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Post by greenboy on Aug 17, 2023 20:05:27 GMT
Very much getting the crayons out here…but given what West Midlands are now using batteries on their tram extensions and proposals such as the Coventry VLR, could trams to Bromley finally become a reality given overhead wires wouldn’t be necessary providing batteries were added? Could such an extension be facilitated given new trams are being sourced to replace the older 2000 examples, so batteries could be added to them? I suppose my only concern would be if the trams were low enough to fit under the Shortlands low bridge? I recall an article being posted here about how the Grove Park to Bromley line isn’t particularly useful for residents, well given this seems to be a pretty similar sounding story to some of the Tramlink branches such as Elmers End to Addiscombe…could there be a full extension from Beckenham Junction to Grove Park, where trams are battery operated to Bromley North and then overhead wire operated to Grove Park? I should imagine any inconvenience in the way of construction would be on the branch would be negligible given the alternatives available such as the 261 bus. A Tramlink extension probably would be the best option for the Bromley North branch with an additional station at New Street Hill, I think the biggest obstacle would be the hilly terrain between Shortlands and Bromley.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 17, 2023 22:44:50 GMT
Very much getting the crayons out here…but given what West Midlands are now using batteries on their tram extensions and proposals such as the Coventry VLR, could trams to Bromley finally become a reality given overhead wires wouldn’t be necessary providing batteries were added? Could such an extension be facilitated given new trams are being sourced to replace the older 2000 examples, so batteries could be added to them? I suppose my only concern would be if the trams were low enough to fit under the Shortlands low bridge? I recall an article being posted here about how the Grove Park to Bromley line isn’t particularly useful for residents, well given this seems to be a pretty similar sounding story to some of the Tramlink branches such as Elmers End to Addiscombe…could there be a full extension from Beckenham Junction to Grove Park, where trams are battery operated to Bromley North and then overhead wire operated to Grove Park? I should imagine any inconvenience in the way of construction would be on the branch would be negligible given the alternatives available such as the 261 bus. A Tramlink extension probably would be the best option for the Bromley North branch with an additional station at New Street Hill, I think the biggest obstacle would be the hilly terrain between Shortlands and Bromley. There are hilly terrains in Sheffield and Nottingham but yet the trams manage fine there so I shouldn’t imagine that would be an issue. I think the concern would be if the trams actually fit underneath the low bridge, and if this proposal were to go ahead, whether or not the road would need to be lowered in order to facilitate trams being used.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 18, 2023 2:33:47 GMT
A Tramlink extension probably would be the best option for the Bromley North branch with an additional station at New Street Hill, I think the biggest obstacle would be the hilly terrain between Shortlands and Bromley. There are hilly terrains in Sheffield and Nottingham but yet the trams manage fine there so I shouldn’t imagine that would be an issue. I think the concern would be if the trams actually fit underneath the low bridge, and if this proposal were to go ahead, whether or not the road would need to be lowered in order to facilitate trams being used. I'd be very surprised if it ran along the road to Bromley - IMO, the only way you could feasibly link it into Bromley is via the Chatham Mainline and even then, you have the issue of how you get it off from there onto the road. Croydon was ideal for trams because there were two railway lines they could use and the roads it runs along in Croydon were either wide and able to accommodate both trams and other vehicles without too much issue or were quiet town centre streets that see little or no traffic
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Post by greenboy on Aug 18, 2023 6:49:20 GMT
A Tramlink extension probably would be the best option for the Bromley North branch with an additional station at New Street Hill, I think the biggest obstacle would be the hilly terrain between Shortlands and Bromley. There are hilly terrains in Sheffield and Nottingham but yet the trams manage fine there so I shouldn’t imagine that would be an issue. I think the concern would be if the trams actually fit underneath the low bridge, and if this proposal were to go ahead, whether or not the road would need to be lowered in order to facilitate trams being used. An on street extension from Beckenham Junction to Shortlands via Albermarle Road should be relatively simple but even if they can negotiate the bridge at Shortlands I don't think Beckenham Lane would be suitable for trams. Could possibly squeeze in a single reversible line alongside the NR lines between Shortlands and Bromley South?
