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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 15, 2023 14:09:10 GMT
The 5 is not the only low-numbered route that doesn't reach central London (although admittedly it is the lowest). The 20, 32, 33, 34, 37 and 39 don't either. Of these, routes 5, 33 & 39 used to reach the current zone 1: Waterloo, Kensington and Victoria/Oxford Circus respectively. Rumour has it that the next route to be curtailed outside zone 1 will be route 25. Back in 2003/04 I could easily have seen the 25 pulled out of the Ilford area. Now it's the Ilford end that is very much the safe part of the route as that is where the highest demand is.
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Post by dominic on Jan 17, 2023 17:08:19 GMT
Changes with routes 12, 53, 453 and N53 and New night route N12:
453 withdrawn and is replaced by route 12 partly.
12 extended from Oxford Circus to Marlyebone to replace 453, 12 night service also renumbered N12 running
between Marlyebone and Caterham On The Hill. following route 197 from Dulwich Library and route 466 from East
Croydon.
N53 withdrawn and replaced by 53.
53 extended to Oxford Circus and converted back to a 24-hour service.
Changes to routes: 14 and 93 and new Night route: N14.
14 and 93 night services withdrawn and replaced.
New night route N14 running between Russell Square and Epsom Hospital. Follows routes 14 to Putney Heath,
93 to North Cheam (circular where the terminal is btw) and 293 from Morden
Why these changes:
12: 453 follows the section between Lambeth North and Oxford Circus, there is no need for route 453. so 12 would be
extended to Marlyebone.
453: follows routes 53 between Deptford Bridge and Lambeth North and 12 between Elephant & Castle to
Oxford Circus
N12: would be helpful for route 197 at night also giving South Norwood back it's night service and giving more links
with Croydon to Central London at Night.
14 and 93: would be better off having route N14 to help people to get from and to Central London to Cheam/Epsom
at night.
N14: as mentioned above. Helpful for links to and from Central London with Morden/Cheam/Epsom/Wimbledon.
N53: we just don't need the night service on this, just convert 53 to a 24-hour service again.
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Post by rjbarrett5 on Jan 17, 2023 17:18:01 GMT
Changes with routes 12, 53, 453 and N53 and New night route N12: 453 withdrawn and is replaced by route 12 partly. 12 extended from Oxford Circus to Marlyebone to replace 453, 12 night service also renumbered N12 running between Marlyebone and Caterham On The Hill. following route 197 from Dulwich Library and route 466 from East Croydon. N53 withdrawn and replaced by 53. 53 extended to Oxford Circus and converted back to a 24-hour service. Changes to routes: 14 and 93 and new Night route: N14. 14 and 93 night services withdrawn and replaced. New night route N14 running between Russell Square and Epsom Hospital. Follows routes 14 to Putney Heath, 93 to North Cheam (circular where the terminal is btw) and 293 from Morden Why these changes: 12: 453 follows the section between Lambeth North and Oxford Circus, there is no need for route 453. so 12 would be extended to Marlyebone. 453: follows routes 53 between Deptford Bridge and Lambeth North and 12 between Elephant & Castle to Oxford Circus N12: would be helpful for route 197 at night also giving South Norwood back it's night service and giving more links with Croydon to Central London at Night. 14 and 93: would be better off having route N14 to help people to get from and to Central London to Cheam/Epsom at night. N14: as mentioned above. Helpful for links to and from Central London with Morden/Cheam/Epsom/Wimbledon. N53: we just don't need the night service on this, just convert 53 to a 24-hour service again. Marylebone to Caterham is nearly thirty miles long, especially on weekends it would take 2-3 hours end to end. 53, not only would it also be astonishing long, it would also need to be roughly 20 bph to meet demand along OKR and New Cross which would severely overbus the Blackheath-Plumstead section. If you really want to withdraw 453 the best option would be to introduce an X53 to recoup some of that demand without overbussing half the route.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jan 17, 2023 17:21:01 GMT
Changes with routes 12, 53, 453 and N53 and New night route N12: 453 withdrawn and is replaced by route 12 partly. 12 extended from Oxford Circus to Marlyebone to replace 453, 12 night service also renumbered N12 running between Marlyebone and Caterham On The Hill. following route 197 from Dulwich Library and route 466 from East Croydon. N53 withdrawn and replaced by 53. 53 extended to Oxford Circus and converted back to a 24-hour service. Changes to routes: 14 and 93 and new Night route: N14. 14 and 93 night services withdrawn and replaced. New night route N14 running between Russell Square and Epsom Hospital. Follows routes 14 to Putney Heath, 93 to North Cheam (circular where the terminal is btw) and 293 from Morden Why these changes: 12: 453 follows the section between Lambeth North and Oxford Circus, there is no need for route 453. so 12 would be extended to Marlyebone. 453: follows routes 53 between Deptford Bridge and Lambeth North and 12 between Elephant & Castle to Oxford Circus N12: would be helpful for route 197 at night also giving South Norwood back it's night service and giving more links with Croydon to Central London at Night. 14 and 93: would be better off having route N14 to help people to get from and to Central London to Cheam/Epsom at night. N14: as mentioned above. Helpful for links to and from Central London with Morden/Cheam/Epsom/Wimbledon. N53: we just don't need the night service on this, just convert 53 to a 24-hour service again. There is nothing open in Epsom past midnight. It’s an expensive waste of resources having a night route there when it would only attract a very limited number of passengers. No point providing a bus service if most of the patrons still have to get a taxi onwards anyway.
