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Post by DT 11 on Feb 5, 2015 22:12:57 GMT
Do bus companies get fined for non running buses due to strike action? If the strike is Planned I don't think so
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Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 5, 2015 22:13:06 GMT
tfl allocates drivers wages to the bus companies, I didn't get your point what is arrogant about unite, tfl not just arrogant but bully and selfish as well This has nothing to do with TfL and there is nothing they can do to resolve it. I heard a Unite spokesman on the BBC lunchtime news saying that drivers across London all collect the same fares, does he really not know buses are all cashless now? There are various things TfL could do. But at the end of the day, it is down to cost. It WOULD cost them more. Hence why the buck is being laid around.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 5, 2015 22:16:35 GMT
People are just being pedantic about the situation. I think it's disgusting that low pay and rubbish t &c's are a reason why an operator can win a route. Tfl can fix this by leveling the playing field in regards to wages and t&c's, They can't simply wash their hands of it. Yes the private operators might run the buses but it's practically a tfl cartel anyway what with the fines and terms they impose of operators the buses they specify and the fact they're branded with tfl owned logos etc etc. There are many other ways tenders could still work with level wages. Actual route performance and customer service could come in to it and distance from the garage etc not just the cheapest race to the bottom wins. Oh and before anyone goes oh fares will go up, before last year there hadn't been any pay rises at Stagecoach for years and fares still rose substantially in that period. The same way that Ken Livingstone had introduce the TfL bonus around 13 years ago.
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Post by Ted Barclay on Feb 5, 2015 22:20:19 GMT
Do bus companies get fined for non running buses due to strike action? If the strike is Planned I don't think so The companies do get fined - by quite a substantial amount.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 5, 2015 22:35:19 GMT
One thing I do not understand that Go-Ahead London MD saying about competition etc on the news. And they were not allowed to meet as operators to discuss these kinds of matters. But why was there a bus operators forum and it did previously discuss pay matters - however it did not set any rates.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 5, 2015 22:36:17 GMT
Out and about today, definitely more buses around. Though I mainly used trains today, I didn't have to wait too long for a 472 from Woolwich to Charlton, nor my 422 home tonight (E232, with a very cheerful driver behind the wheel). Whatever your feelings about the strike, whether you're a ryan, or a smoothcriminal or a sid, or whoever you are, as a plain old boring commuter today, I'd like to thank those drivers who did turn out to work today. In my opinion, they deserve our utmost respect. Here here.
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Post by sid on Feb 5, 2015 22:43:21 GMT
This has nothing to do with TfL and there is nothing they can do to resolve it. I heard a Unite spokesman on the BBC lunchtime news saying that drivers across London all collect the same fares, does he really not know buses are all cashless now? There are various things TfL could do. But at the end of the day, it is down to cost. It WOULD cost them more. Hence why the buck is being laid around. I'm really not sure there is much TfL can do, when work is subcontracted out then staffing issues are the responsibility of the sub contractors, ie the bus operators in this case.
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Post by twobellstogo on Feb 5, 2015 22:50:03 GMT
Unite and GAL's MD John Trayner having a 'discussion' on BBC London this evening. youtu.be/j337VfXxzXYCompetition Law Well does not surprise me. I doubt Unite will have much success getting all Operators to Sit Down and talk which is what they want. If these strikes continue with no change for the demands, I can see strikes becoming no disruption and full services running. A lot more buses running down my area today. There will always be a hardcore that will strike ad infinitum. If the dispute continues, I suspect the numbers of buses operating on each strike day will initially continue to rise each time...until a high water mark is reached. What percentage that will be, I don't know. Could be 50% or so, may be as high as 95%. But it's most unlikely it will ever reach full service levels on strike days.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Feb 5, 2015 23:15:32 GMT
The shock of the day was seeing the P13 operating a near-normal service today, although that information didn't appear to get to the passengers who were thin on the ground.
GAL at PM appeared to put their resources into providing the 363 again with a near-normal timetable throughout the day and was more frequent than the 12 which is a rare occurance.
At one point today, I saw three 185's down Lordship Lane within 10 mins of each other.
At least round here, it was an improvement on January's strike, but the lack of Arriva routes said it all, including the 176.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 6, 2015 0:21:14 GMT
Do bus companies get fined for non running buses due to strike action? Their contracted payments will reduce in line with the level of service run. If no service runs on a route then they lose the full day's payment for that route. What I am less clear about is whether industrial action incurs a further penalty beyond loss of payments for not running the contracted service.
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Post by Alex on Feb 6, 2015 0:54:39 GMT
Fares go up every year. Operators profits go up every year. New drivers money goes down every year. How on earth is that fair? This is the single best quote in this thread - short, simple and to the point. I'd agree that all money (not just new starters) goes down every year - as the pay increases I hear of don't even match inflation. I back the industrial action, you can argue that the different arrangements from company to company are how the tender arrangements work, but on a general level I think bus drivers should take a stand. I think this business of bringing people from Romania and such places is appalling, I think waiting eight years to get onto the highest rate of pay is appalling, and I think the hourly rates some companies advertise are appalling. The whole setup is against bus drivers and these companies being greedy is making the lives of thousands of people very difficult. I appreciate the work that bus drivers do, I take my hat off to them and think that conditions need to drastically improve. If ALL companies get on the same wavelength (not sure how this would work legally with competition laws etc) then things would improve for the drivers (maybe this sort of thing is what Unite are angling for as opposed to a new LT). If all the tender bids went up a bit to allow for this TfL would still have to pick one. TfL are good at chucking money away on LU (such as the SSR signalling upgrade) so a bit more here and there on the buses would be manageable. Sorry to come across as a bit thick or missing points, but on a basic discussion level, the deal for bus drivers is nowhere near good enough and things need to improve. Credit where it's due.
