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Post by snoggle on Jun 5, 2015 19:23:04 GMT
I believe there has been a clarion call for discussion about NW London's buses.  Oh well here goes - I think buses in NW London are useless. The route structure is poor, frequencies are often hopeless especially in the evening and on Sundays. The network is overly centred on two or three places (Greenford, Uxbridge, Ealing) with a need for mass changing of buses to get anywhere. There are also strategic gaps in the network making travel needlessly difficult. There are too many single deck routes which are hopelessly overloaded and TfL have barely made any changes in years and when they have it has taken about 3,000 years to make a change.  There is also the "cult of Metroline" whereby you can't travel any great distance except on one of their buses.  I think a bomb should be dropped on the network and TfL should start again.  Discuss ....... |
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Post by l1group on Jun 5, 2015 20:25:10 GMT
Oh well here goes - I think buses in NW London are useless. The route structure is poor, frequencies are often hopeless especially in the evening and on Sundays. The network is overly centred on one or two places (Greenford, Uxbridge, Ealing) with a need for mass changing of buses to get anywhere. There are also strategic gaps in the network making travel needlessly difficult. There are two many single deck routes which are hopelessly overloaded and TfL have barely made any changes in years and when they have it has taken about 3,000 years to make a change. There is also the "cult of Metroline" whereby you can't travel any great distance except on one of their buses. I think a bomb should be dropped on the network and TfL should start again. Yes. Almost. The network of bus routes in that area is annoying at times, slow, stuffing "main" routes such as the 83, 140 and the Uxbridge Road corridor routes. Some routes are underbussed (and too infrequent) (especially the 140 at its current situation). And it doesn't help when all the buses are either hot, dirty, vibrating itself to pieces or smelling funny. Very odd smells can sometimes come out of certain buses. That is my brutal description of my experiences of quite a lot of the Metroline buses in North West London, notably. The hub-and-spoke system that seems to apply in NW London would be at least better by making interchange easier in the hubs if the routes aren't to be changed. Ealing can be worse, Greenford is just a mess of bus stops. Routes like the E10 are really trying to do two jobs - provide a residential service whilst providing a longer distance service (Ealing-Northolt). They could be split? Travelling on a Sunday in NW London can be so bad, it's easier to just walk to an overcrowded "main" route at times instead. Which shouldn't really be happening, as Sunday is getting quite busy as a day of the week. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 23:00:42 GMT
You missed out harrow which has quite good links but not to ealing direct you have to go either via 297/83 to wembley or via hayes/northolt. Ealing will be rejigged when crossrail comes in 2018 but it needs tweaking now 5 routes to greenford is too many altho ealing broadway is losing its greenford rail service its being cut back to west ealing.
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Post by COBO on Jun 5, 2015 23:07:06 GMT
Ealing need links with Harrow and Hounslow.
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Post by LX09FBJ on Jun 6, 2015 4:15:06 GMT
With all the focus on the East, the West has generally been overlooked over the past few years. There are many links which could be useful such as: - Hounslow-Ealing (and possibly Greenford): Prehaps merging the E1 and E8 together could be useful. Or merge these two routes with the E2 extended to Hounslow
- Ealing-Heathrow: The only major area in West London not to have a direct bus link to Heathrow. Could run via Hounslow to 'kill two birds with one stone' so to speak
- Ealing-White City-Lancaster Gate: Could run together with a slight frequency cut on the 207.
- Ruislip and/or Harrow-Harlington Corner-Hounslow: Adds extra capacity on the 140 and H98. Could be solved by extending the H98 to Harrow and/or Ruislip
- Harrow-Northolt-Southall: Would run over 140 and 120 and relive pressure on the northern sections of these routes, as well as linking Harrow to Southall
- Greenford-(Northolt)-Southall-Cranford-Hounslow: Would run via 105 to Cranford and then via Hounslow West to Hounslow Town Centre
- New N120 between Hounslow and Harrow, gives a night link between Hounslow and Southall, something I believe would be useful every day and bolsters night service Northolt-Harrow.
