maximus23
Conductor
Posts: 127
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N21
Feb 21, 2015 18:02:54 GMT
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Post by maximus23 on Feb 21, 2015 18:02:54 GMT
Reroute N21 at eltham to go via route 321 to foots cray Tesco and withdraw 321 night service to provide a direct link between sidcup and Central london. Extend route N36 to Bexleyheath shopping centre via old route N21 and 132. Withdraw route 436 and extend day route 36 to Lewisham. Curtail route N36 at Paddington since the night route between marble arch and queens park is covered by the 6 and also not to make the route to long. N21 Foots Cray - Trafalgar Square N36 Queens Park - Bexleyheath 36 Lewisham - Queens Park 321 New Cross Gate - Foots Cray (no night service) 436 withdrawn Any chance you can provide reasons? Since the N89 also operates between Bexleyheath and Trafalgar Square I figured that providing a night service from that part of South london to more west london it would be easier to get from the East to the west. I think that the 36 is a brilliant cross london route an isn't exploited enough so I thought it would be a good route to use to cover for the old N21. Running the N21 to foots cray seems more logical IMO so that people living in that part of London have access to other places at night more simply and easily. I also thought that N36 would be to Long and time consuming to run all the way to queens park (as well as the 6 covering between Edgware road and queens park already) so I curtailed it at Paddington for more links to North london. IMO the 436 is pointless. Just extend the 36 15 mins to Lewisham and increase the bus frequency. It was just an idea in the first place so sorry if my reasons aren't as justified as you hoped.
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N21
Feb 21, 2015 20:23:52 GMT
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Post by vjaska on Feb 21, 2015 20:23:52 GMT
Any chance you can provide reasons? Since the N89 also operates between Bexleyheath and Trafalgar Square I figured that providing a night service from that part of South london to more west london it would be easier to get from the East to the west. I think that the 36 is a brilliant cross london route an isn't exploited enough so I thought it would be a good route to use to cover for the old N21. Running the N21 to foots cray seems more logical IMO so that people living in that part of London have access to other places at night more simply and easily. I also thought that N36 would be to Long and time consuming to run all the way to queens park (as well as the 6 covering between Edgware road and queens park already) so I curtailed it at Paddington for more links to North london. IMO the 436 is pointless. Just extend the 36 15 mins to Lewisham and increase the bus frequency. It was just an idea in the first place so sorry if my reasons aren't as justified as you hoped. Your reasons are fine, it just helps people by providing some in the first place. Anyway, no need to apologise lol.
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maximus23
Conductor
Posts: 127
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N21
Feb 21, 2015 23:40:36 GMT
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vjaska likes this
Post by maximus23 on Feb 21, 2015 23:40:36 GMT
Since the N89 also operates between Bexleyheath and Trafalgar Square I figured that providing a night service from that part of South london to more west london it would be easier to get from the East to the west. I think that the 36 is a brilliant cross london route an isn't exploited enough so I thought it would be a good route to use to cover for the old N21. Running the N21 to foots cray seems more logical IMO so that people living in that part of London have access to other places at night more simply and easily. I also thought that N36 would be to Long and time consuming to run all the way to queens park (as well as the 6 covering between Edgware road and queens park already) so I curtailed it at Paddington for more links to North london. IMO the 436 is pointless. Just extend the 36 15 mins to Lewisham and increase the bus frequency. It was just an idea in the first place so sorry if my reasons aren't as justified as you hoped. Your reasons are fine, it just helps people by providing some in the first place. Anyway, no need to apologise lol. Cool
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Post by rmz19 on Feb 28, 2015 15:14:08 GMT
Reroute N21 at eltham to go via route 321 to foots cray Tesco and withdraw 321 night service to provide a direct link between sidcup and Central london. Extend route N36 to Bexleyheath shopping centre via old route N21 and 132. Withdraw route 436 and extend day route 36 to Lewisham. Curtail route N36 at Paddington since the night route between marble arch and queens park is covered by the 6 and also not to make the route to long. N21 Foots Cray - Trafalgar Square N36 Queens Park - Bexleyheath 36 Lewisham - Queens Park 321 New Cross Gate - Foots Cray (no night service) 436 withdrawn The 436 was introduced because of the wise idea of cutting the 36 from Lewisham to New Cross Gate as it was quite long, so the 436 isn't pointless at all. Also it helps relieve overcrowding on the 36 and vice versa along the Vauxhall/Camberwell/Peckham Corridor. If anything the 36 could be cut back to Camberwell or Peckham as there are plenty of routes along that corridor. The 36 should be kept as 24 hours in its current routing as there is demand at night with the way it is so an N36 wouldn't be needed, note similar cross-city routes such as the 23, 24, 27, 88, 148, 390 are all 24 Hours (19, 21, 168, 328, 414 are exceptions with extended night services or lacking one).
