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Post by snowman on May 23, 2019 12:15:23 GMT
The starting point is whether the 94 is actually getting electrics. I’ve heard it is and it is for the current pvr as for now the route will remain intact. If these arrive in time the existing hybrids will probably go onto the 266. As for the 81 I would find it hard to understand why the ADE’s can’t go onto Epsom routes rather than SP’s ? But if the 72, as part of the evolving Hammersmith chaos, then went double-deck,would it not have to receive those VHs ordered for it, or would an industry style fudge (as is normal of late)? Since the VHs were ordered for delivery in 2016 (and 72 tender was won on basis of 20 new double deck hybrids) the VHs were reallocated and contract was amended to be operated by single decks From memory the 18 tender win was based on utilising 12 of the VHs that couldn't be used as bridge didn't get strengthened in 2016 I think 5 were converted into those required for Kingston University Not totally sure where others ended up, but possibly became part of the PVR increase on 65 So there are not any double decks for 72 anymore as already been reallocated
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Post by southlondonbus on May 23, 2019 12:25:08 GMT
I thought the 72s contract got changed to one for 4 years using existing Single Deckers anyway.
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Post by 725DYE on May 23, 2019 18:18:53 GMT
Driver rumour and a bit of research suggests that the E10’s SDEs may go to the 463. I have been speaking to multiple drivers from EB over the past few weeks, and they’ve told me that the WS are being withdrawn because ‘they don’t want something that falls apart on the road.’ Which lead me think - what might replace them? There are 13 ex-Arriva London SDEs currently at London United (one is allocated to the S3, the others are allocated to the E10. The 463 has a TVR of 11 (correct me if I am wrong), and therefore meaning it would be easier if the WS are going to put the E10 SDEs on the 463, and have new SDEs on the K5, which is a first for the whole Route, as I don’t believe it has ever had a full allocation of new buses. PS. When does the electric single decker rule come in? I’m hoping for some SBEs in the route... Ahhh yes, my favourite game. Speculation roulette!
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Post by LT 20181 on May 23, 2019 18:23:58 GMT
Driver rumour and a bit of research suggests that the E10’s SDEs may go to the 463. I have been speaking to multiple drivers from EB over the past few weeks, and they’ve told me that the WS are being withdrawn because ‘they don’t want something that falls apart on the road.’ Which lead me think - what might replace them? There are 13 ex-Arriva London SDEs currently at London United (one is allocated to the S3, the others are allocated to the E10. The 463 has a TVR of 11 (correct me if I am wrong), and therefore meaning it would be easier if the WS are going to put the E10 SDEs on the 463, and have new SDEs on the K5, which is a first for the whole Route, as I don’t believe it has ever had a full allocation of new buses. PS. When does the electric single decker rule come in? I’m hoping for some SBEs in the route... Ahhh yes, my favourite game. Speculation roulette! Looks like it's time to stay away from the forum again
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Post by thebusguy on May 23, 2019 18:45:04 GMT
snowman Anything seen? I'm popping down soon to have a look (and hopefully prove some people wrong [fingers crossed...]).
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Post by vjaska on May 23, 2019 19:22:47 GMT
snowman Anything seen? I'm popping down soon to have a look (and hopefully prove some people wrong [fingers crossed...]). I take it your disregarding busdryver information despite his obvious connection with London United?
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Post by thebusguy on May 23, 2019 19:48:27 GMT
snowman Anything seen? I'm popping down soon to have a look (and hopefully prove some people wrong [fingers crossed...]). I take it your disregarding busdryver information despite his obvious connection with London United? Nope, I was just kidding... (me swallows my pride)
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Post by 725DYE on May 23, 2019 20:02:38 GMT
I take it your disregarding busdryver information despite his obvious connection with London United? Nope, I was just kidding... (me swallows my pride) Could we maybe stop talking about things which aren't true/ irrelevant to the thread subject?
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Post by redexpress on May 23, 2019 20:28:43 GMT
There are only 11 ex-Arriva SDEs (9x 14-reg and 2x 12-reg). Re: K5, Quality Line bought new Solos for the route in 2011 (OS20252-4 in today's money - the route had a PVR of 3 then, and didn't need its own spare, so that was the full allocation). Going back a bit more, Mitcham Belle also took a full complement of new Solos when they won the route in 2001.
Transdev brought two DPK class MPD's in 2006 for the route though I'd imagine an older MPD was used as a spare as it had a PVR of 3 I believe? The 2006 award was on the basis of shortening the route to Kingston - Morden only. This would have reduced the PVR to 2 so 2 DPKs were ordered (with such a low PVR it didn't need its own spare, as there were enough spare DPKs for the K1 and K4 allocations). The Ham section was repreived after locals protested but no extra bus was ordered, so there was never a full allocation of brand new DPKs.
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Post by redbus on May 23, 2019 20:37:03 GMT
They're leased buses, they have a duty of care to them and I am sure TfL have standards as well as ways to ensure the maintenance of the buses. I cannot imagine buses would be leased out then TfL don't care what goes on for the next 5 years. Well exactly. If we go back to the original post there is clearly some form of "dispute" between TfL, RATP and Wrightbus. This could revolve around a whole pile of things - have RATP maintained them properly? Is Wrightbus doing its bit under whatever warranties were provided? Have TfL done their part of lessor of the vehicles? Are the vehicles performing to the promised reliability levels? Who knows?! I suspect Abellio will have no choice whatsoever in taking on this batch of vehicles. They will be expected to take them on and to ensure their Fulwell garage is able to maintain them. RATP have a large fleet of LTs - I'd expect them to be able to look after these buses by now unless something has gone spectacularly wrong at FW. I don't FW garage or its route performance that well but it's not exactly inexperienced at looking after buses. I am sure I read here or on whatdotheyknow that TfL have a specification for the returning condition of an LT. It would be up to the existing Operator to agree with TfL that any LTs returned meet that specification. Equally any new Operator would surely check the LTs and agree their condition with TfL, for they would not wish to be liable for any deficiencies. Think of it a bit like returning a hire car.
