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Post by ServerKing on Jan 6, 2015 19:53:19 GMT
Breaking News : TGM offer to run limited services on key routes into London, and are preparing their fleet
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jan 6, 2015 20:25:38 GMT
With Arriva Kent Thamesside not striking, the infamous 160 will be a 'normal' service!
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Post by COBO on Jan 6, 2015 20:30:27 GMT
Can London survive a Bus strike.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 20:40:37 GMT
Can London survive a Bus strike. Yep did in 2012 If the TT strike is anything to go by there will be a fair number of buses running.
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Post by COBO on Jan 6, 2015 20:44:22 GMT
Can London survive a Bus strike. Yep did in 2012 If the TT strike is anything to go by there will be a fair number of buses running. I don't think it was a all London strike because didn't Arriva London routes in service during the strike of 2012?
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Post by snoggle on Jan 6, 2015 20:51:25 GMT
Can London survive a Bus strike. Of course it can. People will be inconvenienced and the rail and tube network will be dreadfully overloaded but a 1 day strike won't have much of an impact. It would only get difficult if the drivers went on long term strike so there were no buses for a week or a fortnight. That would bring the pains on because the public would be furious, the traffic would be horrendous and the bus companies would be losing vast amounts of money from TfL from running no service. Of course the drivers themselves would be very much out of pocket which is why Unite have not called such a strike - they know they'd get no support from the majority of drivers because people can't carry that scale of financial loss when they've bills to pay and families to support. I can remember cycling to work through horrific traffic when we had a combined tube and bus strike sometime in the 1980s. Now that *was* fun - complete and utter chaos!!
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Post by vjaska on Jan 6, 2015 20:53:25 GMT
Seen a list of operators who are striking and it seems only Quality Line, Arriva Kent Thameside & Sullivan Buses are the only operators who are not striking. Plus Arriva the Shires around NW London Yep, only saw your original post after I posted - epic whoopsie from me lol.
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Post by rambo on Jan 7, 2015 0:10:21 GMT
Do people really think it's fair that drivers on the same route get different rates of pay?
Lets say that at 18 yrs of age I start work for fords as a mechanic in dagenham. At 30 yrs of age I am now an experienced mechanic. I meet a girl and fall in love, she lives in clapham. I decide to move to clapham and live with her. I go to ford's at clapham for a job, would it be ok for ford's at clapham to start me on new mechanics money and take no notice of my experience? Because that is what happens with london bus drivers.
As I stated before, TFL put the fares up every year, and yet new driver rates go down, how is that fair for the public and drivers alike.
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Post by joefrombow on Jan 7, 2015 0:54:18 GMT
Do people really think it's fair that drivers on the same route get different rates of pay? Lets say that at 18 yrs of age I start work for fords as a mechanic in dagenham. At 30 yrs of age I am now an experienced mechanic. I meet a girl and fall in love, she lives in clapham. I decide to move to clapham and live with her. I go to ford's at clapham for a job, would it be ok for ford's at clapham to start me on new mechanics money and take no notice of my experience? Because that is what happens with london bus drivers. As I stated before, TFL put the fares up every year, and yet new driver rates go down, how is that fair for the public and drivers alike. I agree with you 100% I think there should be a starter rate for your first year if you gained your licence through the company or a guaranteed daily rate then after that you should be entitled to the higher rate I think a lot of the problem is the general public don't see driving as a skilled job when it definetly is especially now with CPC and the like and pay should reflect that from a business point of view what reason is there that the company's can't all agree on a starter rate and a higher rate ??
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jan 7, 2015 2:40:30 GMT
Yep did in 2012 If the TT strike is anything to go by there will be a fair number of buses running. I don't think it was a all London strike because didn't Arriva London routes in service during the strike of 2012? Some did, such as the 197 from TC with the minimum of drivers, but there were no 176's throughout the day.
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Post by Steve80 on Jan 7, 2015 3:25:31 GMT
Central London will be fun to drive thru as all the Sunday drivers take to the roads... The strike is pointless, these are all individual companies, you can't make them pay all the same rate. If it was something like drivers on the District line getting less than drivers on the Piccadilly line whilst working for the same company being the Underground, I would understand. But it's like complaining that a Punto isn't as quick as a Bugatti I would be surprised if Unite could get all companies to pay the same but nevertheless I would still be supporting the strike as personally, the pay is too low. Maybe if Unite could get some kind of minimum pay for all companies that would be good. A minimum pay of 30k would be even better From what I understand, they can't even get the companies all to one table to sit down and talk.
