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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2015 11:28:06 GMT
A 105 extension would be ideal for that role. To provide new links from North London to Heathrow with Wembley being a major interchange. Given what Southall traffic can do to a bus route I wouldn't advocate doing too much to the 105. Consider that a 140 can get from the airport to Harrow Weald in less time than it takes for a 105 to make it to Greenford in spite of being half the distance again. And that's on a good day - you'd be talking about 90 minutes to get from Heathrow to Wembley. Going by tube with changes at Acton Town and Rayners Lane takes at least half an hour less and only costs fractionally more. Haven't looked in detail yet at this thread but the time it takes to Heathrow from Harrow is dire. NW needs an X26 equivalent as a minimum linking Heathrow with Harrow / Northolt / Yeading. Also Ealing Hospital is being down graded so in my opinion the 83 & 92 need to be reassessed and perhaps sent elsewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2015 11:37:59 GMT
I believe there has been a clarion call for discussion about NW London's buses. Oh well here goes - I think buses in NW London are useless. The route structure is poor, frequencies are often hopeless especially in the evening and on Sundays. The network is overly centred on two or three places (Greenford, Uxbridge, Ealing) with a need for mass changing of buses to get anywhere. There are also strategic gaps in the network making travel needlessly difficult. There are too many single deck routes which are hopelessly overloaded and TfL have barely made any changes in years and when they have it has taken about 3,000 years to make a change. There is also the "cult of Metroline" whereby you can't travel any great distance except on one of their buses. I think a bomb should be dropped on the network and TfL should start again. Discuss ....... I would very much like any other operator to open a base in the Hendon / Cricklewood / Wembley area & really challenge Metroline. Their dominance in that area is astounding really , I'm sure TfL are aware and would encourage competition, like they did when they leased WL to Abellio. Personally I would have made it a condition upon the purchase of First garages UX,ON,WJ,G and Hayes for Metroline to relinquish their section of leased EW to another operator.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 7, 2015 12:25:03 GMT
In regards to a Heathrow to Ealing link and a Hounslow to Heathrow link, I'd kill three birds by extending the E2 from Brentford to Heathrow via Isleworth, Hounslow, Hounslow West & the Bath Road corridor. I wouldn't merge the E1 & E8 together - I think, for now, they are fine as they are. I'm not so sure on a Ealing to Lancaster Gate link - I mean, it doesn't make it into the main parts of Central London - if only the 159 was still terminating at Paddington...... I think what the H98 needs is deckers and that's it. An extension to Uxbridge might work but I think extending it to Harrow would be too much. Besides, the Kingsway terminus in Hayes End seems well used so I'm not sure the locals would be happy with their route removed. Again, I'm unsure on a Harrow to Southall link myself but maybe there is demand. In addition, I'd implement two new routes to run from Ealing to Harrow and from Hounslow to Harrow The Ealing to Harrow link (numbered E4) would run via Uxbridge Road, Hanwell, Ealing Hospital OR via Castlebar Road, Castlebar Hill, Cleveland Road, Argyle Road, Ruislip Road East, THEN, Greenford Broadway, Greenford, Greenford Road, Whitton Avenue East, Sudbury Town, Sudbury & Harrow Road, Watford Road, Northwick Park Hospital, Sheepcote Road & Station Road The Hounslow to Harrow link (numbered H40) would run via Bath Road, Sutton Lane, Norwood Green, Windmill Lane, Uxbridge Road, Southall, Hayes, Yeading Lane, Yeading, Church Road, Northolt, Northolt Road, South Harrow, Bessborough Road I'm a little undecided which routing my E4 idea should take between Ealing & Greenford - Castlebar Road gives better reliability but Greenford Road provides a brand new link to Ealing Broadway. Windmill lane wouldn't work 3 ton weight limit on three bridges. Shame but never mind. As such, I'll make it more direct so it will run via Hounslow West & The Parkway meeting the original route at Hayes.