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N21
Feb 28, 2015 15:18:34 GMT
Post by rmz19 on Feb 28, 2015 15:18:34 GMT
I would just extend the N321 all the way to Trafalgar Square giving a 15min headway on the busiest section, it is crazy that the Lewiham to Eltham section gets a better service than the Central London section But when you consider the options available between Lewisham and central London the eltham to Lewisham section is nothing. My proposals would be make the 21 24 hours between Newington Green and Lewisham, bring in an N321 Trafalgar Square to Foots Cray and introduce a 24 hour service to the 132 between North Greenwich and Bexleyheath. This definitely needs to happen!
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N21
Mar 1, 2015 21:16:05 GMT
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Post by sid on Mar 1, 2015 21:16:05 GMT
Any chance you can provide reasons? Since the N89 also operates between Bexleyheath and Trafalgar Square I figured that providing a night service from that part of South london to more west london it would be easier to get from the East to the west. I think that the 36 is a brilliant cross london route an isn't exploited enough so I thought it would be a good route to use to cover for the old N21. Running the N21 to foots cray seems more logical IMO so that people living in that part of London have access to other places at night more simply and easily. I also thought that N36 would be to Long and time consuming to run all the way to queens park (as well as the 6 covering between Edgware road and queens park already) so I curtailed it at Paddington for more links to North london. IMO the 436 is pointless. Just extend the 36 15 mins to Lewisham and increase the bus frequency. It was just an idea in the first place so sorry if my reasons aren't as justified as you hoped. The 36 could certainly go further south than NX at night although the Queens Park bit can't just be withdrawn without replacement.
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Post by DT 11 on Mar 1, 2015 21:42:30 GMT
Since the N89 also operates between Bexleyheath and Trafalgar Square I figured that providing a night service from that part of South london to more west london it would be easier to get from the East to the west. I think that the 36 is a brilliant cross london route an isn't exploited enough so I thought it would be a good route to use to cover for the old N21. Running the N21 to foots cray seems more logical IMO so that people living in that part of London have access to other places at night more simply and easily. I also thought that N36 would be to Long and time consuming to run all the way to queens park (as well as the 6 covering between Edgware road and queens park already) so I curtailed it at Paddington for more links to North london. IMO the 436 is pointless. Just extend the 36 15 mins to Lewisham and increase the bus frequency. It was just an idea in the first place so sorry if my reasons aren't as justified as you hoped. The 36 could certainly go further south than NX at night although the Queens Park bit can't just be withdrawn without replacement. The N136 already provides further links beyond New Cross.
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Post by eggmiester on Mar 1, 2015 23:25:57 GMT
The N136 replaced the N36 in its entirety from Oxford Circus to Grove Park. Some weekend N36 journeys also started from / terminated at Trafalgar Sq as the N36 ran from Victoria via Westminster, Trafalgar Sq, Piccadilly and Oxford Circus then back to the 36 route at Marble Arch (instead of via Park Lane and Hyde Park Corner) on Queens Park bound journeys.
Weekends the N36 ran every 15 mins Catford Garage to Trafalgar Sq then every 30 mins Grove Park to Queens Park. Weeknight sit ran a 30 min service Grove Park to Queens Park except the first two buses e/w which started from/ terminated at Trafalgar Sq.
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N21
Mar 2, 2015 11:44:03 GMT
Post by rmz19 on Mar 2, 2015 11:44:03 GMT
Since the N89 also operates between Bexleyheath and Trafalgar Square I figured that providing a night service from that part of South london to more west london it would be easier to get from the East to the west. I think that the 36 is a brilliant cross london route an isn't exploited enough so I thought it would be a good route to use to cover for the old N21. Running the N21 to foots cray seems more logical IMO so that people living in that part of London have access to other places at night more simply and easily. I also thought that N36 would be to Long and time consuming to run all the way to queens park (as well as the 6 covering between Edgware road and queens park already) so I curtailed it at Paddington for more links to North london. IMO the 436 is pointless. Just extend the 36 15 mins to Lewisham and increase the bus frequency. It was just an idea in the first place so sorry if my reasons aren't as justified as you hoped. The 36 could certainly go further south than NX at night although the Queens Park bit can't just be withdrawn without replacement. It should be kept as it is without another route replacing any section, the 36 is a long established route with its current routing. It's like saying cutting back the 88 to Oxford Circus, extending it more south and having another route replacing the northern section. I would cut the 36 to Camberwell as the A202 already has plenty of alternative routes e.g. 12, 171/N171, 136/N136, 177, 345, 436, P13 and N89.
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Post by DT 11 on Mar 2, 2015 11:59:09 GMT
The 36 could certainly go further south than NX at night although the Queens Park bit can't just be withdrawn without replacement. It should be kept as it is without another route replacing any section, the 36 is a long established route with its current routing. It's like saying cutting back the 88 to Oxford Circus, extending it more south and having another route replacing the northern section. I would cut the 36 to Camberwell as the A202 already has plenty of alternative routes e.g. 12, 171/N171, 136/N136, 177, 345, 436, P13 and N89. The 136 does not go to Camberwell Green. Cutting the 36 to Camberwell would involve finding enough stand space which there probably isn't, and will also not help the 436 very much coming Southbound & Northbound, as has been mentioned before the 36/436 arrangement has been happening for years, 2003 the 436 gained an individual route number. The 436 is going to need as much assistance from the 36 because of the delays in Lewisham.