It's possible to get from Ealing to Hounslow without Metroline- by taking E10 to Northolt (Arriva) and 120 (London United) but Metroline does have a major presence the area, thanks to taking over most of First. Ealing Broadway and its surrounding area is served by eight Metroline garages (AH, G, HS, ON, PA, UX, W and WJ) and AC if you count the 260 running a stones throw away in Acton. |
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 6, 2015 9:00:42 GMT
I believe there has been a clarion call for discussion about NW London's buses. Oh well here goes - I think buses in NW London are useless. The route structure is poor, frequencies are often hopeless especially in the evening and on Sundays. The network is overly centred on two or three places (Greenford, Uxbridge, Ealing) with a need for mass changing of buses to get anywhere. There are also strategic gaps in the network making travel needlessly difficult. There are too many single deck routes which are hopelessly overloaded and TfL have barely made any changes in years and when they have it has taken about 3,000 years to make a change. There is also the "cult of Metroline" whereby you can't travel any great distance except on one of their buses. I think a bomb should be dropped on the network and TfL should start again. Discuss ....... It's caught the attention of the more upmarket papers which is something...  Though I'm not paying £3 to see the rest of the article  |
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Post by snoggle on Jun 6, 2015 9:12:49 GMT
With all the focus on the East, the West has generally been overlooked over the past few years. There are many links which could be useful such as: - Hounslow-Ealing (and possibly Greenford): Prehaps merging the E1 and E8 together could be useful. Or merge these two routes with the E2 extended to Hounslow
- Ealing-Heathrow: The only major area in West London not to have a direct bus link to Heathrow. Could run via Hounslow to 'kill two birds with one stone' so to speak
- Ealing-White City-Lancaster Gate: Could run together with a slight frequency cut on the 207.
- Ruislip and/or Harrow-Harlington Corner-Hounslow: Adds extra capacity on the 140 and H98. Could be solved by extending the H98 to Harrow and/or Ruislip
- Harrow-Northolt-Southall: Would run over 140 and 120 and relive pressure on the northern sections of these routes, as well as linking Harrow to Southall
- Greenford-(Northolt)-Southall-Cranford-Hounslow: Would run via 105 to Cranford and then via Hounslow West to Hounslow Town Centre
- New N120 between Hounslow and Harrow, gives a night link between Hounslow and Southall, something I believe would be useful every day and bolsters night service Northolt-Harrow.
It's possible to get from Ealing to Hounslow without Metroline- by taking E10 to Northolt (Arriva) and 120 (London United) but Metroline does have a major presence the area, thanks to taking over most of First. Ealing Broadway and its surrounding area is served by eight Metroline garages (AH, G, HS, ON, PA, UX, W and WJ) and AC if you count the 260 running a stones throw away in Acton. I'm not sure I agree with all of the links you've proposed but many of them are perfectly sensible. I guess my main question is whether you'd extend an already very busy route like the H98 or whether you would add in some brand new routes to help raise network frequencies and add new links. If you have a route that is modestly used and could be extended then that makes sense - the long debated Ealing to Hounslow link falls into that category. I think something like Ealing - Heathrow or Ealing - Harrow should be new services. One of the issues in NW London is the imbalance in bus provision where the tube also runs. Very little parallels the Met Line west of Harrow to Uxbridge, ditto Ealing to Heathrow despite the vast difference in fares. Other places seem to have plenty of tube or rail duplication - Hammersmith to Chiswick is a classic example. NW London is not unique in having this issue - obviously happens a lot in Zone 1 and in East London - but is somehow more noticeable in West London. |
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Post by M1199 on Jun 6, 2015 10:07:33 GMT
For decades, Uxbridge has been based on a local network, with only the 207(427), 607 and the 222 leaving for another borough, there were other routes such as the old 98-Ruislip/Uxbridge - Hounslow (via current H98 route) and the 224 down to Staines and Laleham. But they've long since been forgotten.
I've often thought a route between Uxbridge and Harrow could be viable and another between Uxbridge and Staines, but I wouldn't know what routings they'd take.
What Uxbridge misses out with in connecting other London Borough's, it certainly makes up for in non TfL services, over the last decade, they have improved dramatically. In 2003, you had the 58 to Slough every 30min and the 305 to High Wycombe every 90-120 minutes. Nowadays you've got the 7/58 to Slough every 15 minutes and the 740/A40 to High Wycombe every 20 minutes. On top of that you've got the 730 which connects Amersham, Chesham and Hemel Hempstead every 60 min.
