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Post by IanF on Apr 11, 2013 0:02:30 GMT
*FreeBBC hat* I wonder if they'll run some NB4L workings on their new routes with the buses from the 24 ;D i was going to ask the same question Freebbc the answer is a resounding no unless the nb4l's are allocated to a route they will not be going on to them end of story.
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Post by Volvo on Apr 11, 2013 0:08:45 GMT
Freebbc surely couldnt have thought that
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Post by rambo on Apr 11, 2013 0:54:47 GMT
All we can do is wait and see.................................
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Post by M1104 on Apr 11, 2013 1:51:25 GMT
Indeed - no route is particularly safe down here! Indeed. Each Garage has it's own individual competitor(s). Metrobus Vs Stagecoach MB vs TB (61, 119, 126, 138, 146, 162, 208, 227, 233, 246, 261, 269, 314, 336, 353, 354, 358, 367, 464, 636, 637, 638, 654, 664, B14, R1, R2, R3, R4, R5, R6, R7, R8, R9, R10, R11, T32) C vs TL (54, 75, 202) MB vs PD (51, 122, 161) MB vs TL (124, 181, 284, 356) Go Ahead London Vs Stagecoach BX vs PD BV vs PD NX vs TL Q vs TL Arriva Vs Go Ahead London N vs AL DT vs BX DT vs BV N vs SW BN vs SW Metrobus Vs Arriva C vs TC MB vs DT Abellio Vs Arriva WL vs N WL vs BN WL vs TH BC vs TC BC vs N Go Ahead London vs Abellio London Q vs WL SW vs WL NX vs WL PM vs WL MW vs WL Not to forget Quality Line in areas like Mitcham, Sutton, Morden and Kingston.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2013 7:39:18 GMT
London United face stiff competition on their own door step from Abellio and Metroline. By contrast, no realistic competition now at all for routes running from ON , G , UX , W , PV. I think Metroline should be forced to give up EW and PV to open up some space for competition.
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Post by cc2005 on Apr 11, 2013 8:42:33 GMT
London United face stiff competition on their own food step from Abellio and Metroline. By contrast, no realistic competition now at all for routes running from ON , G , UX , W , PV. I think Metroline should be forced to give up EW and PV to open up some space for competition. To be honest, I don't think they'd give up one of their more well-established garages in favour of buying off First. I do agree there will be effectively no competition though. I wonder if that will ruin Metroline's chances of getting this takeover through. I do wonder if provisional talks had already taken place with TfL before this announcement. It would surprise me if First, Metroline and Transit Systems entered talks and made deals without getting TfL's agreement in principle first. It would be an embarassment to make an official statement specifying which garages were going to which operator, only to withdraw the statement later because TfL had no idea what was going on.
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Post by cc2005 on Apr 11, 2013 8:48:01 GMT
LOTS state: "Further to this statement, LOTS understands the Berkshire business and the Dagenham Depot, both of which had been managed as part of the London Region of FirstGroup, are not affected and remain with the UK Bus division. Also that Transit Systems will operate as "Tower Transit" in London. Bear in mind that nothing much will change in the immediate future, with it being forecast to take a few months for completion of the deals." Wondering if First are keeping one garage open, which will cost very little to run because it has almost no routes left, as a base to re-expand later on if their finances etc improve at least they got their foot in London's door, and they can bid for more and more work later on, which will be cheaper than trying to buy another operator. Also First's 265 commercial route runs from DM, and if that were sold, the route would probably go too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2013 9:50:21 GMT
London United face stiff competition on their own food step from Abellio and Metroline. By contrast, no realistic competition now at all for routes running from ON , G , UX , W , PV. I think Metroline should be forced to give up EW and PV to open up some space for competition. To be honest, I don't think they'd give up one of their more well-established garages in favour of buying off First. I do agree there will be effectively no competition though. I wonder if that will ruin Metroline's chances of getting this takeover through. Not saying it will happen, but if TfL decided that they had to dispose of Garage XYZ to acquire 5 others ... I am sure Metroline would be more than happy to comply with TfLs instructions
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Post by snoggle on Apr 11, 2013 10:06:16 GMT
To be honest, I don't think they'd give up one of their more well-established garages in favour of buying off First. I do agree there will be effectively no competition though. I wonder if that will ruin Metroline's chances of getting this takeover through. I do wonder if provisional talks had already taken place with TfL before this announcement. It would surprise me if First, Metroline and Transit Systems entered talks and made deals without getting TfL's agreement in principle first. It would be an embarassment to make an official statement specifying which garages were going to which operator, only to withdraw the statement later because TfL had no idea what was going on. TfL will have been advised / consulted as to First's intentions and who the identified purchasers are. However such notification cannot and does not pre-empt formal approval processes nor what the competition authorities may decide. There have been plenty of sales announced (outside of London) where the prospective purchase has been referred. This happened with McGills and Arriva, Stagecoach and Bluebird, First Barnstaple and Stagecoach. The deals have usually gone through after a number of months. The companies cannot be seen to have "sewn everything up behind closed doors" as it could be seen as anti-competitive.