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 18, 2023 9:36:35 GMT
There are hilly terrains in Sheffield and Nottingham but yet the trams manage fine there so I shouldn’t imagine that would be an issue. I think the concern would be if the trams actually fit underneath the low bridge, and if this proposal were to go ahead, whether or not the road would need to be lowered in order to facilitate trams being used. An on street extension from Beckenham Junction to Shortlands via Albermarle Road should be relatively simple but even if they can negotiate the bridge at Shortlands I don't think Beckenham Lane would be suitable for trams. Could possibly squeeze in a single reversible line alongside the NR lines between Shortlands and Bromley South? The other option could be the tram is sent down Valley Road and Queen Anne Avenue onto Westmoreland Road, before the tram could snake through the town centre and head up towards Bromley North. Not only could that negate the potential bridge problem and the constant curves on Beckenham Lane, but it would provide links to the town centre properly, as well as Bromley South.
Personally I think its a shame that Bromley wasn't on the drawing board from day one due to the excellent cross-South London links it would bring. However, that's not to say such a proposition wouldn't be possible nowadays, especially if battery operation takes off meaning it could be significantly cheaper to extend.
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Post by SILENCED on Aug 18, 2023 10:48:15 GMT
There are hilly terrains in Sheffield and Nottingham but yet the trams manage fine there so I shouldn’t imagine that would be an issue. I think the concern would be if the trams actually fit underneath the low bridge, and if this proposal were to go ahead, whether or not the road would need to be lowered in order to facilitate trams being used. I'd be very surprised if it ran along the road to Bromley - IMO, the only way you could feasibly link it into Bromley is via the Chatham Mainline and even then, you have the issue of how you get it off from there onto the road. Croydon was ideal for trams because there were two railway lines they could use and the roads it runs along in Croydon were either wide and able to accommodate both trams and other vehicles without too much issue or were quiet town centre streets that see little or no traffic Some of the roads where quite busy, but the traffic was diverted away from them as part of Tramlink changes. It would be down to Bromley as to how they would want to change traffic flows
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Post by Buses678 on Aug 22, 2023 20:51:48 GMT
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Post by SouthLondoner468 on Aug 22, 2023 21:45:26 GMT
I do sometimes get annoyed with the priority trams have, especially at that turning from Station Road onto Wellesley Road. If you are on a 157, 289, 450, SL6 or are turning right onto Station Road from Wellesley Road, you can be held up for quite a while purely because trams are leaving West Croydon every 30 seconds 😂, especially in the morning.
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Post by greenboy on Dec 24, 2023 12:38:55 GMT
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Post by tooting395 on Dec 28, 2023 16:49:30 GMT
Much needed. Trams have befome rather unreliable since the summer with often large and irregular gaps between services at least on the New Addington branch anyway.
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Post by wirewiper on Jan 3, 2024 13:54:56 GMT
Much needed. Trams have befome rather unreliable since the summer with often large and irregular gaps between services at least on the New Addington branch anyway. The Bombardier CR4000 trams were always due for replacement in 2028. To achieve that, procurement activity needs to start around now so the the order can be placed, the trams manufactured and trial running and staff training take place. Depending on how the construction and maintenance contracts are procured, there may also need to be major changes to Therapia Lane Depot, or possibly a new Depot or stabling sidings. It looks like the Stadler Variobahns will continue in service.Whilst there might be benefits in having a standardised fleet, even the oldest of the Variobahns will still only be halfway through their planned operational life in 2028 and it would be difficult to find a second-hand market for them.
