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Post by jrussa on Jul 16, 2009 4:41:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2012 1:59:43 GMT
i still ait given up for my night bus back. 3 years later
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Post by jrussa on Sept 8, 2013 3:32:31 GMT
There has been some recent news announced by my friend, the Deputy Leader of the House Commons and MP for Carshalton and Wallington, The Right Honourable Tom Brake... He posted the following comments on his facebook page in recent days POST ONE --- Night Bus Decision5 September 2013 at 02:50 "I have been recently sent an email indicating that TfL are due to make a decision on whether to introduce later running services in Carshalton and Wallington in the next two weeks . The email from TfL reveals that they are considering running later journeys on route 154, in part compensation for the withdrawal of route N213. The removal of the N213 left us without a night bus from Croydon to Carshalton and Wallington. The decision has particularly affected young people and shift workers – many of whom were forced to walk or pay for mini cabs. We need to demonstrate local support for night services, that is why I will be handing in a petition at the City Hall, calling on TfL and the Mayor to extend the 154 bus service operating hours. If you want later running buses to be reintroduced then make sure you sign the petition. Tfl are currently investigating the possibility of providing some later journeys from Croydon to Sutton in part replacement for the former N213 route which was withdrawn in July 2009. Earlier this year, I met with TravelWatch, London’s transport watchdog, to discuss, amongst other travel issues, the possibility of extending the operating times of the 154 route. Reducing the time between the last and first bus on the 154 route would provide Carshalton and Wallington residents with at least a partial night service. As the current gap is less than 4 hours, the additional service every 30 minutes would only require a few additional journeys. If you’re interested in signing the petition, please send an email with your name and address to info@tombrake.co.uk putting ‘Night Bus’ in the subject line." POST TWO ---- (Yesterday)"In the next two weeks, TfL and Boris Johnson will be making a decision on whether to provide later-running bus services in our area and I need your help to show that we want night bus services re-instated. Back in 2009, more than 5,000 local people joined the campaign against the axing of the N213 bus route – Carshalton and Wallington’s only night bus service. The night bus was an essential service for many young people and shift workers, many of whom were left to rely on mini-cabs or to make their journeys home from Croydon by foot late at night.Tom with bus protesters An email from TfL seen by me states that: we are investigating the possibility of running some later journeys on route 154 in part compensation for the withdrawal of route N213, and this proposal will be considered within the next fortnight Our community needs later bus services to and from Croydon and that is why I am asking you to click eepurl.com/x-UuP and sign the petition calling for the reintroduction of later bus services. Thank you for your support. Hopefully, this will be another step towards improving transport services in our area." Tom Brake is a fantastic Member of Parliament and is REALLY passionate about serving his constituency and the UK in general...
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Post by vjaska on Sept 8, 2013 3:40:23 GMT
Can't see why they don't just re-introduce the N213 if that many people signed the petition - seems like Carshalton & Wallington residents are settling for 2nd best.
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Post by Tangy on Sept 8, 2013 6:12:44 GMT
Though it will provide later journeys on the Morden- Sutton corridor which also isn't served by any night bus route, since the N155 was curtailed at Morden.
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Post by 6HP502C on Sept 8, 2013 11:08:08 GMT
I've found a need to go towards Kingston a number of times in recent weeks after clubbing in Croydon, usually on student night on a Thursday. The result being I cut my night short and catch the last 407 of the day, which conveniently links very nicely with the 213 at Sutton Post Office (though the connection in Kingston for the 281 is around 29 minutes.) An orbital night service in this area would certainly help out revellers. I meet quite a few people from Wallington/Carshalton and Sutton in the clubs and when I crack a joke about the bus service they often say it's annoying that there is no night service and that they rely on their parents to pick them up or stay over at friend's houses in Croydon - not ideal at all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2013 15:50:33 GMT
Night bus service seems to be very sketchy at best. No strategy of serving a network, but simply demand led, as long as it also sticks to normal daytime routes aswell.
I dont think any of those criteria are the best for night time use, when congestion tends to be low enough to allow alternative thinking and solutions to daytime strategies.
Its a well known aim that TfL try to provide a bus service to within 400m of every London resident. Why is there no similar aspiration for night bus services? Granted demand is less, but the stated aspiration is based on distance, not useage. Though in practice there will be some grey areas of compromise for daytime routes, there are vast swathes of London which are compromised in this way for night buses. Just doesnt seem to have an equal treatment.
