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Post by snoggle on Nov 12, 2013 20:30:57 GMT
Attachment DeletedIf this works then you should see an attachment above. This is the spreadsheet showing bus route patronage by route over 12 years. I've added various bits of info to the sheet. There is a lookup box below the main table - just enter a route number in the appropriate cell and press return. This will bring up the data for that route and saves you trawling right through the spreadsheet. Don't overtype the other cells were the data appears as this will overwrite the formula. Let me know if it works.
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Post by DT 11 on Nov 12, 2013 20:41:51 GMT
Why Arriva ... surely it is TfL's responsibility Exactly...............Arriva will do something when TfL tell them I think a new double deck route from Croydon via the 468 route to Upper Norwood, the 249 to Crystal Palace and then taking over the section of the 450 to Lower Sydenhamn and maybe onto Lewisham replacing part of the 181 could perhaps be justified? This would take a lot of pressure off the 450 which could just run from Croydon to Crystal Palace. 450 to Lewisham? I actually laughed at this. I've used that route many times and it isn't exactly reliable especially in the mornings, when I used to work in Sydenham the route wasn't exactly one of the best routes to take up to Crystal Palace after I had finished! It would be a 9000 times worse than the 181 and it uses 9.4m Darts which are smaller than the current fleet!!!! AM peaks Catford Gyratory, Hither Green Lane and Catford Hill traffic, Oh my gosh! By the time you get a 450 through Sangley Road & Catford Gyratory it would probably end up getting turned at Crystal Palace! I can picture it being the most unreliable service in the TFL network. Regularly saw turns like 450 to Sydenham, Crystal Palace and Thornton Heath, Clock Tower. All I can see from this is regular turns to Hither Green and Catford, Town Centre effectively creating the most unreliable service in South East London. The 249 should remain at it's current terminus Anerley Station, the route already looses milage almost daily because of turns in the AM & PM peaks.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2013 20:54:19 GMT
I'm afraid you have not read my posting properly, I did not say the 450 should go to Lewisham and I have not suggested any changes to the 249.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 12, 2013 21:16:27 GMT
View AttachmentIf this works then you should see an attachment above. This is the spreadsheet showing bus route patronage by route over 12 years. I've added various bits of info to the sheet. There is a lookup box below the main table - just enter a route number in the appropriate cell and press return. This will bring up the data for that route and saves you trawling right through the spreadsheet. Don't overtype the other cells were the data appears as this will overwrite the formula. Let me know if it works. Works for me, thanks very much.
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Post by Ted Barclay on Nov 12, 2013 22:53:41 GMT
It works for me as well. A lot of hard work - many thanks Snoggle. View AttachmentIf this works then you should see an attachment above. This is the spreadsheet showing bus route patronage by route over 12 years. I've added various bits of info to the sheet. There is a lookup box below the main table - just enter a route number in the appropriate cell and press return. This will bring up the data for that route and saves you trawling right through the spreadsheet. Don't overtype the other cells were the data appears as this will overwrite the formula. Let me know if it works.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Nov 13, 2013 18:55:41 GMT
You wouldn't double deck the 450, you'd create a new route that doesn't serve the small back roads and loop of the 450. Antman- you wouldn't route it via the 468 between Croydon and Upper Norwood as you'd miss Thornton Heath where most people board and alight. You'd route it via the 250 to Green Lane where it would branch off via Norbury Hill to Norwood, then onwards via the 417. That's the most direct and useful routing that I can think of, plus it would serve Norbury Hill which is currently not served by buses. I really don't see a need for this route - the 450 could be enhanced just by removing the traffic islands on Queens Road and enforcing parking restrictions on Windmill Road allowing longer buses to be used - heck, even deckers could be used as Bensham Lane to Crystal Palace Parade would be fine for deckers. On another note, the 450 doesn't really need to go to Lower Sydenham - majority of passengers from both ends get off at Palace so the 450 should either be cut back to Palace or follow my idea of extending to Loughborough Junction via College Road, Dulwich Wood Park, South Croxted Road, Park Hall Road, Rosendale Road, Norwood Road, Herne Hill & Milkwood Road. With the exception of Herne Hill, it runs along congested free roads and opens up lots of new links & also runs along sections of three roads that is currently not served by buses. An extended 315 from West Norwood would take over the Kingswood Drive/College Road/Fountain Driver section. Those Kingswood Estate residents would kick up a fuss if they lost their link to Lower Sydenham Sainsburys. It also relives the 202 between Bell Green and Sydenham Cobbs Corner.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 13, 2013 23:13:34 GMT
I really don't see a need for this route - the 450 could be enhanced just by removing the traffic islands on Queens Road and enforcing parking restrictions on Windmill Road allowing longer buses to be used - heck, even deckers could be used as Bensham Lane to Crystal Palace Parade would be fine for deckers. On another note, the 450 doesn't really need to go to Lower Sydenham - majority of passengers from both ends get off at Palace so the 450 should either be cut back to Palace or follow my idea of extending to Loughborough Junction via College Road, Dulwich Wood Park, South Croxted Road, Park Hall Road, Rosendale Road, Norwood Road, Herne Hill & Milkwood Road. With the exception of Herne Hill, it runs along congested free roads and opens up lots of new links & also runs along sections of three roads that is currently not served by buses. An extended 315 from West Norwood would take over the Kingswood Drive/College Road/Fountain Driver section. Those Kingswood Estate residents would kick up a fuss if they lost their link to Lower Sydenham Sainsburys. It also relives the 202 between Bell Green and Sydenham Cobbs Corner. The 322 would be extended to Lower Sydenham and would not use the side roads it currently does in West Norwood as the 315 would take that role. Instead, in Norwood, it will run via the one way system, Norwood High Street & Gypsy Road which allows for longer 10.2m or 10.8m vehicles to be used which would then greatly relieve the 202 between Bell Green & Sydenham Cobbs Corner.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 14, 2013 1:46:17 GMT
Cheers for the reply and for clearing that up. I'm really shocked that no one is surprised by how busy the 109 is. I knew it was busy but never that busy! Im not too surprised to see the 109 is 19th on that list and numbers have been rising since 2001. One occasion after doing a night shift at Battersea Garage, I decided to get on the 109 at Streatham st leonards at 6am sunday morning and the bus was extremely busy all the way to Croydon! Thankfully, there is no more need for me to travel regularly to and from Croydon going via Streatham or Brixton. And if I do have to make such journeys again then I will wait for the 50. Personally for me, there should be another route running along the same section as the 109 between Thornton Heath and Streatham Hill, or maybe increase the frequency of the 50. I did have a proposal a while back which involved extending the 64 to Streatham to help out the 109. I chose the 64 because it has a good frequency of every 8 minutes, the route between Park Hill & New Addington is relatively quiet and the route isn't too long already. I decided against going further than Streatham for two reasons: Congestion on Streatham High Road starts from the station where the roads narrows and that could lead to the southern end of the route suffering from it. Also, London Road already has congestion so adding a second congested section doesn't really help The 109 has other routes to fall back on between Streatham & Brixton, mainly the 118, 133, 159, 250 & 333 - after Streatham, the 118 turns off towards Streatham Vale whilst the 50 & 250 only follow it to Green Lane & Norbury respectively.