I've said it before, but I think Carousel have worked wonders in that neck of the woods, opening up the Heathrow/Uxbridge link network, providing a popular and reliable service to towns and villages for the first time in years.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 6, 2015 15:39:53 GMT
With all the focus on the East, the West has generally been overlooked over the past few years. There are many links which could be useful such as: - Hounslow-Ealing (and possibly Greenford): Prehaps merging the E1 and E8 together could be useful. Or merge these two routes with the E2 extended to Hounslow
- Ealing-Heathrow: The only major area in West London not to have a direct bus link to Heathrow. Could run via Hounslow to 'kill two birds with one stone' so to speak
- Ealing-White City-Lancaster Gate: Could run together with a slight frequency cut on the 207.
- Ruislip and/or Harrow-Harlington Corner-Hounslow: Adds extra capacity on the 140 and H98. Could be solved by extending the H98 to Harrow and/or Ruislip
- Harrow-Northolt-Southall: Would run over 140 and 120 and relive pressure on the northern sections of these routes, as well as linking Harrow to Southall
- Greenford-(Northolt)-Southall-Cranford-Hounslow: Would run via 105 to Cranford and then via Hounslow West to Hounslow Town Centre
- New N120 between Hounslow and Harrow, gives a night link between Hounslow and Southall, something I believe would be useful every day and bolsters night service Northolt-Harrow.
It's possible to get from Ealing to Hounslow without Metroline- by taking E10 to Northolt (Arriva) and 120 (London United) but Metroline does have a major presence the area, thanks to taking over most of First. Ealing Broadway and its surrounding area is served by eight Metroline garages (AH, G, HS, ON, PA, UX, W and WJ) and AC if you count the 260 running a stones throw away in Acton. In regards to a Heathrow to Ealing link and a Hounslow to Heathrow link, I'd kill three birds by extending the E2 from Brentford to Heathrow via Isleworth, Hounslow, Hounslow West & the Bath Road corridor. I wouldn't merge the E1 & E8 together - I think, for now, they are fine as they are. I'm not so sure on a Ealing to Lancaster Gate link - I mean, it doesn't make it into the main parts of Central London - if only the 159 was still terminating at Paddington...... I think what the H98 needs is deckers and that's it. An extension to Uxbridge might work but I think extending it to Harrow would be too much. Besides, the Kingsway terminus in Hayes End seems well used so I'm not sure the locals would be happy with their route removed. Again, I'm unsure on a Harrow to Southall link myself but maybe there is demand. In addition, I'd implement two new routes to run from Ealing to Harrow and from Hounslow to Harrow The Ealing to Harrow link (numbered E4) would run via Uxbridge Road, Hanwell, Ealing Hospital OR via Castlebar Road, Castlebar Hill, Cleveland Road, Argyle Road, Ruislip Road East, THEN, Greenford Broadway, Greenford, Greenford Road, Whitton Avenue East, Sudbury Town, Sudbury & Harrow Road, Watford Road, Northwick Park Hospital, Sheepcote Road & Station Road The Hounslow to Harrow link (numbered H40) would run via Bath Road, Sutton Lane, Norwood Green, Windmill Lane, Uxbridge Road, Southall, Hayes, Yeading Lane, Yeading, Church Road, Northolt, Northolt Road, South Harrow, Bessborough Road I'm a little undecided which routing my E4 idea should take between Ealing & Greenford - Castlebar Road gives better reliability but Greenford Road provides a brand new link to Ealing Broadway. |
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Post by maximus23 on Jun 6, 2015 17:45:00 GMT
For decades, Uxbridge has been based on a local network, with only the 207(427), 607 and the 222 leaving for another borough, there were other routes such as the old 98-Ruislip/Uxbridge - Hounslow (via current H98 route) and the 224 down to Staines and Laleham. But they've long since been forgotten. I've often thought a route between Uxbridge and Harrow could be viable and another between Uxbridge and Staines, but I wouldn't know what routings they'd take. What Uxbridge misses out with in connecting other London Borough's, it certainly makes up for in non TfL services, over the last decade, they have improved dramatically. In 2003, you had the 58 to Slough every 30min and the 305 to High Wycombe every 90-120 minutes. Nowadays you've got the 7/58 to Slough every 15 minutes and the 740/A40 to High Wycombe every 20 minutes. On top of that you've got the 730 which connects Amersham, Chesham and Hemel Hempstead every 60 min. I've said it before, but I think Carousel have worked wonders in that neck of the woods, opening up the Heathrow/Uxbridge link network, providing a popular and reliable service to towns and villages for the first time in years. I've always thought that there isn't enough links to Uxbridge, especially along the Ruislip corridor. I think a new route from either Wembley or Harrow would be really useful, for me, it's always a struggle to get to Uxbridge from where I live and I've always hoped for a 487 extension although it will make the route too long. |
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Post by COBO on Jun 6, 2015 23:01:13 GMT
What's also missing is a route between Southall and Wembley via Alperton.