Is useage follows some kind of distribution based on peak hours, shopping hours, etc etc, before tailing off into the night, then why do so many day-only routes go straight from at night a 15/20/30 min frequency to nothing for 4-5 hours. Surely to match demand there shouldnt be a sudden cliff edge in provision, it should taper to larger gaps before midnight but keep going longer, even if only one bus every 2 hours for the dead of night?
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Post by snoggle on Sept 8, 2013 17:01:33 GMT
Night bus service seems to be very sketchy at best. No strategy of serving a network, but simply demand led, as long as it also sticks to normal daytime routes aswell. I dont think any of those criteria are the best for night time use, when congestion tends to be low enough to allow alternative thinking and solutions to daytime strategies. Its a well known aim that TfL try to provide a bus service to within 400m of every London resident. Why is there no similar aspiration for night bus services? Granted demand is less, but the stated aspiration is based on distance, not useage. Though in practice there will be some grey areas of compromise for daytime routes, there are vast swathes of London which are compromised in this way for night buses. Just doesnt seem to have an equal treatment. Is useage follows some kind of distribution based on peak hours, shopping hours, etc etc, before tailing off into the night, then why do so many day-only routes go straight from at night a 15/20/30 min frequency to nothing for 4-5 hours. Surely to match demand there shouldnt be a sudden cliff edge in provision, it should taper to larger gaps before midnight but keep going longer, even if only one bus every 2 hours for the dead of night? I think part of the problem is establishing where the demand genuinely is. Some of it is obvious - to, from and within the Central area. However even then some places are much quieter than you might expect. I was recently at Victoria in the middle of the night and was genuinely surprised at how quiet it was on a Fri night / Sat morning. Other areas of demand are the key radial corridors which parallel daytime rail and tube routes plus some bits and bobs between regional centres like Croydon, Kingston and Bromley. Heathrow is the other exception given the unusual working times so some routes have very early journeys. For me the element that is missing in a few places are orbital links that would take people effectively between centres but to be fair some of these have been tried and have been killed off due to lack of demand - 58, 75, 236, 274. I completely understand why people are fed up with no Sutton to Croydon link but this is another of those marginal night bus cutbacks from a few years ago. These started under Ken's regime and have carried on under Boris. Clearly TfL are only considering a de minimis provision that can be achieved at negligible cost for the 154. I don't disagree with you about road conditions allowing some more flexibility in route planning but it is important that services run reliably especially if low frequency. It's evident that some routes really struggle to run reliably because there is little recovery time in the schedules. The night bus network cannot really replicate the entirety of the day time network. For one thing there is not the demand for that level of service nor would the public want buses rumbling through housing estates and residential areas. It is telling that some recent changes have seen residents request that buses finish early and start later than normal to reduce noise - the 255 extension is one such example as were the revised 395 and 398 which have early or relatively early finishes. I can imagine lots of people complaining if they suddenly had buses at all hours. And just to maintain my predictable comments - there is no money to expand the night bus network to any great extent. I note the much rumoured N7 extension to Rayners Lane disappeared pretty quickly but perhaps that is an option for the new contract and might appear if the costs can be contained? I'd quite like to see a night 123 (even if we lost some N73s beyond Tottenham) and a night 34 to fill in some orbital gaps but I'm not holding my breath. Don't forget that the proposed Night W3, Night 141 (and I think Night 144) services never materialised despite being on the stocks for several months.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2013 12:43:16 GMT
Night bus service seems to be very sketchy at best. No strategy of serving a network, but simply demand led, as long as it also sticks to normal daytime routes aswell. I dont think any of those criteria are the best for night time use, when congestion tends to be low enough to allow alternative thinking and solutions to daytime strategies. Its a well known aim that TfL try to provide a bus service to within 400m of every London resident. Why is there no similar aspiration for night bus services? Granted demand is less, but the stated aspiration is based on distance, not useage. Though in practice there will be some grey areas of compromise for daytime routes, there are vast swathes of London which are compromised in this way for night buses. Just doesnt seem to have an equal treatment. Is useage follows some kind of distribution based on peak hours, shopping hours, etc etc, before tailing off into the night, then why do so many day-only routes go straight from at night a 15/20/30 min frequency to nothing for 4-5 hours. Surely to match demand there shouldnt be a sudden cliff edge in provision, it should taper to larger gaps before midnight but keep going longer, even if only one bus every 