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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jan 14, 2015 1:44:21 GMT
The N2 only has one bus out with VLA2 doing the honours The N3 has two buses out - 2458 & 2479 Only one N68 out on it's lonesome which is WHV2 Lots of 159's heading towards Streatham with just two heading to Marble Arch The 250's night service looks normal - 6 buses currently out Only two 345's out on the night service - E107 & E185 Only another note, the N35, 37, N109, N133 & N137 don't seem to be working on LVF No N63's tonight, despite the 363 operating all day, however the 176 is running a normal night service!
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Post by vjaska on Jan 14, 2015 3:09:42 GMT
The N2 only has one bus out with VLA2 doing the honours The N3 has two buses out - 2458 & 2479 Only one N68 out on it's lonesome which is WHV2 Lots of 159's heading towards Streatham with just two heading to Marble Arch The 250's night service looks normal - 6 buses currently out Only two 345's out on the night service - E107 & E185 Only another note, the N35, 37, N109, N133 & N137 don't seem to be working on LVF There is nothing wrong with LVF, those routes you mention are not running at the moment. If there is nothing running/nothing has run on the route since 0000 (midnight) then you will get the message "Your input does not match any vehicle or command in our database/Your input appears to be part of a pre 2001 registration......etc" Hope that helps :-) Thought it was me Thanks for letting me know
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Post by driveumad on Jan 14, 2015 6:40:11 GMT
TC was in complete shutdown today with no buses running any routes. However, My brother passed TC when he was on 1 of the 4 407's in service (he was on 8777) and he told me he saw a ton of drivers outside TC holding picket signs saying "We want more pay" etc and some drivers were trying to stop his bus from moving shouting at his driver saying things like "Join our strike!!" and "Give up" and "Stop Driving" however, the bus managed to continue. I think this is very bad, particularly from TC drivers because you can't stop another company's bus just because you want them to join your strike IMO. That kind of behaviour you witnessed is an absolute disgrace - people have the right to strike but at the same time, others have to the right to continue working without being heckled and abused. I saw people on Facebook who are involved in the bus industry condemning bus drivers who did work - they should be ashamed of themselves. No one has the right to judge whether the person strikes or continues to work regardless of your opinion or what side you fall on. I agree but I don't agree if the driver is a unite member and they still work when unite is striking, there was a couple at my garage.
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Post by ServerKing on Jan 14, 2015 7:43:28 GMT
Well the Olympic bonus strike did get a result which was an improvement. You say there are people wiling to work £9.50 an hour, so then why are now some of the bus companies now getting many vacancies after some years of having a 'waiting list' due to the recession. Now that the recession is over, many are starting to leave to get other jobs. The Olympic bonus dispute worked solely because the reputational damage to TfL and the Mayor if the buses didn't work would be so severe and known across the world. In that case the power rested with the unions / drivers and not TfL and the operators. Something had to be done and money was found plus it was a one off event. Your reference to bus cos having vacancies is pertinent and might be a factor that causes some companies to take pause. However that would just mean a company level resolution not a London wide one. The operators aren't daft and won't want to be at risk of losing payment from TfL because performance has gone down the pan. There is also the risk around contract extensions - get shoddy performance during the assessment period and you might lose two extra years income. For all that the unions complain about the tendering system it is a double edged sword. It's perfectly possible for operators to misjudge things and for there to be financial consequences. This is something that the rail unions worked out very quickly for the TOCs - it's very easy to hit the TOC's bottom line which is why train drivers have done relatively well even if old practices and agreements have been "bought out" over the years. London's buses are not quite in the same position but widespread recruitment and staff turnover problems could translate into a nightmare for the bus companies. I think bus driving is quite a demanding job with a lot of responsibility which should be reflected in the pay, £9.30 is the same you could get doing temporary work as a filing clerk, or even cleaning work... so if wages were higher (and not locked into this 'work-for-us-for-five-years-and-we-might-increase-your-pay' thing) staff retention wouldn't be such an issue. Drivers shouldn't work more than 40 hours per week. But that's just my view. Perhaps reducing the number of operators (most of the big groups have too many sub-brands, but that's done to get around the current Tendering rules and get more work), so I think the whole thing needs to be looked at... as this issue hasn't been resolved, no doubt there will be another strike in the near future