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Post by thesquirrels on Jun 7, 2015 12:59:25 GMT
Windmill lane wouldn't work 3 ton weight limit on three bridges. True. I'd rather extend the E8 than the E2, the E2 is quite a decent sized route already. E8 extended from Brent Lea via N9 to Heathrow Terminal 5 (including Heathrow Central double run), or even improve Terminal 4 buses (there are barely any buses) by extending further, but that may be too much. Ealing to Harrow: Ealing, via E10 to Greenford, then Ruislip Road, then via 140 to Harrow. Relieves northern 140 and southern E10. OR: The suggestion via Greenford Road. Unlikely to be alpha-numeric numbers anymore. Hounslow to Harrow: Did think about extending H32 (and 482 for some apparent reason) to Harrow via 120 to Northolt, then 140 to Harrow. That does relieve the 120 northern bit (and 140, again). But then thought things can be different. Instead thought the 482 to be extended to Northolt, and H32 to be extended via Uxbridge Road, Dormers Wells Lane, via 105 through Southall North to Greenford Station (or via Allenby Road direct to Ruislip Road), then via 92 and Sudbury (and H17) to Harrow. I have not thought about length of routes yet, and one of my few concepts of an indirect Ealing-Harrow link was one via 112, then Neasden, Wembley Park/The Paddocks and Kenton to Harrow There are a few double decker conversions needed, like the H98, 195(?), E8 (consistently). Suspect you wouldn't get anything bigger than the current vehicles around the Charville Lane end of the 195. Adelphi Crescent (eastern arm especially) and Adelphi Way would be the main obstacles, Metrobuses managed this on the hourly 207A (now U7) in the 90s but with a PVR of 1 it wasn't going to run into any other big buses.. 195 was RW midibuses. Spent 15 minutes stuck on Adelphi Way a couple of months ago because of a badly parked car, it doesn't take much.
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Post by jrussa on Jun 7, 2015 16:02:56 GMT
Route NX1: Edgware to Heathrow Airport Calling at: Edgware Bus Station (via Watford Way and Barnet By Pass to) Hendon Central (via Vivian Avenue and A504 to) Hendon Station (via West Hendon Broadway, Cool Oak Lane, Wood Lane, Church Road, A4008 and A4009) Wembley Park Station (via A404 -HarroW Road) Wembley Stadium Station (via A404 and North Circular Road to) Stonebridge Park Station (via North Circular Road, Abbey Road, Park Royal Road to) North Acton Station (via Noel Road, Queens Drive and Madeley Road to) Ealing Broadway Station, Haven Green (via B455 and Ealing Green to) South Ealing Station (via South Ealing Road. Challis Rd and Eastbourne Road, Windmill Road and Boston Manor Road to) Brentford Station (via Great West Road - M4 to Hounslow Bus Stn/Garage (via Staines Road, Bell Road, Bath Road) Hounslow West Station (NON-STOP to Heathrow Central via A4 and Tunnel Road East) Heathrow Central Airport (T1, 2, and 3) Journey time: 1hr 40 mins to 2hrs 10 mins Proposed Timetable: 4-7am and 9pm - 1am = Every 60 mins 7sm till 9pm = Every 30 minutes I proposed this route a few months ago! A couple of more stops could be added to entice more passengers... It could also go to Terminal 5 BENEFITS: 1. It would assist Route 83 between Wembley and Ealing Broadway 2. Links Ealing and Heathrow and vice versa 3. Links Edgware to Ealing Broadway and vice versa 4. Links Hendon to Ealing Broadway and vice versa 5. Connects Hendon with the West of London (Hounslow and Brentford) and even Hendon to Heathrow 6. Ealing Broadway to Hounslow link 7. Links Edgware and Hendon with the Acton area. It would be interesting if it was operated by Telling Golden Miller (Arriva) from their Heathrow depot.
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Post by routew15 on Jun 7, 2015 18:15:37 GMT
I thought I'd give my two cents on this extremely relevant and valid topic. My focus was trying to untangle the single decker routes in Harlesden. However I have looked at other parts of West South West London. In some cases one route has been placed with two. I based most of these changes on observations that I have done when in West London and i think the changes will take passengers directly to places they need to go.