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Post by sid on Feb 6, 2015 11:11:27 GMT
Fares go up every year. Operators profits go up every year. New drivers money goes down every year. How on earth is that fair? This is the single best quote in this thread - short, simple and to the point. I'd agree that all money (not just new starters) goes down every year - as the pay increases I hear of don't even match inflation. I back the industrial action, you can argue that the different arrangements from company to company are how the tender arrangements work, but on a general level I think bus drivers should take a stand. I think this business of bringing people from Romania and such places is appalling, I think waiting eight years to get onto the highest rate of pay is appalling, and I think the hourly rates some companies advertise are appalling. The whole setup is against bus drivers and these companies being greedy is making the lives of thousands of people very difficult. I appreciate the work that bus drivers do, I take my hat off to them and think that conditions need to drastically improve. If ALL companies get on the same wavelength (not sure how this would work legally with competition laws etc) then things would improve for the drivers (maybe this sort of thing is what Unite are angling for as opposed to a new LT). If all the tender bids went up a bit to allow for this TfL would still have to pick one. TfL are good at chucking money away on LU (such as the SSR signalling upgrade) so a bit more here and there on the buses would be manageable. Sorry to come across as a bit thick or missing points, but on a basic discussion level, the deal for bus drivers is nowhere near good enough and things need to improve. Credit where it's due. Well of course that last paragraph applies to a lot of jobs which are paying comparitively less than they were a few years ago and cheap labour from abroad is a fact of life in many industries nowadays.
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Post by rambo on Feb 6, 2015 11:20:20 GMT
Fares go up every year. Operators profits go up every year. New drivers money goes down every year. How on earth is that fair? This is the single best quote in this thread - short, simple and to the point. I'd agree that all money (not just new starters) goes down every year - as the pay increases I hear of don't even match inflation. I back the industrial action, you can argue that the different arrangements from company to company are how the tender arrangements work, but on a general level I think bus drivers should take a stand. I think this business of bringing people from Romania and such places is appalling, I think waiting eight years to get onto the highest rate of pay is appalling, and I think the hourly rates some companies advertise are appalling. The whole setup is against bus drivers and these companies being greedy is making the lives of thousands of people very difficult. I appreciate the work that bus drivers do, I take my hat off to them and think that conditions need to drastically improve. If ALL companies get on the same wavelength (not sure how this would work legally with competition laws etc) then things would improve for the drivers (maybe this sort of thing is what Unite are angling for as opposed to a new LT). If all the tender bids went up a bit to allow for this TfL would still have to pick one. TfL are good at chucking money away on LU (such as the SSR signalling upgrade) so a bit more here and there on the buses would be manageable. Sorry to come across as a bit thick or missing points, but on a basic discussion level, the deal for bus drivers is nowhere near good enough and things need to improve. Credit where it's due. That't the 2nd best quote of this thread!.................
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Post by rambo on Feb 6, 2015 11:24:50 GMT
This is the single best quote in this thread - short, simple and to the point. I'd agree that all money (not just new starters) goes down every year - as the pay increases I hear of don't even match inflation. I back the industrial action, you can argue that the different arrangements from company to company are how the tender arrangements work, but on a general level I think bus drivers should take a stand. I think this business of bringing people from Romania and such places is appalling, I think waiting eight years to get onto the highest rate of pay is appalling, and I think the hourly rates some companies advertise are appalling. The whole setup is against bus drivers and these companies being greedy is making the lives of thousands of people very difficult. I appreciate the work that bus drivers do, I take my hat off to them and think that conditions need to drastically improve. If ALL companies get on the same wavelength (not sure how this would work legally with competition laws etc) then things would improve for the drivers (maybe this sort of thing is what Unite are angling for as opposed to a new LT). If all the tender bids went up a bit to allow for this TfL would still have to pick one. TfL are good at chucking money away on LU (such as the SSR signalling upgrade) so a bit more here and there on the buses would be manageable. Sorry to come across as a bit thick or missing points, but on a basic discussion level, the deal for bus drivers is nowhere near good enough and things need to improve. Credit where it's due. Well of course that last paragraph applies to a lot of jobs which are paying comparitively less than they were a few years ago and cheap labour from abroad is a fact of life in many industries nowadays. Your right, it is happening in alot of industries, and it's not right. We as consumers must bear some of the resposibilty, we want goods and services at a cheaper price. An example; We can buy 4 pints of milk for £1 in iceland, which, imo, is very cheap, I would much rather pay £1.50 if it meant the milk farmers got a decent price for their milk.
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Post by rambo on Feb 6, 2015 11:33:05 GMT
Fares go up every year. Operators profits go up every year. New drivers money goes down every year. How on earth is that fair? I wished someone from UNITE would get on the telly and say this!! UNITE really need to put across this fact to the public. Maybe a full page advert in the metro and evening standard explaining this and that drivers get the same rate at 10am and at 10pm, and drivers at some companies get an extra 40 pence per hour for working on their days off. TFL and the operators keep going on about experienced drivers deserve more, so why doesnt UNITE ask john trayner of gal why, if a driver with 10yrs experience joins gal, that driver will be on the lowest rate? UNITE's media policy has been very sadly lacking, imo. When I speak to passengers about the strike, so far 100% have agreed why drivers are on strike.
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