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N21
Mar 2, 2015 13:34:21 GMT
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Post by sid on Mar 2, 2015 13:34:21 GMT
The 36 could certainly go further south than NX at night although the Queens Park bit can't just be withdrawn without replacement. It should be kept as it is without another route replacing any section, the 36 is a long established route with its current routing. It's like saying cutting back the 88 to Oxford Circus, extending it more south and having another route replacing the northern section. I would cut the 36 to Camberwell as the A202 already has plenty of alternative routes e.g. 12, 171/N171, 136/N136, 177, 345, 436, P13 and N89. I didn't suggest cutting the northern section, the 36 used to go to Hither Green or Grove Park. The daytime 36 is probably ok as it is now, it could possibly be cut back to Peckham but Camberwell would be a cut too far. The night service could certainly be extended at least to Lewisham, the N136 is only half hourly.
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Post by DT 11 on Mar 2, 2015 14:08:08 GMT
It should be kept as it is without another route replacing any section, the 36 is a long established route with its current routing. It's like saying cutting back the 88 to Oxford Circus, extending it more south and having another route replacing the northern section. I would cut the 36 to Camberwell as the A202 already has plenty of alternative routes e.g. 12, 171/N171, 136/N136, 177, 345, 436, P13 and N89. I didn't suggest cutting the northern section, the 36 used to go to Hither Green or Grove Park. The daytime 36 is probably ok as it is now, it could possibly be cut back to Peckham but Camberwell would be a cut too far. The night service could certainly be extended at least to Lewisham, the N136 is only half hourly. Why would the 36 need to be cut to Peckham? It is easier to stand them in NX. Most South London Night Services are Half Hourly during the week. The N21, N89 also goes to Lewisham... The N136 is not very busy towards Chislehurst Nightly, but it is busier towards Oxford Circus, but not exactly so busy that the route needs to run more often. When the night tube starts operating many South London Night Routes will probably need frequency increases.
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N21
Mar 2, 2015 15:36:01 GMT
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Post by sid on Mar 2, 2015 15:36:01 GMT
I didn't suggest cutting the northern section, the 36 used to go to Hither Green or Grove Park. The daytime 36 is probably ok as it is now, it could possibly be cut back to Peckham but Camberwell would be a cut too far. The night service could certainly be extended at least to Lewisham, the N136 is only half hourly. Why would the 36 need to be cut to Peckham? It is easier to stand them in NX. Most South London Night Services are Half Hourly during the week. The N21, N89 also goes to Lewisham... The N136 is not very busy towards Chislehurst Nightly, but it is busier towards Oxford Circus, but not exactly so busy that the route needs to run more often. When the night tube starts operating many South London Night Routes will probably need frequency increases. Well 'rmz19' suggested cutting the 36 back to Camberwell, I was just suggesting Peckham maybe? More buses on a Fri/Sat night will be needed at the few tube stations that there are in SE London and also more buses south from New Cross Gate on a Fri/Sat night to connect with London Overground
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N21
Mar 2, 2015 16:51:26 GMT
DT 11 likes this
Post by rmz19 on Mar 2, 2015 16:51:26 GMT
It should be kept as it is without another route replacing any section, the 36 is a long established route with its current routing. It's like saying cutting back the 88 to Oxford Circus, extending it more south and having another route replacing the northern section. I would cut the 36 to Camberwell as the A202 already has plenty of alternative routes e.g. 12, 171/N171, 136/N136, 177, 345, 436, P13 and N89. The 136 does not go to Camberwell Green. Cutting the 36 to Camberwell would involve finding enough stand space which there probably isn't, and will also not help the 436 very much coming Southbound & Northbound, as has been mentioned before the 36/436 arrangement has been happening for years, 2003 the 436 gained an individual route number. The 436 is going to need as much assistance from the 36 because of the delays in Lewisham. Indeed it doesn't, I mentioned all the routes along the A202 between Camberwell and New Cross Gate in general. The reason why I suggested this is just as a worst case scenario, during peaks journeys on the 36 can run beyond 90 mins due to congestion. As a result, curtailments sometimes occur which can be annoying. It's ok as it is, just a thought that if the 36's reliability is a growing concern then cutting it back to Camberwell (given stand space is found) or Peckham would be IMO a sensible move, this shouldn't be an issue for the 436 if it's given a slight frequency increase as well as assistance by current alternative routes.
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Post by eggmiester on Apr 20, 2015 21:16:05 GMT
The 36's reliability isn't really a growing concern to be honest, it's probably the most reliable route running out of NX at the moment. The only real issue with the 36 is when you get excessive delays on the route, like through the oval this morning with up the 50 min delays. But us regular 36 controllers do make use of the curtailments and light running options we have (like run every other but light to Vauxhall via old Kent road and Kennington lane, which was used this morning) so that despite the delays, a decent level of service is maintained throughout the route.
The 436 is struggling a bit due to the works at Lewisham, so much so that a spare bus is employed on the route mostly working between NX and Hyde Park Corner.
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