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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2013 13:26:56 GMT
This is probably my first contribution to the forum, but I have been a member for some time.
I live outside the (well outside!) the forum area, but my daughter does live inwith.
She has a complaint about her local route, the P13 and says it never runs to to time; sometimes 10 minutes early or even 20 minutes late (generally a 20 minute frequency) and the drivers answer her questions with abuse.
Has anyone on the forum any explanation please?
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Post by jay38a on Jan 6, 2013 13:32:17 GMT
The major problem with the P13 is the South Circular and the length of the route, as a lot of the route follows the South Circular, its a major traffic black-spot and if anything goes wrong the P13 goes to pot.
Also the distance from the Beddington Garage to Streatham doesn't help the route, as the drivers could be delayed getting to the changeover point.
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Post by beaver14uk on Jan 6, 2013 14:18:05 GMT
I would urge you to put a comment in via the TfL website so this can be properly investigated. Certainly there should not be the early running that you describe. As much as I appreciate other forum members comments on your question, we are really only speculating and this does need proper investigation. This is probably my first contribution to the forum, but I have been a member for some time. I live outside the (well outside!) the forum area, but my daughter does live inwith. She has a complaint about her local route, the P13 and says it never runs to to time; sometimes 10 minutes early or even 20 minutes late (generally a 20 minute frequency) and the drivers answer her questions with abuse. Has anyone on the forum any explanation please?
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Post by M1104 on Jan 6, 2013 14:30:15 GMT
This is probably my first contribution to the forum, but I have been a member for some time. I live outside the (well outside!) the forum area, but my daughter does live inwith. She has a complaint about her local route, the P13 and says it never runs to to time; sometimes 10 minutes early or even 20 minutes late (generally a 20 minute frequency) and the drivers answer her questions with abuse. Has anyone on the forum any explanation please? I would suggest calling the number that's displayed on official notices found on every London bus, this notice also includes the reg number of that particular bus where you can help the firm (Abellio London in this case) trace any driver that was abusive in reply. Hopefully they will better explain the reasons for the lack of puntualliy, though the main reasons are as Jay38a mentioned. On a P13 bus the contact notice would be on the left side wall behind the driver's cab under the BUS STOPPING light.
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Post by 6HP502C on Jan 6, 2013 16:28:06 GMT
I've lived on the route for my whole life and can vouch for its unreliability, even in recent times I've seen them running in 2s. It's not just the P13 either - the N3 is also a bus that routinely runs 5-10 minutes early from Oxford Circus for the first few trips on Friday and Saturday nights. The fact that the N35s tend to leave Tottenham Court Road on time, but is often several minutes late by Liverpool Street at the same time of week suggests there is a phenomenon;
- Run services for the customers on time and TfL penalises the operator.
- Run services for the accountants, which is at odds with the published timetable and TfL doesn't penalise the operator.
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Post by Steve80 on Jan 7, 2013 1:19:56 GMT
This is probably my first contribution to the forum, but I have been a member for some time. I live outside the (well outside!) the forum area, but my daughter does live inwith. She has a complaint about her local route, the P13 and says it never runs to to time; sometimes 10 minutes early or even 20 minutes late (generally a 20 minute frequency) and the drivers answer her questions with abuse. Has anyone on the forum any explanation please? Well I drove the P13 a few times last week or so. I last drove it on new years eve. I be honest and tell you that I never leave on time at streatham as they give you too much time to get from A to B. There is traffic in the south circular but most of the time it shouldn't be too much of a problem. You also get the odd traffic in streatham and peckham and at east dulwich especially on a friday and saturday. The P13 did reach its targets for the last two months so im surprised to hear that some buses have not been running to time. I don't do the route often enough (and I never done an early shift on it) so I not really in a position to comment. Like others have said, if you find a bus running early or if a driver is giving abuse, then you should report it by finding out the route number, and the bonnet number which is displayed just below the windscreen. The bonnet number should range between 8014-8037. The time of the incident and location is also a bonus.