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Post by sw11simon on Jan 14, 2015 7:59:19 GMT
The Olympic bonus dispute worked solely because the reputational damage to TfL and the Mayor if the buses didn't work would be so severe and known across the world. In that case the power rested with the unions / drivers and not TfL and the operators. Something had to be done and money was found plus it was a one off event. Your reference to bus cos having vacancies is pertinent and might be a factor that causes some companies to take pause. However that would just mean a company level resolution not a London wide one. The operators aren't daft and won't want to be at risk of losing payment from TfL because performance has gone down the pan. There is also the risk around contract extensions - get shoddy performance during the assessment period and you might lose two extra years income. For all that the unions complain about the tendering system it is a double edged sword. It's perfectly possible for operators to misjudge things and for there to be financial consequences. This is something that the rail unions worked out very quickly for the TOCs - it's very easy to hit the TOC's bottom line which is why train drivers have done relatively well even if old practices and agreements have been "bought out" over the years. London's buses are not quite in the same position but widespread recruitment and staff turnover problems could translate into a nightmare for the bus companies. I think bus driving is quite a demanding job with a lot of responsibility which should be reflected in the pay, £9.30 is the same you could get doing temporary work as a filing clerk, or even cleaning work... so if wages were higher (and not locked into this 'work-for-us-for-five-years-and-we-might-increase-your-pay' thing) staff retention wouldn't be such an issue. Drivers shouldn't work more than 40 hours per week. But that's just my view. Perhaps reducing the number of operators (most of the big groups have too many sub-brands, but that's done to get around the current Tendering rules and get more work), so I think the whole thing needs to be looked at... as this issue hasn't been resolved, no doubt there will be another strike in the near future The big groups having sub-brands is about protecting operating licences more than anything else - for instance London Central got in a bit of trouble about maintenance a few years ago when a wheel came off a 484. Only London Central got taken to an inquiry and only London Central had a penalty on its operating licence of a reduction in number of licensed buses. Other Go-Ahead subsidiaries were unaffected. It really has nothing to do with pay or getting more work - each subsidiary has multiple pay rates, a lot of them introduced in recent years whilst Unite has been the recognised union. And TfL knows who owns each company... all Go-Ahead tenders are issued from the same office. I was working for Go-Ahead when the wage structure giving a five year wait for full rate was introduced. Unite took no action, no ballot or anything at that time. Staff retention is not a major issue as long as staff can be replaced. It is nothing like is was when I started working for London General in 1996 when turnover was about 40%. Staff retention becomes a problem when the companies cannot replace the staff leaving, and then wages would have to go up to make the job more attractive.
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Post by sw11simon on Jan 14, 2015 8:14:57 GMT
All i know is 10/15 years ago bus and tube drivers were on similar wages, 10 years forward and new bus drivers earn half the wages tube drivers earn and half the holidays they get not just that, bus driving is alot harder busier more stressful then before, before we did not have CCTV i bus mystery travellers bullying from bosses, and now you have double the number of passengers and alot more cyclist the list goes on, Sorry Ryan... you don't know that. I started driving buses in 1996 and I was on worse T&C's, worse pay and worse holidays than tube drivers. What were you doing then - you seem to claim a good knowledge of the period. You need to go back to pre-1994 for that statement to be vaguely true, when the union now in dispute represented bus drivers at privatisation and the introduction of the current system. Before CCTV any complaint received led to a possible question mark over a driver. CCTV has cleared many drivers of accusations made over the years and with the technology available, would it really be acceptable for it not to be there? I was driving full buses often in 1996, on worse schedules in 20 year old buses. An individual bus driver is not dealing with double the passengers. There are many more bus drivers now compared to then. Bullying and harassment laws are far more enforced these days than before, your union should be able to represent you if you are being bullied by a manager or a controller. There are definitely more cyclists now, I'll give you that. Pay rates for bus drivers are poor I agree, but the statements you make seem to be based on hearsay from canteen talk, not fact.