Rethink 206- Discontinued (replaced by Route A & B) 226- Discontinued (replaced by Route B & C) 228- Extended to Stonebridge Park (via Abbey Road and North Circular Road) 228- Rerouted via Du Cane Road and Wood Lane 228- Rerouted via Kensal Road and Westbourne Park (instead of Harrow Road) 260- Routing between North Acton and Starch Green swapped with the 266 266- Routing between North Acton and Starch Green swapped with the 260 283- Diverted away from East Acton instead via North Pole Road, Highever Road, Sutton Way, Dalgarno Way, Shrewsbury Street, Rootes Drive, Barlby Road to Ladbroke Grove, Sainsbury's 305- Discontinued (replaced by Route A) 440- Discontinued (replaced by bus routes C, 228 & E9) E9- Extended to Chiswick, Power Road via The Mall, Uxbridge Road, Acton, Winchester Road, Bollo Bridge Road, Bollo Lane, Acton Lane, Fishers Lane, Chiswick High Road, Sutton Lane North, Wellesley Road and Oxford Road North H20- Extended to Toplocks Estate via Lampton Road, Heston Road, Norwood Road, Merrick Road, Havelock Road, Hunt Road, Hillary Road, Havelock Road, McNair Road and Post Road,
New Routes Route A- Edgware Station Bus Station - Station Road - Hale Lane - Mill Hill Green Man - Deans Lane - Orange Hill Road - Watling Avenue - Burnt Oak Station - Burnt Oak Broadway - Stag Lane - Princes Avenue - Honeypot Lane - Kingsbury Circle - Fryent Way - The Paddocks - Forty Lane - Bridge Road - Wembley Park Station - Wembley Park Drive - Fulton Road - Rutherford Way - Engineers Way - Wembley Trading Estate - Great Central Way - Brent Park Tesco - Brentfield Road - Knatchbull Road - Harlesden Station - Acton Lane - Station Road - High Street Harlesden - Station Road - Willesden Junction Station - Old Oak Lane - Old Oak Common Lane - Old Oak Common High Speed 2 Station (replacement of 206 & 305) (Frequency- M-S: 15 mins, S: 20 mins, Eve: 20 mins, Late Eve: 30 mins)
Route B- Ealing Broadway Station - Haven Green - Eaton Rise - Montpelier Road - Birkdale Road - Lynwood Road - Brunswick Road - Hanger Lane - Hanger Lane Station - Twyford Abbey Road - Lakeside Drive (for Park Royal Station) - Coronation Road - Central Middlesex Hospital Bus Station - Acton Lane - Harlesden Station - Acton Lane - High Street Harlesden - Park Parade - Harlesden Road - Robson Avenue - Willesden Community Hospital - Harlesden Road - Donnington Road - Peter Avenue - Chambers Lane - Sidmouth Road - Brondesbury Park - Brondesbury Park Station - Salusbury Road - Queens Park Station - Brondesbury Road - Kilburn High Road - Kilburn High Road Station - Cambridge Avenue - Kilburn Park Station (Combination of 226 & 206) (Frequency- M-S: 12 mins, S: 20 mins, Eve: 20 mins)
Route C- Golders Green Station Bus Station - Hodford Road - The Vale - Hendon Way - Pennine Drive - Claremont Road - Cricklewood Station - Cricklewood Lane - Chichele Road - Anson Road - Hamilton Road - Dollis Hill Station - Burnley Road - Dudden Hill Lane - Willesden High Road - Pound Lane - Robson Avenue - Park Parade - Harlesden High Street - Acton Lane - Central Middlesex Hospital Bus Station- Park Royal Road - Minerva Road - Chase Road - Gypsy Corner - Noel Road - North Acton Playing Fields - Noel Road - Acton High Street (Replacement of 226 & 440)(Frequency- M-S: 15 mins, S: 20 mins, Eve: 20 mins)
Route L- Perivale East Bus Garage - Alperton Lane - Manor Farm Road - Athlon Road - Alperton Sainsbury's - Glacier Way - Alperton Station - Mount Pleasant - Beresford Avenue - North Circular Road - Stonebridge Park Station - North Circular Road - Brent Park - Neasden Shopping Centre - Neasden Lane - Neasden, Birchen Grove (Frequency- M-S: every 20 mins, S: every 30 min, Eve: every 30 mins, No service after 2200)(Allows the 224 to be diverted away from Alperton Sainsbury's)
Route W- Harrow - Bessborough Road - Sudbury Hill - Harrow Road - Bridgewater Road - Ealing Road - Hanger Lane - Madeley Road - Ealing Broadway - Ealing Green - South Ealing Road - Popes Lane - Gunnersbury Lane - Bollo Lane - Chiswick Business Park (Frequency- M-F: every 15 mins, Sat: every 12 mins, Sun: every 20 mins, Eve: every 30 mins)(Brand New link To Ealing from Harrow) Or Route X- Harrow - Bessborough Road - Northolt Road - Whittington Avenue West - Oldfield Lane - Greenford - Greenford Road - Greenford, Red Lion, Greenford Road - Uxbridge Road - Hanwell Broadway - Uxbridge Road - Ealing Broadway - The Mall - Gunnersbury Avenue - Chiswick High Road - Chiswick Business Park (Frequency- M-S: every 12 mins, Sun: every 20 mins, Eve: every 30 mins)(Brand new links to Harrow from Ealing)