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Post by snowman on Jan 3, 2024 18:39:51 GMT
The new Tram tender 1 buyer Tramtrack Croydon London Description The contracts (to be awarded to one supplier) are: (a) a manufacture and supply agreement for a base order of 24 new trams (with options to order up to 16 further option trams), together with associated spares and equipment; and (b) a technical support and spares supply agreement for the provision of technical support and spares in respect of the trams supplied under the manufacturer and supply agreement, with a term of 30 years. Total Quantity or Scope The type CR4000 trams on the Croydon Trams network are approaching the end of their design life and Transport for London (TfL) intends to replace them with a new fleet pursuant to this procurement. TfL intends to procure 24 new trams and associated technical support and spares supply to enable TfL to maintain the new fleet at its Therapia Lane Depot for the duration of its 30 year design life. The solution will support improved safety features on the tram network, comply with RVAR 2010 legislation, improve crashworthiness of vehicles, improve passenger and driver experience, maintain and improve reliability of the fleet, contribute to TfL's 'Vision Zero' and reduce the ongoing economic and carbon cost of tram services. The scope of the manufacture and supply agreement will include: (a) the design, assurance, manufacture, testing, commissioning and entry into service of 24 new base order trams meeting the requirements of the tram technical requirements specified by the authority; and (b) the option for the authority to order up to 12 option trams with no break in production, or between 8 to 16 option trams with a break in production; (c) the provision of associated spares and equipment for use on or in connection with the new fleet; (d) the provision of certain ancillary services in connection with the introduction of the new fleet; and (e) the disposal of certain retiring existing units from the Croydon trams fleet. The scope of the technical support and spares supply agreement will include: (f) the provision of specified technical support services in respect of the new fleet as required by the authority over the new fleet's 30 year design life; and (g) the provision of spare parts for the new fleet as required by the authority in accordance with its terms. The feasibility of onboard energy storage and Automatic Infrastructure Monitoring systems may be explored under this contract. The successful bidder will be remunerated on the achievement of specified payment milestones under the manufacture and supply agreement, together with fees for provision of services under the technical support and spares supply agreement. TfL are not seeking financing offers as part of this procurement but may separately procure financing for the new fleet, with the timing and structure of any such financing to be determined. Renewal Options The manufacture and supply agreement will permit the authority to order up to 12 option trams with no break in production, and/or between 8 to 16 option trams with a break in production. The technical support and spares supply agreement will apply in respect of the entire new fleet (including any option trams ordered pursuant to such options). Details of the provisional timetable for recourse to such options and their pricing are set out more particularly in the procurement documents. bidstats.uk/tenders/2024/W01/813957395
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 3, 2024 19:57:03 GMT
The new Tram tender 1 buyer Tramtrack Croydon London Description The contracts (to be awarded to one supplier) are: (a) a manufacture and supply agreement for a base order of 24 new trams (with options to order up to 16 further option trams), together with associated spares and equipment; and (b) a technical support and spares supply agreement for the provision of technical support and spares in respect of the trams supplied under the manufacturer and supply agreement, with a term of 30 years. Total Quantity or Scope The type CR4000 trams on the Croydon Trams network are approaching the end of their design life and Transport for London (TfL) intends to replace them with a new fleet pursuant to this procurement. TfL intends to procure 24 new trams and associated technical support and spares supply to enable TfL to maintain the new fleet at its Therapia Lane Depot for the duration of its 30 year design life. The solution will support improved safety features on the tram network, comply with RVAR 2010 legislation, improve crashworthiness of vehicles, improve passenger and driver experience, maintain and improve reliability of the fleet, contribute to TfL's 'Vision Zero' and reduce the ongoing economic and carbon cost of tram services. The scope of the manufacture and supply agreement will include: (a) the design, assurance, manufacture, testing, commissioning and entry into service of 24 new base order trams meeting the requirements of the tram technical requirements specified by the authority; and (b) the option for the authority to order up to 12 option trams with no break in production, or between 8 to 16 option trams with a break in production; (c) the provision of associated spares and equipment for use on or in connection with the new fleet; (d) the provision of certain ancillary services in connection with the introduction of the new fleet; and (e) the disposal of certain retiring existing units from the Croydon trams fleet. The scope of the technical support and spares supply agreement will include: (f) the provision of specified technical support services in respect of the new fleet as required by the authority over the new fleet's 30 year design life; and (g) the provision of spare parts for the new fleet as required by the authority in accordance with its terms. The feasibility of onboard energy storage and Automatic Infrastructure Monitoring systems may be explored under this contract. The successful bidder will be remunerated on the achievement of specified payment milestones under the manufacture and supply agreement, together with fees for provision of services under the technical support and spares supply agreement. TfL are not seeking financing offers as part of this procurement but may separately procure financing for the new fleet, with the timing and structure of any such financing to be determined. Renewal Options The manufacture and supply agreement will permit the authority to order up to 12 option trams with no break in production, and/or between 8 to 16 option trams with a break in production. The technical support and spares supply agreement will apply in respect of the entire new fleet (including any option trams ordered pursuant to such options). Details of the provisional timetable for recourse to such options and their pricing are set out more particularly in the procurement documents. bidstats.uk/tenders/2024/W01/813957395Thanks for posting. So the 24 trams will replace the 23 original remaining trams plus the 1 written off returning the fleet back to full strength of 36 (24 new plus the 12 Stadlers) Can't see there being a need for either of the options, but hope to be proved wrong.