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Post by maximus23 on Jun 7, 2015 8:40:13 GMT
What's also missing is a route between Southall and Wembley via Alperton. A 105 extension would be ideal for that role. To provide new links from North London to Heathrow with Wembley being a major interchange. |
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Post by stubag on Jun 7, 2015 9:18:27 GMT
With all the focus on the East, the West has generally been overlooked over the past few years. There are many links which could be useful such as: - Hounslow-Ealing (and possibly Greenford): Prehaps merging the E1 and E8 together could be useful. Or merge these two routes with the E2 extended to Hounslow
- Ealing-Heathrow: The only major area in West London not to have a direct bus link to Heathrow. Could run via Hounslow to 'kill two birds with one stone' so to speak
- Ealing-White City-Lancaster Gate: Could run together with a slight frequency cut on the 207.
- Ruislip and/or Harrow-Harlington Corner-Hounslow: Adds extra capacity on the 140 and H98. Could be solved by extending the H98 to Harrow and/or Ruislip
- Harrow-Northolt-Southall: Would run over 140 and 120 and relive pressure on the northern sections of these routes, as well as linking Harrow to Southall
- Greenford-(Northolt)-Southall-Cranford-Hounslow: Would run via 105 to Cranford and then via Hounslow West to Hounslow Town Centre
- New N120 between Hounslow and Harrow, gives a night link between Hounslow and Southall, something I believe would be useful every day and bolsters night service Northolt-Harrow.
It's possible to get from Ealing to Hounslow without Metroline- by taking E10 to Northolt (Arriva) and 120 (London United) but Metroline does have a major presence the area, thanks to taking over most of First. Ealing Broadway and its surrounding area is served by eight Metroline garages (AH, G, HS, ON, PA, UX, W and WJ) and AC if you count the 260 running a stones throw away in Acton. In regards to a Heathrow to Ealing link and a Hounslow to Heathrow link, I'd kill three birds by extending the E2 from Brentford to Heathrow via Isleworth, Hounslow, Hounslow West & the Bath Road corridor. I wouldn't merge the E1 & E8 together - I think, for now, they are fine as they are. I'm not so sure on a Ealing to Lancaster Gate link - I mean, it doesn't make it into the main parts of Central London - if only the 159 was still terminating at Paddington...... I think what the H98 needs is deckers and that's it. An extension to Uxbridge might work but I think extending it to Harrow would be too much. Besides, the Kingsway terminus in Hayes End seems well used so I'm not sure the locals would be happy with their route removed. Again, I'm unsure on a Harrow to Southall link myself but maybe there is demand. In addition, I'd implement two new routes to run from Ealing to Harrow and from Hounslow to Harrow The Ealing to Harrow link (numbered E4) would run via Uxbridge Road, Hanwell, Ealing Hospital OR via Castlebar Road, Castlebar Hill, Cleveland Road, Argyle Road, Ruislip Road East, THEN, Greenford Broadway, Greenford, Greenford Road, Whitton Avenue East, Sudbury Town, Sudbury & Harrow Road, Watford Road, Northwick Park Hospital, Sheepcote Road & Station Road The Hounslow to Harrow link (numbered H40) would run via Bath Road, Sutton Lane, Norwood Green, Windmill Lane, Uxbridge Road, Southall, Hayes, Yeading Lane, Yeading, Church Road, Northolt, Northolt Road, South Harrow, Bessborough Road I'm a little undecided which routing my E4 idea should take between Ealing & Greenford - Castlebar Road gives better reliability but Greenford Road provides a brand new link to Ealing Broadway. Windmill lane wouldn't work 3 ton weight limit on three bridges. |
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Post by thesquirrels on Jun 7, 2015 9:39:01 GMT
