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Route P13
Feb 7, 2014 20:43:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by vjaska on Feb 7, 2014 20:43:37 GMT
With the 136 probably being extended to Elephant & Castle later in the year, I wonder as part of the increased frequency terminate at Peckham Bus Station using the spare capacity left? However it would leave no direct link west of New Cross Gate Sainsburys direct into the superstore without a short walk from the 136 and 436 into the retail complex from Peckham. That direct link never seems to be used that much though - the P13 only ever seems to load from Peckham onwards, likewise, it seems to unload everyone there when heading to New Cross. Cutting it back to Peckham would help the southern end out a lot. I'd also take the chance to move the terminus at Streatham Hub to the main road where the 159 & P13 used to set down the last of their passengers - there's already a stand there & buses can make a U turn via the gap in the central reservation. |
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Feb 8, 2014 0:53:37 GMT
With the 136 probably being extended to Elephant & Castle later in the year, I wonder as part of the increased frequency terminate at Peckham Bus Station using the spare capacity left? However it would leave no direct link west of New Cross Gate Sainsburys direct into the superstore without a short walk from the 136 and 436 into the retail complex from Peckham. That direct link never seems to be used that much though - the P13 only ever seems to load from Peckham onwards, likewise, it seems to unload everyone there when heading to New Cross. Cutting it back to Peckham would help the southern end out a lot. I'd also take the chance to move the terminus at Streatham Hub to the main road where the 159 & P13 used to set down the last of their passengers - there's already a stand there & buses can make a U turn via the gap in the central reservation. The only reason why the route no longer served Asylum Road or the Old Kent Road was to improve reliability which made the New Cross section even more pointless and to be fair Peckham to New Cross is adequately bussed along Queens Road without the P13. |
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Post by vjaska on Feb 8, 2014 1:08:32 GMT
That direct link never seems to be used that much though - the P13 only ever seems to load from Peckham onwards, likewise, it seems to unload everyone there when heading to New Cross. Cutting it back to Peckham would help the southern end out a lot. I'd also take the chance to move the terminus at Streatham Hub to the main road where the 159 & P13 used to set down the last of their passengers - there's already a stand there & buses can make a U turn via the gap in the central reservation. The only reason why the route no longer served Asylum Road or the Old Kent Road was to improve reliability which made the New Cross section even more pointless and to be fair Peckham to New Cross is adequately bussed along Queens Road without the P13. Indeed, I'm in agreement with that  |
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Post by Steve80 on Feb 8, 2014 1:23:23 GMT
That direct link never seems to be used that much though - the P13 only ever seems to load from Peckham onwards, likewise, it seems to unload everyone there when heading to New Cross. Cutting it back to Peckham would help the southern end out a lot. I'd also take the chance to move the terminus at Streatham Hub to the main road where the 159 & P13 used to set down the last of their passengers - there's already a stand there & buses can make a U turn via the gap in the central reservation. The only reason why the route no longer served Asylum Road or the Old Kent Road was to improve reliability which made the New Cross section even more pointless and to be fair Peckham to New Cross is adequately bussed along Queens Road without the P13. I agree that the Peckham to New Cross is overbussed but you get a few passengers that do use the P13 in between those areas. Don't forget that passengers would rather use the P13 than the 321 from New Cross Sainsburys to get the buses towards Peckham or Old Kent road. Also, im sure passengers would cope if the P13 was curtailed permanently to Peckham but to say its pointless is wrong as when I last did it sometime last week, I had several using it from Peckham to New Cross Gate and I served every stop, although the traffic in New Cross road was bad enough and I guess the 136 and 177 were being curtailed away fro Peckham which probably explains why I had so many passengers. The stop outside New Cross Bus Garage heading towards Peckham is another busy stop but its random in that I could pick up many or not pick anyone at all |
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Post by Steve80 on Feb 8, 2014 1:31:16 GMT
Just received a newsletter from my local Tory councillor who mentions that TfL are putting together a business plan to increase the frequency of the P13. I did the P13 last week and had passengers standing right up the window when I got to Dulwich College. The majority of them were students form the college but I was running over 10 minutes late due to the traffic on the South Circular so I wonder if many walked to get the P4 or if they boarded another P13. I don't do the route as much as I like. Normally, I find that the bus does get quite busy at Streatham but eases a bit after Tulse Hill. It gets quite busy at Peckham as well but it eases just at the stop before East Dulwich Sainsburys. Hopefully they would increase the frequency on Sundays as well. |
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Feb 8, 2014 1:53:08 GMT
I considered the issue of a passenger living in Bellenden Road wanting to use New Cross Sainsburys as an issue, yet Sainsburys in East Dulwich is closer and the route already serves it.