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Post by greenboy on Jan 17, 2023 17:36:41 GMT
Changes with routes 12, 53, 453 and N53 and New night route N12: 453 withdrawn and is replaced by route 12 partly. 12 extended from Oxford Circus to Marlyebone to replace 453, 12 night service also renumbered N12 running between Marlyebone and Caterham On The Hill. following route 197 from Dulwich Library and route 466 from East Croydon. N53 withdrawn and replaced by 53. 53 extended to Oxford Circus and converted back to a 24-hour service. Changes to routes: 14 and 93 and new Night route: N14. 14 and 93 night services withdrawn and replaced. New night route N14 running between Russell Square and Epsom Hospital. Follows routes 14 to Putney Heath, 93 to North Cheam (circular where the terminal is btw) and 293 from Morden Why these changes: 12: 453 follows the section between Lambeth North and Oxford Circus, there is no need for route 453. so 12 would be extended to Marlyebone. 453: follows routes 53 between Deptford Bridge and Lambeth North and 12 between Elephant & Castle to Oxford Circus N12: would be helpful for route 197 at night also giving South Norwood back it's night service and giving more links with Croydon to Central London at Night. 14 and 93: would be better off having route N14 to help people to get from and to Central London to Cheam/Epsom at night. N14: as mentioned above. Helpful for links to and from Central London with Morden/Cheam/Epsom/Wimbledon. N53: we just don't need the night service on this, just convert 53 to a 24-hour service again. The 12,53,453 possibly but the N12 does seem a bit ambitious, it would be simpler to extend the N176 to Norwood Junction and possibly onto Croydon via the 197 route and if Caterham on the Hill really needs a night service it would be simpler just to extend the N68 there from Old Coulsdon. I agree about extending the N14 to North Cheam but I'm not sure Epsom can be justified?