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Post by twobellstogo on Jan 14, 2015 8:45:04 GMT
The 89 had 2/3 buses out this morning, then no service. The 486 had a fairly normal service throughout the day, which I was quite happy about. My 422 turned up yesterday evening, the 132 worked more or less normally too. N89 had a full turnout as well. I have a feeling there are a lot of BX staff who are members of unions other than Unite, judging by the turnout of buses.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2015 8:56:52 GMT
All i know is 10/15 years ago bus and tube drivers were on similar wages, 10 years forward and new bus drivers earn half the wages tube drivers earn and half the holidays they get not just that, bus driving is alot harder busier more stressful then before, before we did not have CCTV i bus mystery travellers bullying from bosses, and now you have double the number of passengers and alot more cyclist the list goes on, Sorry Ryan... you don't know that. I started driving buses in 1996 and I was on worse T&C's, worse pay and worse holidays than tube drivers. What were you doing then - you seem to claim a good knowledge of the period. You need to go back to pre-1994 for that statement to be vaguely true, when the union now in dispute represented bus drivers at privatisation and the introduction of the current system. Before CCTV any complaint received led to a possible question mark over a driver. CCTV has cleared many drivers of accusations made over the years and with the technology available, would it really be acceptable for it not to be there? I was driving full buses often in 1996, on worse schedules in 20 year old buses. An individual bus driver is not dealing with double the passengers. There are many more bus drivers now compared to then. Bullying and harassment laws are far more enforced these days than before, your union should be able to represent you if you are being bullied by a manager or a controller. There are definitely more cyclists now, I'll give you that. Pay rates for bus drivers are poor I agree, but the statements you make seem to be based on hearsay from canteen talk, not fact. will i started driving buses in 2000 with stagecoach and left them in 2010 my basic pay was £500 minimum and 6 weeks holiday a year plus Lou days and around £400 Christmas bonus as well as the manager was very good and friendly and if you had an accident you will get told by manager to be careful next time and that was it unless off course the accident was serious same with complaints if it was not serious it would have gone to the bin, now my basic is £350 and 20 days holiday with no Christmas bonus and the managers are terrible, sand cctv are not good for example if you get complain or have an they will check the whole days cctv looking for other things u done so don't tell me about my statement not being true, i don't know who u worked for but it looks bad,
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2015 9:03:35 GMT
Sorry Ryan... you don't know that. I started driving buses in 1996 and I was on worse T&C's, worse pay and worse holidays than tube drivers. What were you doing then - you seem to claim a good knowledge of the period. You need to go back to pre-1994 for that statement to be vaguely true, when the union now in dispute represented bus drivers at privatisation and the introduction of the current system. Before CCTV any complaint received led to a possible question mark over a driver. CCTV has cleared many drivers of accusations made over the years and with the technology available, would it really be acceptable for it not to be there? I was driving full buses often in 1996, on worse schedules in 20 year old buses. An individual bus driver is not dealing with double the passengers. There are many more bus drivers now compared to then. Bullying and harassment laws are far more enforced these days than before, your union should be able to represent you if you are being bullied by a manager or a controller. There are definitely more cyclists now, I'll give you that. Pay rates for bus drivers are poor I agree, but the statements you make seem to be based on hearsay from canteen talk, not fact. will i started driving buses in 2000 with stagecoach and left them in 2010 my basic pay was £500 minimum and 6 weeks holiday a year plus Lou days and around £400 Christmas bonus as well as the manager was very good and friendly and if you had an accident you will get told by manager to be careful next time and that was it unless off course the accident was serious same with complaints if it was not serious it would have gone to the bin, now my basic is £350 and 20 days holiday with no Christmas bonus and the managers are terrible, cctv are not good for example if you get complain or have an accident they will check the whole days cctv looking for other things u done that day and you get disciplined for very minor incidens so don't tell me about my statement not being true, i don't know who u worked for but it didn't look good.
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Post by sw11simon on Jan 14, 2015 9:12:14 GMT
Sorry Ryan... you don't know that. I started driving buses in 1996 and I was on worse T&C's, worse pay and worse holidays than tube drivers. What were you doing then - you seem to claim a good knowledge of the period. You need to go back to pre-1994 for that statement to be vaguely true, when the union now in dispute represented bus drivers at privatisation and the introduction of the current system. Before CCTV any complaint received led to a possible question mark over a driver. CCTV has cleared many drivers of accusations made over the years and with the technology available, would it really be acceptable for it not to be there? I was driving full buses often in 1996, on worse schedules in 20 year old buses. An individual bus driver is not dealing with double the passengers. There are many more bus drivers now compared to then. Bullying and harassment laws are far more enforced these days than before, your union should be able to represent you if you are being bullied by a manager or a controller. There are definitely more cyclists now, I'll give you that. Pay rates for bus drivers are poor I agree, but the statements you make seem to be based on hearsay from canteen talk, not fact. will i started driving buses in 2000 with stagecoach and left them in 2010 my basic pay was £500 minimum and 6 weeks holiday a year plus Lou days and around £400 Christmas bonus as well as the manager was very good and friendly and if you had an accident you will get told by manager to be careful next time and that was it unless off course the accident was serious same with complaints if it was not serious it would have gone to the bin, now my basic is £350 and 20 days holiday with no Christmas bonus and the managers are terrible, sand cctv are not good for example if you get complain or have an they will check the whole days cctv looking for other things u done so don't tell me about my statement not being true, i don't know who u worked for but it looks bad, 28 days holiday is the minimum legal entitlement so if you have 20 speak to your union! If you get a complaint and managers look through a whole days CCTV and pull you on something unrelated, speak to your union. That is not correct practice, although I find it hard to believe a manager would spend the time doing what you said. I can understand you being negative, having walked out on a good contract in 2010 and having to re-start on a bad one. I worked for London General/Go-Ahead for 18 years and saw the union sit back and do nothing when the company eroded terms and conditions for competitive reasons (as Stagecoach, I believe, has also subsequently done.)