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Post by mkay315 on Jan 3, 2024 21:34:01 GMT
The new Tram tender 1 buyer Tramtrack Croydon London Description The contracts (to be awarded to one supplier) are: (a) a manufacture and supply agreement for a base order of 24 new trams (with options to order up to 16 further option trams), together with associated spares and equipment; and (b) a technical support and spares supply agreement for the provision of technical support and spares in respect of the trams supplied under the manufacturer and supply agreement, with a term of 30 years. Total Quantity or Scope The type CR4000 trams on the Croydon Trams network are approaching the end of their design life and Transport for London (TfL) intends to replace them with a new fleet pursuant to this procurement. TfL intends to procure 24 new trams and associated technical support and spares supply to enable TfL to maintain the new fleet at its Therapia Lane Depot for the duration of its 30 year design life. The solution will support improved safety features on the tram network, comply with RVAR 2010 legislation, improve crashworthiness of vehicles, improve passenger and driver experience, maintain and improve reliability of the fleet, contribute to TfL's 'Vision Zero' and reduce the ongoing economic and carbon cost of tram services. The scope of the manufacture and supply agreement will include: (a) the design, assurance, manufacture, testing, commissioning and entry into service of 24 new base order trams meeting the requirements of the tram technical requirements specified by the authority; and (b) the option for the authority to order up to 12 option trams with no break in production, or between 8 to 16 option trams with a break in production; (c) the provision of associated spares and equipment for use on or in connection with the new fleet; (d) the provision of certain ancillary services in connection with the introduction of the new fleet; and (e) the disposal of certain retiring existing units from the Croydon trams fleet. The scope of the technical support and spares supply agreement will include: (f) the provision of specified technical support services in respect of the new fleet as required by the authority over the new fleet's 30 year design life; and (g) the provision of spare parts for the new fleet as required by the authority in accordance with its terms. The feasibility of onboard energy storage and Automatic Infrastructure Monitoring systems may be explored under this contract. The successful bidder will be remunerated on the achievement of specified payment milestones under the manufacture and supply agreement, together with fees for provision of services under the technical support and spares supply agreement. TfL are not seeking financing offers as part of this procurement but may separately procure financing for the new fleet, with the timing and structure of any such financing to be determined. Renewal Options The manufacture and supply agreement will permit the authority to order up to 12 option trams with no break in production, and/or between 8 to 16 option trams with a break in production. The technical support and spares supply agreement will apply in respect of the entire new fleet (including any option trams ordered pursuant to such options). Details of the provisional timetable for recourse to such options and their pricing are set out more particularly in the procurement documents. bidstats.uk/tenders/2024/W01/813957395Thanks for posting. So the 24 trams will replace the 23 original remaining trams plus the 1 written off returning the fleet back to full strength of 36 (24 new plus the 12 Stadlers) Can't see there being a need for either of the options, but hope to be proved wrong. If there is more funding provided then perhaps they could revisit the expansion again.
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Post by greenboy on Feb 20, 2024 15:03:45 GMT
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