Thanks to the P13's long winded nature, serving residential streets in East Dulwich and Peckham, it's not a practical route for someone to use from Dulwich Common to New Cross unless you have time (and patience) to spare as a passenger. Whenever I travel to New Cross, it's a bus to Forest Hill or Honor Oak Park, then the Overground to New Cross Gate which is quicker.
Even if the bus was my only option, I'd be likely to use a direct bus into Peckham (12, 197, 363) then one of the numerous routes which serve Peckham Post Office to NX. Incidentally I don't know if you've noticed Steve80 if your passengers get off at the northbound stop at the bottom of Underhill Road where those going to Peckham change for the 363.
As for frequencies, I'd speculate 15 mins weekdays and Saturday. 20 evenings and Sundays. Sunday can be hellish riding this route thanks to the existing 30 min frequency. All it takes is one bus to be taken out of service and it goes pear shaped.
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Post by sw11simon on Feb 8, 2014 8:49:59 GMT
From a cost/benefit point of view I would suggest TfL could easily justify cutting the route back to Peckham to increase the frequency where it is most needed. Much as there will be people that are helped by the bus going into New Cross Sainsbury's from the north, there are plenty of other services stopping directly on the main road outside. Plus, as already mentioned, the route will continue to directly serve East Dulwich Sainsbury's as an alternative to most people. It makes me wonder if it would be going into Sainsbury's at all had Go-Ahead won the route (as per 36)
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Feb 8, 2014 16:54:06 GMT
If the P13 does terminate in Peckham, how about extending the 343 to Sainsburys? I could see this as being more of a social benefit for those who live on the hill above New Cross and in the parts of Brockley and Peckham Rye that it serves.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2014 17:39:04 GMT
A senior official within Abellio is apparently married to a senior TfL official. Make your own conclusions....
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Post by Nathan on Feb 8, 2014 17:52:09 GMT
If the P13 does terminate in Peckham, how about extending the 343 to Sainsburys? I could see this as being more of a social benefit for those who live on the hill above New Cross and in the parts of Brockley and Peckham Rye that it serves. There's no access to Sainsburys from Jerningham Road. So that wouldn't work. And rerouting the route via Queens Road so that it could is out of the question. Not to mention that Sainsburys isn't even that far from people living in the area you mentioned. |
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Post by beaver14uk on Feb 8, 2014 19:13:40 GMT
Not married - but what is your point? N A senior official within Abellio is apparently married to a senior TfL official. Make your own conclusions.... |
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Post by snoggle on Feb 8, 2014 19:38:09 GMT
As the P13 is a group favourite I thought I'd have a spin on it today. I had to catch it at New Cross Garage as I'd cut things tight arriving at New Cross Gate and the temporary exit route in the station used up precious minutes so it was safer to dash ahead of the bus rather than try to find the Sainsburys stop and have the bus drive off as I approached from behind. The bus was 1/3 full from the Supermarket and then picked up oodles of people through to Peckham. I think this is purely because there'd been a bit of a gap so the P13 took up the slack. A lot of people got off in Peckham but a fair few boarded too.
There were people on and off up to East Dulwich Sainsburys. The loadings were a little lighter from here onwards but there were a few longer distance passengers besides me. We created a huge series of waves passing Southwark Sports Centre as there was so much standing water in the kreb side. Anyone walking on that pavement would have been completely drenched as the bus passed. We then picked up oodles of people just beyond Tulse Hill so we were nearly full again. Given the density of housing along much of the route I suspect that if a x15 minute frequency was provided that passenger numbers would rocket. I rather enjoyed the ride as I saw bits of places I've never been to before and joined up a few bits of London. I imagine that there are quite a lot of regular passengers on the route - it has that feel about it.