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Post by Steve80 on Jan 7, 2013 3:19:26 GMT
I've lived on the route for my whole life and can vouch for its unreliability, even in recent times I've seen them running in 2s. It's not just the P13 either - the N3 is also a bus that routinely runs 5-10 minutes early from Oxford Circus for the first few trips on Friday and Saturday nights. The fact that the N35s tend to leave Tottenham Court Road on time, but is often several minutes late by Liverpool Street at the same time of week suggests there is a phenomenon; - Run services for the customers on time and TfL penalises the operator. - Run services for the accountants, which is at odds with the published timetable and TfL doesn't penalise the operator. One time one the N3, I left 15 early at oxford circus after was instructed to by the ibus team as regent street was closed due to roadworks. I diverted via tottenham court road and shaftsbury avenue and I reached piccadilly 20 minutes early ;D Had to chuck everyone off although I gave people the option to stay on if they wanted but not many did, and I told the many people at haymarket that I will not be leaving for a long time. All of this because of one bus stop in trafalgar square that we monitored at
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Post by M1104 on Jan 7, 2013 15:23:35 GMT
I've lived on the route for my whole life and can vouch for its unreliability, even in recent times I've seen them running in 2s. It's not just the P13 either - the N3 is also a bus that routinely runs 5-10 minutes early from Oxford Circus for the first few trips on Friday and Saturday nights. The fact that the N35s tend to leave Tottenham Court Road on time, but is often several minutes late by Liverpool Street at the same time of week suggests there is a phenomenon; - Run services for the customers on time and TfL penalises the operator. - Run services for the accountants, which is at odds with the published timetable and TfL doesn't penalise the operator. One time one the N3, I left 15 early at oxford circus after was instructed to by the ibus team as regent street was closed due to roadworks. I diverted via tottenham court road and shaftsbury avenue and I reached piccadilly 20 minutes early ;D Had to chuck everyone off although I gave people the option to stay on if they wanted but not many did, and I told the many people at haymarket that I will not be leaving for a long time. All of this because of one bus stop in trafalgar square that we monitored at I would have thought that TfL would be more tolerant to an operator if a bus turned up late due to a diversion, especially if TfL are already aware of the situation. If it turned up late when it was possible to be on time that would be a different matter for them to grant penalties. I can't understand Abellio's passion for holding buses back to extremes when other operators on parallel route 45 (to Abellio's 35), 200 (to Abellio's 152), 52 (to Abellio's 452) allow buses to overtake their leaders, which in effect reduces waiting times.
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Post by joefrombow on Jan 7, 2013 18:10:50 GMT
What is the earliest a driver can operate without getting in trouble ? And what is classed as running late is it like the trains where anything running more than 5 minutes late is classed as running late otherwise isit still on time ?
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Post by M1104 on Jan 7, 2013 19:15:48 GMT
What is the earliest a driver can operate without getting in trouble ? And what is classed as running late is it like the trains where anything running more than 5 minutes late is classed as running late otherwise isit still on time ? From what I have been told it's no earlier than 2 minutes and no later than 5 minutes.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2013 20:05:30 GMT
Thanks for the comments everyone. I understand my daughter is awaiting a reply from TfL.
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Post by sw11simon on Feb 8, 2013 21:44:06 GMT
The P13 and night buses are low frequency and therefore monitored as on time performance. A bus should be within 2.5 mins early and 5 mins late at QSI points to be on time. Most routes need 70-90% on time performance to meet TfL targets (better for a bonus, less for a penalty...always 85% on night bus routes unless that has changed in the last 2 years) - I would imagine by where the P13 goes that it has a low target. However the company is paid better the more on time the route is, so the accountants and the customers should be happy with an on time service. Being a 20 minute service it is possible a 10 minute early bus is in fact 10 minutes late! If buses are regularly running 10 mins early then the controllers are not doing a very good job!
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Post by snoggle on Feb 8, 2013 22:33:13 GMT
The P13 and night buses are low frequency and therefore monitored as on time performance. A bus should be within 2.5 mins early and 5 mins late at QSI points to be on time. Most routes need 70-90% on time performance to meet TfL targets (better for a bonus, less for a penalty...always 85% on night bus routes unless that has changed in the last 2 years) - I would imagine by where the P13 goes that it has a low target. However the company is paid better the more on time the route is, so the accountants and the customers should be happy with an on time service. Being a 20 minute service it is possible a 10 minute early bus is in fact 10 minutes late! If buses are regularly running 10 mins early then the controllers are not doing a very good job! The P13 only has a performance target of 74% for on time departures. 98% for lost mileage. By comparison more recent awards for low frequency services, the 298 and 470, have a minimum target level of 82% on time. The performance stats show a performance quite a bit better than target but still only 80% of buses on time. Lost mileage is low though. www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/businessandpartners/buses/boroughreports/routes/performance-route-P13.pdfLooking at the borough report for Lambeth gives a slightly different set of stats. Just over 10% of P13 buses can be between 5 and 15 mins late. www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/businessandpartners/buses/boroughreports/borough-n-network/lambeth.pdf
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2013 17:58:17 GMT
My wife and I spent a week recently in my daughter's area and found the P13 ran generally on time except on one occasion. We changed buses at Peckham and the P13 was 12 minutes behind schedule, but I can see the problems along part of the route at least, with narrow(ish) roads, parked vehicles and oncoming traffic all slowing its progress.
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Post by 6HP502C on Jun 13, 2013 0:30:10 GMT
The main cause of unreliability does tend to be the South Circular, it locks up at rush hour. Spent several hours of my life which I'll never get back sat on that road waiting to go somewhere. There are also often stalemates with oncoming P13s for several minutes, particularly on the backroads in Peckham between Pytchley Road and Bellenden Road.
Although it is technically the closest route to where I live, I seldom ever use it as I can't rely on it. If I need to go to Peckham, I'll take the train or travel via Dulwich Library.
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