Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 14:01:45 GMT
I have a question - Can TfL stop Metroline from taking over all these garages or is it a done deal? Not sure, but the competition commission could if they think Metroline would take over pretty much all of NW London buses. All TfL would have to do if theay wanted a depot sold was threaten to take them off the approved supplier list ... then no ITT ... which would equal no work ... you never bite off the hand that feeds you ... and TfL feeds Metroline
|
|
|
Post by cc2005 on Apr 12, 2013 14:21:20 GMT
I have a question - Can TfL stop Metroline from taking over all these garages or is it a done deal? I believe TfL have to consent to the transfer of the contracts from First Group to Metroline. I would imagine TfL will want some reassurance from Metroline about their ability to take over the businesses, the robustness of their finances to run the larger business and also that the costs currently being paid by TfL will not change (except those payments covered by performance bonuses). The same questions would be posed to the Aussies taking over the three garages. I do not think TfL have a legal power to order Metroline to not buy all the garages they wish to. TfL can, of course, raise concerns with the requisite competition authorities if it has such concerns. I doubt we will ever know the detail one way or the other. TfL will need to be comfortable that it can still obtain "value for money" for route contracts in North West London. It obviously has years of tendering information and will know who has bid for what routes. If there are loads of routes where only 1 operator has bid (e.g. First group in the Uxbridge area - my guess btw) then it might be worried about the future level of contract costs in that area. If there have been 4 bidders for every route in North West for the last 7 years then it might not care very much about losing First! Are the garages involved in the sale owned by First or TfL? If TfL, TfL could simply decide that it will lease the garage to another operator. I think EW is TfL owned. I think X, WH and WL are also TfL owned.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 15:34:30 GMT
Not sure, but the competition commission could if they think Metroline would take over pretty much all of NW London buses. All TfL would have to do if theay wanted a depot sold was threaten to take them off the approved supplier list ... then no ITT ... which would equal no work ... you never bite off the hand that feeds you ... and TfL feeds Metroline TfL are accountable to the general public, they wouldn't get away with any underhand tricks like that.............heads would roll
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 15:48:16 GMT
All TfL would have to do if theay wanted a depot sold was threaten to take them off the approved supplier list ... then no ITT ... which would equal no work ... you never bite off the hand that feeds you ... and TfL feeds Metroline TfL are accountable to the general public, they wouldn't get away with any underhand tricks like that.............heads would roll TfL are accountable to the general public ... they have a duty to ensure the public money is not wasted by market dominance forcing prices up in an area of London ... dont understand what is underhand about it
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Apr 12, 2013 16:06:41 GMT
Not sure, but the competition commission could if they think Metroline would take over pretty much all of NW London buses. All TfL would have to do if theay wanted a depot sold was threaten to take them off the approved supplier list ... then no ITT ... which would equal no work ... you never bite off the hand that feeds you ... and TfL feeds Metroline The problem with that approach is that there would have to be solid grounds, under procurement rules, for TfL to act in such a way. I do not believe that TfL could act in such a way in order to "persuade" a contractor. If I was Metroline and was threatened in that way, which has no basis in law, then I'd be off to the courts to challenge TfL's behaviour. Metroline would have to have broken the law, breached its financial covenants or some other condition of its inclusion on the supplier list for TfL to begin to have grounds to remove them from the list. TfL would also have to act proportionately. It can't threaten Metroline with the loss of all of its business just to try to illegallly force divestment of a garage. TfL would also be landing themselves with a massive crisis because all the bus contracts would be terminated leaving a huge swathe of London without a bus service or any prospect of one for months. TfL would be crucified on the "alter of public opinion" for acting in a precipitate and stupid manner. The Mayor would also be put in the firing line and TfL is not about to do that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 16:10:36 GMT
TfL are accountable to the general public, they wouldn't get away with any underhand tricks like that.............heads would roll TfL are accountable to the general public ... they have a duty to ensure the public money is not wasted by market dominance forcing prices up in an area of London ... dont understand what is underhand about it Correct me if I've misunderstood you but you appear to be suggesting that TfL could bully Metroline (by threatening to give them no further contracts) into selling a garage? I'm sure Metroline would soon have their legal team on the case.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 0:51:34 GMT
Just throwing Leon Daniels' word on the matter into the discussion, as I'm sure many of you have seen on another group:
"Willesden Junction IS being sold to Metroline First owns the business so only they can decide who to sell it to. We at TfL have to give our consent."
|
|
|
Post by wh541 on Apr 13, 2013 20:20:10 GMT
Noticed today lots of First Essex buses on DLR replacement duties - could this be in connection with the sale? fairly unusual to see them on DLR work?
|
|
|
Post by wh541 on Apr 13, 2013 20:22:28 GMT
A quick question re the sale - Are all the buses frozen in place now? as in there will be no more fleet moves? so whats left at Dagenham will stay there etc.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 20:35:56 GMT
A quick question re the sale - Are all the buses frozen in place now? as in there will be no more fleet moves? so whats left at Dagenham will stay there etc. Probably, yes. Makes you wonder what's going to happen with all the redundant buses at DM, possible bids in that area wouldn't use *that* many buses.
|
|
|
Post by wh541 on Apr 13, 2013 20:38:12 GMT
A quick question re the sale - Are all the buses frozen in place now? as in there will be no more fleet moves? so whats left at Dagenham will stay there etc. Probably, yes. Makes you wonder what's going to happen with all the redundant buses at DM, possible bids in that area wouldn't use *that* many buses. Well the 2008 buses will probably be used elsewhere in First UK. I guess they probably would have stayed in London if First never sold the London garages.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 20:49:44 GMT
Probably, yes. Makes you wonder what's going to happen with all the redundant buses at DM, possible bids in that area wouldn't use *that* many buses. Well the 2008 buses will probably be used elsewhere in First UK. I guess they probably would have stayed in London if First never sold the London garages. Seems like quite a waste of a load of decent DNs, in a way. I wonder if DM will be standardised on DNs, and the motley crew of Tridents and B7TLs used on schools there moved on.
|
|
|
Post by wh541 on Apr 13, 2013 20:50:44 GMT
Well the 2008 buses will probably be used elsewhere in First UK. I guess they probably would have stayed in London if First never sold the London garages. Seems like quite a waste of a load of decent DNs, in a way. I wonder if DM will be standardised on DNs, and the motley crew of Tridents and B7TLs used on schools there moved on. Would be a waste of very new buses to run a few trips per day.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 21:05:19 GMT
Seems like quite a waste of a load of decent DNs, in a way. I wonder if DM will be standardised on DNs, and the motley crew of Tridents and B7TLs used on schools there moved on. Would be a waste of very new buses to run a few trips per day. Not really, they're not doing much else. As for the 498's school buses, cross-linked anyway. Guessing there will be DNs kept for the 498.
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Apr 13, 2013 21:48:05 GMT
Would be a waste of very new buses to run a few trips per day. Not really, they're not doing much else. As for the 498's school buses, cross-linked anyway. Guessing there will be DNs kept for the 498. Indeed, depots generally schedule things out so that those vehicles are utilised in one way or another throughout the day.
|
|