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Post by Steve80 on Feb 10, 2014 6:00:05 GMT
I considered the issue of a passenger living in Bellenden Road wanting to use New Cross Sainsburys as an issue, yet Sainsburys in East Dulwich is closer and the route already serves it. Thanks to the P13's long winded nature, serving residential streets in East Dulwich and Peckham, it's not a practical route for someone to use from Dulwich Common to New Cross unless you have time (and patience) to spare as a passenger. Whenever I travel to New Cross, it's a bus to Forest Hill or Honor Oak Park, then the Overground to New Cross Gate which is quicker. Even if the bus was my only option, I'd be likely to use a direct bus into Peckham (12, 197, 363) then one of the numerous routes which serve Peckham Post Office to NX. Incidentally I don't know if you've noticed Steve80 if your passengers get off at the northbound stop at the bottom of Underhill Road where those going to Peckham change for the 363. As for frequencies, I'd speculate 15 mins weekdays and Saturday. 20 evenings and Sundays. Sunday can be hellish riding this route thanks to the existing 30 min frequency. All it takes is one bus to be taken out of service and it goes pear shaped. Bare in mind that whether I do the P13 it is during the afternoon and evenings around 3pm onwards. I never done it in the mornings apart from when I had to learn the route. Anyway, during those times I have done it, I notice that many passengers do get off at that northbound stop in Underhill Road but most seem to walk back towards the bus stops for Forest Hill. I done the route on Sundays. I actually experienced such a scenario when the bus in front of me broke down so passengers had to wait another 30 minutes for my bus. At the time, I had no idea about the bus breaking down so I was really shocked when passengers were moaning about long wait. I think posted my experiences somewhere in the General Discussion Rant Thread  The P13 is a long winded route I don't tend to find many using it from Streatham all the way to New Cross. My usual journey of the route towards New Cross is that you get most boarding at Streatham and Streatham Hill and it will empty out at the Palace Road Stop near Tulse Hill. At Tulse Hill you pick up a few and most will get off at Dulwich near the Harvester Pub. The first stop and the Dunstan Road Stop (the fourth stop) are two stops in Underhill Road that are guaranteed to have passengers boarding or alighting from. Its hit and miss whether I pick up passengers from East Dulwich but there will be passengers from East Dulwich Sainsburys and the Pytchley Road stops who would board. Lots will get off at Peckham Rye but there will always be passengers that would board there also. It doesn't seem to matter how many buses are there someone will choose that P13  The Peckham Post office stop is one you only serve if your the first bus there, and if you are then your guaranteed to serve the rest of the stops all the way to New Cross. As for heading towards Streatham, the post from Snoggle is a typical example of what I experienced  |
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Post by Steve80 on Feb 10, 2014 6:20:11 GMT
As the P13 is a group favourite I thought I'd have a spin on it today. I had to catch it at New Cross Garage as I'd cut things tight arriving at New Cross Gate and the temporary exit route in the station used up precious minutes so it was safer to dash ahead of the bus rather than try to find the Sainsburys stop and have the bus drive off as I approached from behind. The bus was 1/3 full from the Supermarket and then picked up oodles of people through to Peckham. I think this is purely because there'd been a bit of a gap so the P13 took up the slack. A lot of people got off in Peckham but a fair few boarded too. There were people on and off up to East Dulwich Sainsburys. The loadings were a little lighter from here onwards but there were a few longer distance passengers besides me. We created a huge series of waves passing Southwark Sports Centre as there was so much standing water in the kreb side. Anyone walking on that pavement would have been completely drenched as the bus passed. We then picked up oodles of people just beyond Tulse Hill so we were nearly full again. Given the density of housing along much of the route I suspect that if a x15 minute frequency was provided that passenger numbers would rocket. I rather enjoyed the ride as I saw bits of places I've never been to before and joined up a few bits of London. I imagine that there are quite a lot of regular passengers on the route - it has that feel about it. One thing that bothers me when reaching New Cross Bus Garage is that most of the time there are buses parked there with their hazards lights on. It really becomes a problem when there's two parked right at the stops so not only I don't know where the stops are but I can't even see the passengers. I don't do the route much but some of the passengers already notice who I am and vice versa. I even remember regular wheelchair user (with his wife I presume) who would board the last P13 in Old Kent Road near the Toy r Us store and they would travel all the way to Streatham at the last stop. I haven't seen them since the route was diverted to run direct to New Cross.. I agree that more passengers would use it if the frequency was increased. I do find it strange that many buses running into Peckham especially have such high frequencies yet the P13 only runs every 20-30 minutes |
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Post by lonmark on Mar 1, 2014 16:23:58 GMT
Good News for you all. TfL saying:
P13
Streatham station –
New Cross Gate,
Sainsburys
The frequency increases from every 20 minutes to every
15 minutes during Monday to Saturday daytimes, and
from every 30 minutes to every 20 minutes on all evenings
and Sundays during shopping hours.
Start from 22nd March.
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The Peckham Post office stop is one you only serve if your the first bus there, and if you are then your guaranteed to serve the rest of the stops all the way to New Cross.