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Post by wh541 on Apr 11, 2013 10:20:19 GMT
LOTS state: "Further to this statement, LOTS understands the Berkshire business and the Dagenham Depot, both of which had been managed as part of the London Region of FirstGroup, are not affected and remain with the UK Bus division. Also that Transit Systems will operate as "Tower Transit" in London. Bear in mind that nothing much will change in the immediate future, with it being forecast to take a few months for completion of the deals." Wondering if First are keeping one garage open, which will cost very little to run because it has almost no routes left, as a base to re-expand later on if their finances etc improve at least they got their foot in London's door, and they can bid for more and more work later on, which will be cheaper than trying to buy another operator. Also First's 265 commercial route runs from DM, and if that were sold, the route would probably go too. I am guess First could just keep Dagenham and run it until the contracts expire then close. At least First will have a presence in London for the short term which provides competition.
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Post by westhamgeezer on Apr 11, 2013 10:34:09 GMT
LOTS state: "Further to this statement, LOTS understands the Berkshire business and the Dagenham Depot, both of which had been managed as part of the London Region of FirstGroup, are not affected and remain with the UK Bus division. Also that Transit Systems will operate as "Tower Transit" in London. Bear in mind that nothing much will change in the immediate future, with it being forecast to take a few months for completion of the deals." Wondering if First are keeping one garage open, which will cost very little to run because it has almost no routes left, as a base to re-expand later on if their finances etc improve at least they got their foot in London's door, and they can bid for more and more work later on, which will be cheaper than trying to buy another operator. Also First's 265 commercial route runs from DM, and if that were sold, the route would probably go too. I am guess First could just keep Dagenham and run it until the contracts expire then close. At least First will have a presence in London for the short term which provides competition. Not sure how it provides competition if (as you suggest) they arent going to bid for any more contracts. Obligating a contract is not providing competition.
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Post by wh541 on Apr 11, 2013 10:38:38 GMT
I am guess First could just keep Dagenham and run it until the contracts expire then close. At least First will have a presence in London for the short term which provides competition. Not sure how it provides competition if (as you suggest) they arent going to bid for any more contracts. Obligating a contract is not providing competition. Who said they wont bid? There is at least the 372 up for tender soon People complain if negative about Dagenham find a positive spin and they gets knocked back ;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2013 10:38:45 GMT
The takeover of Centrewest by Metroline will take place by June 2013. I doubt they will be forced to sell of one of their garages or else the transaction will not be going through. Also it has to be said GAL tookover Rainham, Silvertown, Belvedere and Northumberland Park without being forced to sell so I don't see why Metroline would have to.
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Post by westhamgeezer on Apr 11, 2013 10:41:54 GMT
Not sure how it provides competition if (as you suggest) they arent going to bid for any more contracts. Obligating a contract is not providing competition. Who said they wont bid? There is at least the 372 up for tender soon People complain if negative about Dagenham find a positive spin and they gets knocked back ;D You suggested they would just run the contracts down and then close. I'd be happy for them to bid for other routes
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Post by IanF on Apr 11, 2013 10:44:53 GMT
The takeover of Centrewest by Metroline will take place by June 2013. I doubt they will be forced to sell of one of their garages or else the transaction will not be going through. Also it has to be said GAL tookover Rainham, Silvertown, Belvedere and Northumberland Park without being forced to sell so I don't see why Metroline would have to. Gal's take overs in east london made them enter a new area so not many issues like wise np and belvedere is a small garage and se london theres a few companies where as the first takeover takes out a lot of competition in north west london.
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