What's also missing is a route between Southall and Wembley via Alperton. A 105 extension would be ideal for that role. To provide new links from North London to Heathrow with Wembley being a major interchange. Given what Southall traffic can do to a bus route I wouldn't advocate doing too much to the 105. Consider that a 140 can get from the airport to Harrow Weald in less time than it takes for a 105 to make it to Greenford in spite of being half the distance again. And that's on a good day - you'd be talking about 90 minutes to get from Heathrow to Wembley. Going by tube with changes at Acton Town and Rayners Lane takes at least half an hour less and only costs fractionally more. |
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Post by l1group on Jun 7, 2015 9:58:58 GMT
In regards to a Heathrow to Ealing link and a Hounslow to Heathrow link, I'd kill three birds by extending the E2 from Brentford to Heathrow via Isleworth, Hounslow, Hounslow West & the Bath Road corridor. I wouldn't merge the E1 & E8 together - I think, for now, they are fine as they are. I'm not so sure on a Ealing to Lancaster Gate link - I mean, it doesn't make it into the main parts of Central London - if only the 159 was still terminating at Paddington...... I think what the H98 needs is deckers and that's it. An extension to Uxbridge might work but I think extending it to Harrow would be too much. Besides, the Kingsway terminus in Hayes End seems well used so I'm not sure the locals would be happy with their route removed. Again, I'm unsure on a Harrow to Southall link myself but maybe there is demand. In addition, I'd implement two new routes to run from Ealing to Harrow and from Hounslow to Harrow The Ealing to Harrow link (numbered E4) would run via Uxbridge Road, Hanwell, Ealing Hospital OR via Castlebar Road, Castlebar Hill, Cleveland Road, Argyle Road, Ruislip Road East, THEN, Greenford Broadway, Greenford, Greenford Road, Whitton Avenue East, Sudbury Town, Sudbury & Harrow Road, Watford Road, Northwick Park Hospital, Sheepcote Road & Station Road The Hounslow to Harrow link (numbered H40) would run via Bath Road, Sutton Lane, Norwood Green, Windmill Lane, Uxbridge Road, Southall, Hayes, Yeading Lane, Yeading, Church Road, Northolt, Northolt Road, South Harrow, Bessborough Road I'm a little undecided which routing my E4 idea should take between Ealing & Greenford - Castlebar Road gives better reliability but Greenford Road provides a brand new link to Ealing Broadway. Windmill lane wouldn't work 3 ton weight limit on three bridges. True. I'd rather extend the E8 than the E2, the E2 is quite a decent sized route already. E8 extended from Brent Lea via N9 to Heathrow Terminal 5 (including Heathrow Central double run), or even improve Terminal 4 buses (there are barely any buses) by extending further, but that may be too much. Ealing to Harrow: Ealing, via E10 to Greenford, then Ruislip Road, then via 140 to Harrow. Relieves northern 140 and southern E10. OR: The suggestion via Greenford Road. Unlikely to be alpha-numeric numbers anymore. Hounslow to Harrow: Did think about extending H32 (and 482 for some apparent reason) to Harrow via 120 to Northolt, then 140 to Harrow. That does relieve the 120 northern bit (and 140, again). But then thought things can be different. Instead thought the 482 to be extended to Northolt, and H32 to be extended via Uxbridge Road, Dormers Wells Lane, via 105 through Southall North to Greenford Station (or via Allenby Road direct to Ruislip Road), then via 92 and Sudbury (and H17) to Harrow. I have not thought about length of routes yet, and one of my few concepts of an indirect Ealing-Harrow link was one via 112, then Neasden, Wembley Park/The Paddocks and Kenton to Harrow There are a few double decker conversions needed, like the H98, 195(?), E8 (consistently). |
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