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Post by paulsw2 on Nov 14, 2013 15:15:40 GMT
Im not too surprised to see the 109 is 19th on that list and numbers have been rising since 2001. One occasion after doing a night shift at Battersea Garage, I decided to get on the 109 at Streatham st leonards at 6am sunday morning and the bus was extremely busy all the way to Croydon! Thankfully, there is no more need for me to travel regularly to and from Croydon going via Streatham or Brixton. And if I do have to make such journeys again then I will wait for the 50. Personally for me, there should be another route running along the same section as the 109 between Thornton Heath and Streatham Hill, or maybe increase the frequency of the 50. I did have a proposal a while back which involved extending the 64 to Streatham to help out the 109. I chose the 64 because it has a good frequency of every 8 minutes, the route between Park Hill & New Addington is relatively quiet and the route isn't too long already. I decided against going further than Streatham for two reasons: Congestion on Streatham High Road starts from the station where the roads narrows and that could lead to the southern end of the route suffering from it. Also, London Road already has congestion so adding a second congested section doesn't really help The 109 has other routes to fall back on between Streatham & Brixton, mainly the 118, 133, 159, 250 & 333 - after Streatham, the 118 turns off towards Streatham Vale whilst the 50 & 250 only follow it to Green Lane & Norbury respectively. Many years ago the 115 used to help the 109 between TH pond and St Leonards church and the 109 /115 were busy then.
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jay
Conductor
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Post by jay on Nov 15, 2013 16:23:40 GMT
The 109 runs every 10 minutes on a Sunday which is completely ridiculous. I can't see a reason why Sundays are treated differently to Saturdays on that route.
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Post by DT 11 on Nov 15, 2013 16:58:46 GMT
The 109 runs every 10 minutes on a Sunday which is completely ridiculous. I can't see a reason why Sundays are treated differently to Saturdays on that route. Buses are getting busier on pretty much all routes on Sunday IMO.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Nov 15, 2013 21:47:09 GMT
The 109 runs every 10 minutes on a Sunday which is completely ridiculous. I can't see a reason why Sundays are treated differently to Saturdays on that route. Buses are getting busier on pretty much all routes on Sunday IMO. Indeed and routes with 20 or 30 minute frequencies on Sundays are looking archaic during Sunday shopping hours. Riding a 197 or P13 on a Sunday is the worst day for both routes.
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Post by bengady3 on Nov 16, 2013 7:00:42 GMT
Buses are getting busier on pretty much all routes on Sunday IMO. Indeed and routes with 20 or 30 minute frequencies on Sundays are looking archaic during Sunday shopping hours. Riding a 197 or P13 on a Sunday is the worst day for both routes. To be honest I was shocked when I saw 197 with the 20 minute frequency because it gets packed
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Post by M1104 on Nov 16, 2013 13:01:41 GMT
The 109 runs every 10 minutes on a Sunday which is completely ridiculous. I can't see a reason why Sundays are treated differently to Saturdays on that route. Buses are getting busier on pretty much all routes on Sunday IMO. It all basically started from the late 80s with the introduction of Sunday retailing. ....and if I remember correctly, that was done so illegally at the initial stage. Many bus routes since then have still not reflected to the change in Sunday society. The 152 often struggles during Sunday retail hours with their packed single deckers. I imagine the 322 is very similar, a solution with that route at least being to use longer 10.2m dual doored buses, if spacing permits throughout the route (SW have done it a few times in isolated occurrences with their 10.2m LDPs). I don't know what the T33 is like on a Sunday, but perhaps on this day of the week all their long single deckers could be used on the 152 and any redundant double deckers (even if only two) from the 157 used on the 407. The 200 could also benefit with any available deckers for Sundays, especially in the Phipps Bridge and Haydons/Queens Road area.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Nov 16, 2013 13:25:09 GMT
From what I recall, the P13 didn't have a Sunday allocation until Travel London, now Abellio took over the tender. The 197 replaced the northern section of the 312 which had a 20 minute service when it was created in September 1990. That was an improvement on the 12B which was every 30 minutes in the days of pre-Sunday trading.
Even a busy trunk route in my area, Route 176 drops from 8 minutes on Mon-Sat to 12 on Sundays. That used to be every 15 minutes.
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