else on here would better suited to answer that.
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 31, 2019 8:27:15 GMT
Hybrids still emit exhaust fumes, it's just that they emit less fumes than a conventional diesel. So the fumes from a EuroVI hybrid will be just as "toxic" as those from a EuroVI diesel, but there should be less of them, so overall the hybrid should have a lesser impact. It's more a question of perception - for many people hybrids are seen as being "good" whereas pure diesels are "evil". Exactly and thats before you even throw into the equation the amount of pollution generated from producing the batteries for hybrids. I think an even bigger issue is the disposal of spent batteries. With regards are Euro6 toxic ... burning any fossil fuel in sufficient quantities is toxic, whether it be from vehicles, electricity generation or household heating/cooking .... Euro6 vehicles are a ten-fold cleaner than vehicles of just a couple of decades ago ... and you never heard much of an issue with vehicles being toxic in the 80s ... Euro6 vehicles are pretty clean in comparison.
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Post by ronnie on Jul 31, 2019 8:46:01 GMT
But surely if route is up for tender and previous operator has semi new and good fleet of buses that can easily be used for next 5 or even more years it would make sense for TFL to go for that bid over let's say for another operator who doesn't have the fleet of buses and therefore automatically will have to put a higher bid to compensate for buses? Like even if the old operator service wasn't super good, surely TFL would still go for cheaper option and operator who already has buses, no? I guess part of it is politics...and what does my head in is when routes that start and terminate at specific bus garage is awarded to another operator who is terminating at the enemy operator garage lol, aka 171 for instance. Slightly off topic but which other examples are there of buses terminating right outside a garage and being run by a competitor (aka the enemy)? I can think of the 68 at west Norwood but am sure other examples exist
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Post by george on Jul 31, 2019 8:49:25 GMT
But surely if route is up for tender and previous operator has semi new and good fleet of buses that can easily be used for next 5 or even more years it would make sense for TFL to go for that bid over let's say for another operator who doesn't have the fleet of buses and therefore automatically will have to put a higher bid to compensate for buses? Like even if the old operator service wasn't super good, surely TFL would still go for cheaper option and operator who already has buses, no? I guess part of it is politics...and what does my head in is when routes that start and terminate at specific bus garage is awarded to another operator who is terminating at the enemy operator garage lol, aka 171 for instance. Slightly off topic but which other examples are there of buses terminating right outside a garage and being run by a competitor (aka the enemy)? I can think of the 68 at west Norwood but am sure other examples exist 171 terminates outside of TL
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Post by Pilot on Jul 31, 2019 15:08:16 GMT
Slightly off topic but which other examples are there of buses terminating right outside a garage and being run by a competitor (aka the enemy)? I can think of the 68 at west Norwood but am sure other examples exist 171 terminates outside of TL Yeah but literally destination is Catford Bus Garage, and they need to use it in order to turn themselves around and have mutual agreement with company to park the bus in the yard for stand break, 320 also uses it as curtailment point.
You could say the same for New Cross Garage for instance, the 343 terminates/starts right around the corner of the garage, would it even make sense for say Catford to win that route? Kinda no, but then again look at 171 so....
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Post by george on Jul 31, 2019 15:22:10 GMT
171 terminates outside of TL Yeah but literally destination is Catford Bus Garage, and they need to use it in order to turn themselves around and have mutual agreement with company to park the bus in the yard for stand break, 320 also uses it as curtailment point.
You could say the same for New Cross Garage for instance, the 343 terminates/starts right around the corner of the garage, would it even make sense for say Catford to win that route? Kinda no, but then again look at 171 so....
ok but i was right though wasn't I. Another one was the 33 that used to stand just outside of TF.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 31, 2019 15:23:52 GMT
But surely if route is up for tender and previous operator has semi new and good fleet of buses that can easily be used for next 5 or even more years it would make sense for TFL to go for that bid over let's say for another operator who doesn't have the fleet of buses and therefore automatically will have to put a higher bid to compensate for buses? Like even if the old operator service wasn't super good, surely TFL would still go for cheaper option and operator who already has buses, no? I guess part of it is politics...and what does my head in is when routes that start and terminate at specific bus garage is awarded to another operator who is terminating at the enemy operator garage lol, aka 171 for instance. Slightly off topic but which other examples are there of buses terminating right outside a garage and being run by a competitor (aka the enemy)? I can think of the 68 at west Norwood but am sure other examples exist Not directly outside but the 148 is a stone's throw away from both Q and WL.
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Post by Frenzie on Jul 31, 2019 18:49:49 GMT
But surely if route is up for tender and previous operator has semi new and good fleet of buses that can easily be used for next 5 or even more years it would make sense for TFL to go for that bid over let's say for another operator who doesn't have the fleet of buses and therefore automatically will have to put a higher bid to compensate for buses? Like even if the old operator service wasn't super good, surely TFL would still go for cheaper option and operator who already has buses, no? I guess part of it is politics...and what does my head in is when routes that start and terminate at specific bus garage is awarded to another operator who is terminating at the enemy operator garage lol, aka 171 for instance. Slightly off topic but which other examples are there of buses terminating right outside a garage and being run by a competitor (aka the enemy)? I can think of the 68 at west Norwood but am sure other examples exist The 81, 120 and 222 all stand on AV’s forecourt. You also have the 33 and N22 at TF.
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Post by busaholic on Jul 31, 2019 19:44:58 GMT
Bus companies are going to have to be told by TfL (if they haven't been already) that, in future, if a bus route terminates at a bus garage then, regardless of the operator, it will be incumbent on that operator to take reasonable steps to provide space for that service. If there are considered to be 'issues' that might make this difficult, perhaps at certain times of day only e.g. BN towards the end of the p.m. rush hour could be a legitimate case, then these could be argued BUT the presumption would otherwise be made that access was permissible and, if the operator didn't agree, then their own ability to tender for routes could be in jeopardy. A half decent head of bus operations would make this clear, and, you watch, the 'problems' would miraculously disappear.
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