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Post by sid on Jan 14, 2015 10:26:00 GMT
will i started driving buses in 2000 with stagecoach and left them in 2010 my basic pay was £500 minimum and 6 weeks holiday a year plus Lou days and around £400 Christmas bonus as well as the manager was very good and friendly and if you had an accident you will get told by manager to be careful next time and that was it unless off course the accident was serious same with complaints if it was not serious it would have gone to the bin, now my basic is £350 and 20 days holiday with no Christmas bonus and the managers are terrible, sand cctv are not good for example if you get complain or have an they will check the whole days cctv looking for other things u done so don't tell me about my statement not being true, i don't know who u worked for but it looks bad, 28 days holiday is the minimum legal entitlement so if you have 20 speak to your union! If you get a complaint and managers look through a whole days CCTV and pull you on something unrelated, speak to your union. That is not correct practice, although I find it hard to believe a manager would spend the time doing what you said. I can understand you being negative, having walked out on a good contract in 2010 and having to re-start on a bad one. I worked for London General/Go-Ahead for 18 years and saw the union sit back and do nothing when the company eroded terms and conditions for competitive reasons (as Stagecoach, I believe, has also subsequently done.) Managers are themselves often under pressure and certainly wouldn't have time to look through hours of CCTV
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Post by stubag on Jan 14, 2015 11:40:21 GMT
28 days holiday is the minimum legal entitlement so if you have 20 speak to your union! If you get a complaint and managers look through a whole days CCTV and pull you on something unrelated, speak to your union. That is not correct practice, although I find it hard to believe a manager would spend the time doing what you said. I can understand you being negative, having walked out on a good contract in 2010 and having to re-start on a bad one. I worked for London General/Go-Ahead for 18 years and saw the union sit back and do nothing when the company eroded terms and conditions for competitive reasons (as Stagecoach, I believe, has also subsequently done.) Managers are themselves often under pressure and certainly wouldn't have time to look through hours of CCTV Data protection does not allow them to watch you all day, they are only allowed to view the footage of the alleged incident. Date and time (obviously within reasonable parameters) but if your doing your job and not doing anything that would be justified as mis conduct, why would you worried about the cctv anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2015 13:21:00 GMT
28 days holiday is the minimum legal entitlement so if you have 20 speak to your union! If you get a complaint and managers look through a whole days CCTV and pull you on something unrelated, speak to your union. That is not correct practice, although I find it hard to believe a manager would spend the time doing what you said. I can understand you being negative, having walked out on a good contract in 2010 and having to re-start on a bad one. I worked for London General/Go-Ahead for 18 years and saw the union sit back and do nothing when the company eroded terms and conditions for competitive reasons (as Stagecoach, I believe, has also subsequently done.) Managers are themselves often under pressure and certainly wouldn't have time to look through hours of CCTV manager don't look through cctv they have CCTV analyst who does the job,
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Post by sid on Jan 14, 2015 13:25:53 GMT
Managers are themselves often under pressure and certainly wouldn't have time to look through hours of CCTV manager don't look through cctv they have CCTV analyst who does the job, So they employ somebody just to look through CCTV? Sounds like a really fun job
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2015 13:26:31 GMT
Managers are themselves often under pressure and certainly wouldn't have time to look through hours of CCTV Data protection does not allow them to watch you all day, they are only allowed to view the footage of the alleged incident. Date and time (obviously within reasonable parameters) but if your doing your job and not doing anything that would be justified as mis conduct, why would you worried about the cctv anyway. i am never worried but i have seen them discipline drivers because they have looked through cctv and found something else even so they suppose to look at the incident concerned only,
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