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Post by abellion on Jan 17, 2023 18:12:02 GMT
Changes with routes 12, 53, 453 and N53 and New night route N12: 453 withdrawn and is replaced by route 12 partly. 12 extended from Oxford Circus to Marlyebone to replace 453, 12 night service also renumbered N12 running between Marlyebone and Caterham On The Hill. following route 197 from Dulwich Library and route 466 from East Croydon. N53 withdrawn and replaced by 53. 53 extended to Oxford Circus and converted back to a 24-hour service. Makes no sense to withdraw the 453 when it is always heavily used from the first stop up to Oxford Circus. The 53 would not cope with the passengers and congestion when TfL deemed it unviable to run to Whitehall and just proposed cutting it to Elephant. The 172 is 100000x more expendable than the 453 and arguably the 12 is considering the high volume of buses from Elephant to Camberwell and Peckham, although ideally nothing should be altered with
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Post by M1104 on Jan 26, 2023 11:21:59 GMT
Changes with routes 12, 53, 453 and N53 and New night route N12: 453 withdrawn and is replaced by route 12 partly. 12 extended from Oxford Circus to Marlyebone to replace 453, 12 night service also renumbered N12 running between Marlyebone and Caterham On The Hill. following route 197 from Dulwich Library and route 466 from East Croydon. N53 withdrawn and replaced by 53. 53 extended to Oxford Circus and converted back to a 24-hour service. Changes to routes: 14 and 93 and new Night route: N14. 14 and 93 night services withdrawn and replaced. New night route N14 running between Russell Square and Epsom Hospital. Follows routes 14 to Putney Heath, 93 to North Cheam (circular where the terminal is btw) and 293 from Morden Why these changes: 12: 453 follows the section between Lambeth North and Oxford Circus, there is no need for route 453. so 12 would be extended to Marlyebone. 453: follows routes 53 between Deptford Bridge and Lambeth North and 12 between Elephant & Castle to Oxford Circus N12: would be helpful for route 197 at night also giving South Norwood back it's night service and giving more links with Croydon to Central London at Night. 14 and 93: would be better off having route N14 to help people to get from and to Central London to Cheam/Epsom at night. N14: as mentioned above. Helpful for links to and from Central London with Morden/Cheam/Epsom/Wimbledon. N53: we just don't need the night service on this, just convert 53 to a 24-hour service again. The 12,53,453 possibly but the N12 does seem a bit ambitious, it would be simpler to extend the N176 to Norwood Junction and possibly onto Croydon via the 197 route and if Caterham on the Hill really needs a night service it would be simpler just to extend the N68 there from Old Coulsdon. I agree about extending the N14 to North Cheam but I'm not sure Epsom can be justified? Bare in mind the N68 (like daytime 60) does a loop around the block prior to arriving at the Tudor Rose, Old Coulsdon terminus. Extending it to Caterham-on-the-Hill would mean it would have to turn right (instead of left) from The Crossways into Coulsdon Road, thus then missing out Tudor Rose in that southbound direction. This is unless there's a nearby turn around point after Tudor Rose where the bus could double back along Coulsdon Road. It's been a while since I've been up that way.
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Post by greenboy on Jan 26, 2023 12:07:07 GMT
The 12,53,453 possibly but the N12 does seem a bit ambitious, it would be simpler to extend the N176 to Norwood Junction and possibly onto Croydon via the 197 route and if Caterham on the Hill really needs a night service it would be simpler just to extend the N68 there from Old Coulsdon. I agree about extending the N14 to North Cheam but I'm not sure Epsom can be justified? Bare in mind the N68 (like daytime 60) does a loop around the block prior to arriving at the Tudor Rose, Old Coulsdon terminus. Extending it to Caterham-on-the-Hill would mean it would have to turn right (instead of left) from The Crossways into Coulsdon Road, thus then missing out Tudor Rose in that southbound direction. This is unless there's a nearby turn around point after Tudor Rose where the bus could double back along Coulsdon Road. It's been a while since I've been up that way. It could go via Placehouse Lane in both directions thus eliminating the awkward corner that prevents LT's being used. Anyway I don't think Caterham on the Hill justifies a night service so the situation is unlikely to occur.
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Post by northlondon83 on Jan 26, 2023 12:28:38 GMT
These posts should be in the withdrawn/new bus routes thread
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Post by ibus246 on Jan 26, 2023 13:22:41 GMT
The 12,53,453 possibly but the N12 does seem a bit ambitious, it would be simpler to extend the N176 to Norwood Junction and possibly onto Croydon via the 197 route and if Caterham on the Hill really needs a night service it would be simpler just to extend the N68 there from Old Coulsdon. I agree about extending the N14 to North Cheam but I'm not sure Epsom can be justified? Bare in mind the N68 (like daytime 60) does a loop around the block prior to arriving at the Tudor Rose, Old Coulsdon terminus. Extending it to Caterham-on-the-Hill would mean it would have to turn right (instead of left) from The Crossways into Coulsdon Road, thus then missing out Tudor Rose in that southbound direction. This is unless there's a nearby turn around point after Tudor Rose where the bus could double back along Coulsdon Road. It's been a while since I've been up that way. Regardless, I don’t think Caterham sets the world on fire regards patronage at night. It definitely doesn’t warrant a night service.