2 hours for the dead of night? Exactly, it would be nice to have a cohesive night bus network, as it is it's done on a route by route basis when they get retendered, some areas have an excessive service, some have an inadequate service and some no night service at all, the N213 fiasco being a case in point. Of course there are other ways of linking Croydon and Sutton at night such as a 24 hour 154 or an extension of the 119 from Purley Way. To suggest the service was poorly used is just ridiculous and I would have thought that at least an hourly night service, half hourly Fri/Sat nights, could be justified on the 75. I know exactly what you mean about the 'cliff edge' and there was a suggestion elsewhere that a route like the N137 should start about 21.00 replacing the 137 and 417 and have a gradual reduction in service rather than going straight from 6bph to 2bph.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 9, 2013 13:36:42 GMT
Night bus service seems to be very sketchy at best. No strategy of serving a network, but simply demand led, as long as it also sticks to normal daytime routes aswell. I dont think any of those criteria are the best for night time use, when congestion tends to be low enough to allow alternative thinking and solutions to daytime strategies. Its a well known aim that TfL try to provide a bus service to within 400m of every London resident. Why is there no similar aspiration for night bus services? Granted demand is less, but the stated aspiration is based on distance, not useage. Though in practice there will be some grey areas of compromise for daytime routes, there are vast swathes of London which are compromised in this way for night buses. Just doesnt seem to have an equal treatment. Is useage follows some kind of distribution based on peak hours, shopping hours, etc etc, before tailing off into the night, then why do so many day-only routes go straight from at night a 15/20/30 min frequency to nothing for 4-5 hours. Surely to match demand there shouldnt be a sudden cliff edge in provision, it should taper to larger gaps before midnight but keep going longer, even if only one bus every 2 hours for the dead of night? Exactly, it would be nice to have a cohesive night bus network, as it is it's done on a route by route basis when they get retendered, some areas have an excessive service, some have an inadequate service and some no night service at all, the N213 fiasco being a case in point. Of course there are other ways of linking Croydon and Sutton at night such as a 24 hour 154 or an extension of the 119 from Purley Way. To suggest the service was poorly used is just ridiculous and I would have thought that at least an hourly night service, half hourly Fri/Sat nights, could be justified on the 75. I know exactly what you mean about the 'cliff edge' and there was a suggestion elsewhere that a route like the N137 should start about 21.00 replacing the 137 and 417 and have a gradual reduction in service rather than going straight from 6bph to 2bph. To solve the lack of night service in Norwood Junction right through to Sutton, the N2 could be extended via Anerley, then from the Robin Hood junction via the 75 to Croydon, then 154 to Sutton. The N3 could be diverted via the 227 between Crystal Palace & Penge by double running along the Parade via the bus station.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 13, 2013 20:47:21 GMT
And TfL have clearly taken the decision and here is the press release. Looks like a better Sunday and daily evening service plus three extra late departures from Croydon but nothing later from Morden. It's an interesting approach as it breaks some TfL rules about consistency of approach as it effectively gives a bit of a night service from Croydon only. Still at least they have been pragmatic instead of dogmatic.
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Post by jay38a on Sept 13, 2013 21:07:57 GMT
And TfL have clearly taken the decision and here is the press release. Looks like a better Sunday and daily evening service plus three extra late departures from Croydon but nothing later from Morden. It's an interesting approach as it breaks some TfL rules about consistency of approach as it effectively gives a bit of a night service from Croydon only. Still at least they have been pragmatic instead of dogmatic. All they seem to have done is liven up the garage journeys. I can see those journeys being stupidly tightly timed.
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Post by Steve80 on Sept 14, 2013 2:55:34 GMT
Yes, they could at least extended the extra trips all the way to morden. Im sure that some passengers will make use of the new journeys but will be surprised when they get kicked off in Sutton.
The increase of the evening and sunday frequency to every 15 minutes is surely a good thing. Doing the 157 in the evenings from morden, some of the passengers you pick up along the route tend to get off at the sainsburys stop in wallington and the look on their faces always amuse me when they realise how long they have to wait for the 154/455 to roundshaw
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2013 13:47:32 GMT
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Post by snowman on Sept 19, 2013 6:48:01 GMT
It is interesting how TfL have presented this in today's Metro newspaper. Basically say they have found a new low cost way of providing a later service.
The obvious spin off is how many other routes can this be applied to now they are trying to save money. There are a number of night routes (or sections of route) that run nearly empty so could be cut
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