Route Y- Ealing Broadway - West Ealing - Hanwell - Boston Manor - Brentford Ealing Broadway Station - The Broadway - New Broadway - Uxbridge Road - West Ealing - Uxbridge Road - Hanwell - Boston Road - Boston Manor Station - Boston Manor Road - Brentford Station - Boston Manor Road - Half Acre - Brentford High Street - London Road - Isleworth Station - London Road - Hounslow High Street - Hanworth Road - Grove Road - Bell Road - Bath Road - Hounslow West Station - Bath Road - Cranford - Bath Road - Harlington Corner - Bath Road - Heathrow Airport North - Tunnel Road - Heathrow Central Bus Station (Extended version of the E8)(Frequency- M-S: every 7-8 mins, S: 12 mins, Eve: 12 mins)(Brand New links to Heathrow from Hounslow, Brentford High Street, Hanwell and Ealing)
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Post by LX09FBJ on Jun 7, 2015 18:16:33 GMT
I believe there has been a clarion call for discussion about NW London's buses. Oh well here goes - I think buses in NW London are useless. The route structure is poor, frequencies are often hopeless especially in the evening and on Sundays. The network is overly centred on two or three places (Greenford, Uxbridge, Ealing) with a need for mass changing of buses to get anywhere. There are also strategic gaps in the network making travel needlessly difficult. There are too many single deck routes which are hopelessly overloaded and TfL have barely made any changes in years and when they have it has taken about 3,000 years to make a change. There is also the "cult of Metroline" whereby you can't travel any great distance except on one of their buses. I think a bomb should be dropped on the network and TfL should start again. Discuss ....... I would very much like any other operator to open a base in the Hendon / Cricklewood / Wembley area & really challenge Metroline. Their dominance in that area is astounding really , I'm sure TfL are aware and would encourage competition, like they did when they leased WL to Abellio. Personally I would have made it a condition upon the purchase of First garages UX,ON,WJ,G and Hayes for Metroline to relinquish their section of leased EW to another operator. London United/Sovereign and Tower Transit are the other big operators in that area but it's safe to say that West London is 'Metroline country'. In regards to the sale of First, I would have liked to have seen of the garages, including NP and DM be sold to Tower Transit, so that a) all the First garages would still have been together, b) the dominance of Metroline might have been averted, c) more variety in the area, d) it would look more 'right', e) Tower Transit had more opportunities to bid for routes in other areas (e.g. Ealing, Uxbridge, Romford) and e) Five year old E400s could have been used more effectively (sent to Westbourne Park instead of Leicester- still the Tridents are much more interesting.) Do like the idea of giving up half of EW though, would imagine that London Sovereign could have taken it.
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 7, 2015 18:30:36 GMT
Route NX1: Edgware to Heathrow Airport Calling at: Edgware Bus Station (via Watford Way and Barnet By Pass to) Hendon Central (via Vivian Avenue and A504 to) Hendon Station (via West Hendon Broadway, Cool Oak Lane, Wood Lane, Church Road, A4008 and A4009) Wembley Park Station (via A404 -Harrow Road) - traffic nightmareWembley Stadium Station (via A404 and North Circular Road to) - traffic nightmareStonebridge Park Station (via North Circular Road, Abbey Road, Park Royal Road to) - traffic nightmareNorth Acton Station (via Noel Road, Queens Drive and Madeley Road to) Ealing Broadway Station, Haven Green (via B455 and Ealing Green to) South Ealing Station (via South Ealing Road. Challis Rd and Eastbourne Road, Windmill Road and Boston Manor Road to) Brentford Station (via Great West Road - M4 to Hounslow Bus Stn/Garage (via Staines Road, Bell Road, Bath Road) Hounslow West Station (NON-STOP to Heathrow Central via A4 and Tunnel Road East) Heathrow Central Airport (T1, 2, and 3) Journey time: 1hr 40 mins to 2hrs 10 mins Proposed Timetable: 4-7am and 9pm - 1am = Every 60 mins 7sm till 9pm = Every 30 minutes I proposed this route a few months ago! A couple