The Operator would no doubt have a maintenance schedule etc to be observed and assuming they do this and the LTs prove unreliable, then I think this would be a bigger problem for TfL than the Operator. The Operator will no doubt substitute with other buses as we sometimes see.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2019 21:23:30 GMT
Well exactly. If we go back to the original post there is clearly some form of "dispute" between TfL, RATP and Wrightbus. This could revolve around a whole pile of things - have RATP maintained them properly? Is Wrightbus doing its bit under whatever warranties were provided? Have TfL done their part of lessor of the vehicles? Are the vehicles performing to the promised reliability levels? Who knows?! I suspect Abellio will have no choice whatsoever in taking on this batch of vehicles. They will be expected to take them on and to ensure their Fulwell garage is able to maintain them. RATP have a large fleet of LTs - I'd expect them to be able to look after these buses by now unless something has gone spectacularly wrong at FW. I don't FW garage or its route performance that well but it's not exactly inexperienced at looking after buses. I am sure I read here or on whatdotheyknow that TfL have a specification for the returning condition of an LT. It would be up to the existing Operator to agree with TfL that any LTs returned meet that specification. Equally any new Operator would surely check the LTs and agree their condition with TfL, for they would not wish to be liable for any deficiencies. Think of it a bit like returning a hire car.
The Operator would no doubt have a maintenance schedule etc to be observed and assuming they do this and the LTs prove unreliable, then I think this would be a bigger problem for TfL than the Operator. The Operator will no doubt substitute with other buses as we sometimes see.
I wouldn’t be surprised if RATP are trying to keep LT1000. It’s their adopted “showbus” at the moment !
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Post by sid on May 23, 2019 21:27:53 GMT
Well exactly. If we go back to the original post there is clearly some form of "dispute" between TfL, RATP and Wrightbus. This could revolve around a whole pile of things - have RATP maintained them properly? Is Wrightbus doing its bit under whatever warranties were provided? Have TfL done their part of lessor of the vehicles? Are the vehicles performing to the promised reliability levels? Who knows?! I suspect Abellio will have no choice whatsoever in taking on this batch of vehicles. They will be expected to take them on and to ensure their Fulwell garage is able to maintain them. RATP have a large fleet of LTs - I'd expect them to be able to look after these buses by now unless something has gone spectacularly wrong at FW. I don't FW garage or its route performance that well but it's not exactly inexperienced at looking after buses. I am sure I read here or on whatdotheyknow that TfL have a specification for the returning condition of an LT. It would be up to the existing Operator to agree with TfL that any LTs returned meet that specification. Equally any new Operator would surely check the LTs and agree their condition with TfL, for they would not wish to be liable for any deficiencies. Think of it a bit like returning a hire car.
The Operator would no doubt have a maintenance schedule etc to be observed and assuming they do this and the LTs prove unreliable, then I think this would be a bigger problem for TfL than the Operator. The Operator will no doubt substitute with other buses as we sometimes see.
It's already been pointed out that all but one of the batch is in service and the one that isn't has accident damage so I think we draw our own conclusions from that?
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Post by vjaska on May 23, 2019 23:06:43 GMT
I am sure I read here or on whatdotheyknow that TfL have a specification for the returning condition of an LT. It would be up to the existing Operator to agree with TfL that any LTs returned meet that specification. Equally any new Operator would surely check the LTs and agree their condition with TfL, for they would not wish to be liable for any deficiencies. Think of it a bit like returning a hire car.
The Operator would no doubt have a maintenance schedule etc to be observed and assuming they do this and the LTs prove unreliable, then I think this would be a bigger problem for TfL than the Operator. The Operator will no doubt substitute with other buses as we sometimes see.
It's already been pointed out that all but one of the batch is in service and the one that isn't has accident damage so I think we draw our own conclusions from that? Despite my obvious opinions about them, the later batches seem far more reliable than the early ones. As I compile a fleet list, I do check LVF more than normal and pretty much all later batches seem to be reliable judging from how many & how often they're in service.
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Post by vjaska on May 23, 2019 23:08:06 GMT
Transdev brought two DPK class MPD's in 2006 for the route though I'd imagine an older MPD was used as a spare as it had a PVR of 3 I believe? The 2006 award was on the basis of shortening the route to Kingston - Morden only. This would have reduced the PVR to 2 so 2 DPKs were ordered (with such a low PVR it didn't need its own spare, as there were enough spare DPKs for the K1 and K4 allocations). The Ham section was repreived after locals protested but no extra bus was ordered, so there was never a full allocation of brand new DPKs. Thanks for that, generally didn't know that happened regarding the K5 opposition
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Post by snowman on May 24, 2019 5:21:03 GMT
Today is last day of RATP operating the E11 (Abellio from tomorrow) likely to be the last day of the ex NCP 2007 SDEs and some 2008 SDEs
The E10 passes to Abellio one week later
For completeness E11 has SDE 20201-05, 10, 11, 14 Although 20202 hasn’t been used for 4 weeks, and 20210 not used for 10 days
Of the other 4 remaining 20206 is a rarely used backup for K4 at Tolworth and 20207-09 are at Epsom working S3, K5 etc. It is expected that the E10 fleet will move early June to replace these
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