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Post by Dillon95 on Jan 27, 2023 14:06:58 GMT
Changes with routes 12, 53, 453 and N53 and New night route N12: 453 withdrawn and is replaced by route 12 partly. 12 extended from Oxford Circus to Marlyebone to replace 453, 12 night service also renumbered N12 running between Marlyebone and Caterham On The Hill. following route 197 from Dulwich Library and route 466 from East Croydon. N53 withdrawn and replaced by 53. 53 extended to Oxford Circus and converted back to a 24-hour service. Changes to routes: 14 and 93 and new Night route: N14. 14 and 93 night services withdrawn and replaced. New night route N14 running between Russell Square and Epsom Hospital. Follows routes 14 to Putney Heath, 93 to North Cheam (circular where the terminal is btw) and 293 from Morden Why these changes: 12: 453 follows the section between Lambeth North and Oxford Circus, there is no need for route 453. so 12 would be extended to Marlyebone. 453: follows routes 53 between Deptford Bridge and Lambeth North and 12 between Elephant & Castle to Oxford Circus N12: would be helpful for route 197 at night also giving South Norwood back it's night service and giving more links with Croydon to Central London at Night. 14 and 93: would be better off having route N14 to help people to get from and to Central London to Cheam/Epsom at night. N14: as mentioned above. Helpful for links to and from Central London with Morden/Cheam/Epsom/Wimbledon. N53: we just don't need the night service on this, just convert 53 to a 24-hour service again. There is nothing open in Epsom past midnight. It’s an expensive waste of resources having a night route there when it would only attract a very limited number of passengers. No point providing a bus service if most of the patrons still have to get a taxi onwards anyway. I’m not saying it’s needed but if it was to happen, I would think the route would be there to get Epsom residents home from London during the night, not the other way around. No one is going clubbing in Epsom, but people from Epsom surely use Central London for the night life. TFL doesn’t do night routes that cross the Greater London boundaries though do they, and if Epsom got one similar M25 towns like Dartford, Brentwood, Watford, Staines etc should have them as well.
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Post by enviroPB on Jan 27, 2023 15:30:27 GMT
There is nothing open in Epsom past midnight. It’s an expensive waste of resources having a night route there when it would only attract a very limited number of passengers. No point providing a bus service if most of the patrons still have to get a taxi onwards anyway. I’m not saying it’s needed but if it was to happen, I would think the route would be there to get Epsom residents home from London during the night, not the other way around. No one is going clubbing in Epsom, but people from Epsom surely use Central London for the night life. TFL doesn’t do night routes that cross the Greater London boundaries though do they, and if Epsom got one similar M25 towns like Dartford, Brentwood, Watford, Staines etc should have them as well. Technically the N279 does go outside the Greater London boundary at Waltham Cross. What makes it the only exception to the rule that you've mentioned is that the bus station at Waltham Cross is own & run by TfL. As well as usage levels, it could also be speculated that TfL have safety concerns over where buses stand at night outside of Greater London.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jan 27, 2023 16:25:56 GMT
There is nothing open in Epsom past midnight. It’s an expensive waste of resources having a night route there when it would only attract a very limited number of passengers. No point providing a bus service if most of the patrons still have to get a taxi onwards anyway. I’m not saying it’s needed but if it was to happen, I would think the route would be there to get Epsom residents home from London during the night, not the other way around. No one is going clubbing in Epsom, but people from Epsom surely use Central London for the night life. TFL doesn’t do night routes that cross the Greater London boundaries though do they, and if Epsom got one similar M25 towns like Dartford, Brentwood, Watford, Staines etc should have them as well. Yes, but they are still likely to plan their times around travelling home. Epsom like a lot of border towns has a much larger demographic of OAPs and families. They will plan and are more likely to use the night tube to Morden the use a mini cab or their own cars onwards. Even if they did use the bus service they would still require cabs or their own cars to compel their journeys from Epsom. It would be a colossal waste of money. If a route had to go to Epsom at night it would be better to provide later journeys on the 418 and 406 as they could connect from the N87 in Kingston, where they are more likely to go for a “night” out.
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Post by londonboy71 on Jan 27, 2023 19:04:47 GMT
These posts are nothing to do with changing numbers
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Post by vjaska on Jan 27, 2023 22:39:00 GMT
These posts are nothing to do with changing numbers So rather than only posting to say the same thing again, why not change that yourself. It's getting a bit tedious when the same person is merely posting the same message every time they're on.
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