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Post by Steve80 on Jan 7, 2015 3:32:37 GMT
Do people really think it's fair that drivers on the same route get different rates of pay? Lets say that at 18 yrs of age I start work for fords as a mechanic in dagenham. At 30 yrs of age I am now an experienced mechanic. I meet a girl and fall in love, she lives in clapham. I decide to move to clapham and live with her. I go to ford's at clapham for a job, would it be ok for ford's at clapham to start me on new mechanics money and take no notice of my experience? Because that is what happens with london bus drivers. As I stated before, TFL put the fares up every year, and yet new driver rates go down, how is that fair for the public and drivers alike. We also have a situation at BC where some drivers on the T33 get paid much more than the other drivers because they were transferred from Metrobus/Go Ahead even though the garage where they were based at is less than a 5 minute walk from our garage.
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Post by Madstuntman on Jan 7, 2015 6:14:42 GMT
I don't support this strike. When you apply for a job you are informed of the rate of pay at that company. If you don't like that rate then don't take the job. There is a garage 5 minutes down the road that pays more? Apply there then!!!
You wouldn't take a mobile phone contract at £60/month and then a year later demand they reduce it because all your friends are on a £40/month contract!!!
The thing is that if they do this they might take an average of pay across London and impose that. Meaning a pay cut for some. I get over £14/hour at the moment and I'm not accepting and striking for potentially £13.... Unite haven't told me what they want the end result to be. Yes they why equal pay but what do they want that pay to be??? Because I'm sorry to say that all I care about is the figure in my bank every week and my ability to pay my mortgage and other bills. Might not be the right attitude but I do this job to pay my way and my family's way not for the love.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 7, 2015 8:57:38 GMT
I think there are several factors in play here.
1. Unite want to have London wide bargaining across all companies because it increases their power to bring London to a halt.
2. I suspect Unite are not unduly bothered about the level of a short term settlement. The point is to get one agreement and then push wages up from there using their greater industrial muscle.
3. The tendering process is the thing that applies cost pressure to the bus companies. Wages are the highest share of costs so inevitably are under the greatest pressure.
4. Mayoral and government policy is to reduce operating grant on all TfL services and TfL have had to constrain the bus budget to cope with the grant reductions. This has resulted in fare rises every year and a downward push on tender costs. As operator profits are related to turnover and efficient working they will always chase work. To win tenders they have to push down on staff costs.
5. There is probably a hidden long term objective on the part of the unions to undermine the tendering process and the multi operator structure in London. They may well want a return to a single public sector operator with all that entails. If that is part of the game plan then it is certaintly questionable whether they should be getting drivers to go on strike to further that unstated aim.
6. There will be issues, as the economy improves, about driver retention if people can earn more elsewhere. Therefore some improvement in wages will become necessary if bus companies are to actually run services reliably. No point taking on contracts if you are going to have payment deductions from day one due to poor service.
7. If TfL want to run more service then better wages may be needed to help recruitment of more staff. Wonder if TfL have factored that in their future budgets?
I'm not commenting about the rights or wrongs of better wages. I just think this is not as straightforward as the union perhaps likes to portray it.
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Post by Paul on Jan 7, 2015 12:03:56 GMT
Madstuntman has hit the nail squarely on the head. The pay rates are no secret and no one is forcing new starters to accept a job with a company paying them less than established drivers
In an ideal world, yes, bus drivers London-wide would all get paid the same. However, this is not an ideal world and in the world of competitive tendering differing pay scales can make all the difference. Comparisons with Tube and DLR drivers are not valid because they all work for the same company; London's bus drivers do not. Unite do lots of good work but on this occasion they will not be successful
I'm not sure how successful this strike will be. Those drivers on the higher rates of pay are going to be very reluctant to strike because there's really nothing in it for them. One driver I was speaking to said what's the point in striking for lower pay? He's got a point. Drivers will not all be brought up to the highest rate so, inevitably, there will be some drivers who end up taking a pay cut. Turkeys voting for Christmas anyone?
I'm going to need to think long and hard what I'm going to do on the 13th
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