of more stops could be added to entice more passengers... It could also go to Terminal 5 BENEFITS: 1. It would assist Route 83 between Wembley and Ealing Broadway 2. Links Ealing and Heathrow and vice versa 3. Links Edgware to Ealing Broadway and vice versa 4. Links Hendon to Ealing Broadway and vice versa 5. Connects Hendon with the West of London (Hounslow and Brentford) and even Hendon to Heathrow 6. Ealing Broadway to Hounslow link 7. Links Edgware and Hendon with the Acton area. It would be interesting if it was operated by Telling Golden Miller (Arriva) from their Heathrow depot. Would be good to see, except the traffic blackspots the route could potentially pass thru - It would need quite a high PVR - I'd go for 40 vehicles. But please, no A4 sheets for blinds
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Post by routew15 on Jun 7, 2015 18:57:37 GMT
Haven't looked in detail yet at this thread but the time it takes to Heathrow from Harrow is dire. NW needs an X26 equivalent as a minimum linking Heathrow with Harrow / Northolt / Yeading. Also Ealing Hospital is being down graded so in my opinion the 83 & 92 need to be reassessed and perhaps sent elsewhere. Totally agree with this. Orbital links by rail are pretty much nonexistent in West London. So I think a express Bus would be a cheap solution to this problem. I'd extend that express route to Edgware, making the route Edgware to Heathrow calling at: Canons Park Station, Harrow & Wealdstone Station, Harrow Bus Station, South Harrow, Station Parade for Northolt Park, Northolt Station, Yeading/ White Hart, The Grapes, Clayton Road for Hayes & Harlington Station, Manor Lane for Harlington High Street, Heathrow Central Bus Station. It's approximately 21 miles long so the same as the X26 In my opinion the 83 should either stay at Ealing Hospital or be cut back to West Ealing.
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Post by northken on Jun 7, 2015 18:59:30 GMT
I thought I'd give my two cents on this extremely relevant and valid topic. My focus was trying to untangle the single decker routes in Harlesden. However I have looked at other parts of West South West London. In some cases one route has been placed with two. I based most of these changes on observations that I have done when in West London and i think the changes will take passengers directly to places they need to go. Rethink206- Discontinued (replaced by Route A & B) 226- Discontinued (replaced by Route B & C) 228- Extended to Stonebridge Park (via Abbey Road and North Circular Road) 228- Rerouted via Du Cane Road and Wood Lane 228- Rerouted via Kensal Road and Westbourne Park (instead of Harrow Road) 260- Routing between North Acton and Starch Green swapped with the 266 266- Routing between North Acton and Starch Green swapped with the 260 283- Diverted away from East Acton instead via North Pole Road, Highever Road, Sutton Way, Dalgarno Way, Shrewsbury Street, Rootes Drive, Barlby Road to Ladbroke Grove, Sainsbury's 305- Discontinued (replaced by Route A) 440- Discontinued (replaced by bus routes C, 228 & E9) E9- Extended to Chiswick, Power Road via The Mall, Uxbridge Road, Acton, Winchester Road, Bollo Bridge Road, Bollo Lane, Acton Lane, Fishers Lane, Chiswick High Road, Sutton Lane North, Wellesley Road and Oxford Road North H20- Extended to Toplocks Estate via Lampton Road, Heston Road, Norwood Road, Merrick Road, Havelock Road, Hunt Road, Hillary Road, Havelock Road, McNair Road and Post Road, I don't think there is enough stand space at Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury's, and North Pole Road is frequently jammed in the peaks. Although I think the 72 would be better to extend via Higlever Road as it has the 272 (and your new 228) to cover its routeing, plus the 283 takes too long to reach anywhere decent e.g.Hammersmith.
Your new 228 will be very 'narrow' (so pretty short distance) between the Ladbroke Grove and East Acton/ Du Cane Road sections, and so a bit pointless to most people who could just take your new 283 or the 295/316 to White City, or the 187 to Harlesden. I even think the route should be discontinued as your route A will easily cover the Old Oak Common to Willesden Junction/Harlesden section, with maybe a different route used to cover your new section to Stonebridge Park.
I do quite like (or lack knowledge of) the majority of the rest of your plans.
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Post by LX09FBJ on Jun 7, 2015 19:00:42 GMT
NW needs an X26 equivalent as a minimum linking Heathrow with Harrow / Northolt / Yeading. It's safe to say that many areas could benefit from such services, the X26 is not just used by airport passengers, but people in the localities it serves. Another type of route I'd like to see are more of the X68-style services running, such as X22 running between Piccadilly Circus and Richmond: Running the same as route 22 to Hyde Park Corner Then non-stop to Putney Heath and then all stops via N22 to Richmond (and possibly Fulwell) Running every 15 minutes between 6:30am and 9:00am northbound and between 4:30pm and 7:15pm southbound Also Ealing Hospital is being down graded so in my opinion the 83 & 92 need to be reassessed and perhaps sent elsewhere. I would suggest Southall but the traffic in Wembley and Alperton is already enough for these routes to deal with, and the 83 also has to deal with the North Circular too which during rush hour and when events take place at Wembley is a right pain (I remember it took about three hours to get from Hampton to Highgate in the car once, about half of which was getting from Gunnersbury Avenue to Neasden) so extending the 83 there is a big no-no. The 92 might be able cope. Wembley-Southall is another link which would be rather useful I think. I'd rather extend the E8 than the E2, the E2 is quite a decent sized route already. E8 extended from Brent Lea via N9 to Heathrow Terminal 5 (including Heathrow Central double run), or even improve Terminal 4 buses (there are barely any buses) by extending further, but that may be too much. I do agree that an E8 extension should be considered over the E2 but if it's decided the E8 goes to Heathrow then an Hounslow extension for the E2 should also be considered. There should be the following changes around Heathrow I think 1) 24 hour service on the 490, this would link Richmond to Heathrow at night. To help passengers to get to Terminals 1/2/3, the 285 can be timed in such a way that when a Heathrow-bound 490 arrives, a Heathrow-bound 285 arrives shortly afterwards to pick up any connecting passengers. The same also would apply to Kingston-bound 285s and Richmond-bound 490s 2) A new service for the public, similar to how the old H30 used to run, serving all three interchanges at Heathrow and Hatton Cross. Runs every 15 minutes during the day, every day and hourly at night. 3) extend the A10 and/or U3 via the Northern Perimiter Road East, Eastern Perimiter Road, Envoy Avenue, Hatton Cross and Southern Perimter Road to Terminal 4 and the 105, 111, 140 or 285 plus the X26 to Terminal 5 via Northern Premiter Road West and Western Perimiter Road to Heathrow Terminal 5. The stopping service extended would serve all stops while the X26 would run non-stop to T5. I would also add a night service on the X26 running from AV. Both services would do a double run via Heathrow Central There are a few double decker conversions needed, like the H98, 195(?), E8 (consistently). H98 should get double deckers, if the current trend carries on until 2018. I'm guessing the H22 will end up with some of DE109-128 with the electric busses moved to H37. E8 will hopefully get DDs as I hope the 235.
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Post by routew15 on Jun 7, 2015 19:34:27 GMT
I don't think there is enough stand space at Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury's, and North Pole Road is frequently jammed in the peaks. Although I think the 72 would be better to extend via Higlever Road as it has the 272 (and your new 228) to cover its routeing, plus the 283 takes too long to reach anywhere decent e.g.Hammersmith.
Your new 228 will be very 'narrow' (so pretty short distance) between the Ladbroke Grove and East Acton/ Du Cane Road sections, and so a bit pointless to most people who could just take your new 283 or the 295/316 to White City, or the 187 to Harlesden. I even think the route should be discontinued as your route A will easily cover the Old Oak Common to Willesden Junction/Harlesden section, with maybe a different route used to cover your new section to Stonebridge Park.
I do quite like (or lack knowledge of) the majority of the rest of your plans. Totally recognise what you're saying. On your point about the 228 short distance, Du Cane Road to Ladbroke Road is a mile away so I don't if I'd describe that as short, but can see the point your making. Diverting the 228 at East Acton was only to help maintain the 2up, 3down of bus routes along Du Cane Road, however upon reflection this idea can be shelved. I reviewed the 228 but I couldn't see a reason to axe it, I only tweaked it to replace routes here and there. Taking into account your point on North Pole Road, I may need to go back to the drawing board for this idea. I didn't realise the 283 had such a high frequency, could be quite a challenge sending it around Sutton Way Estate or North Pole Road.
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Post by rmz19 on Jun 7, 2015 20:17:30 GMT
I thought I'd give my two cents on this extremely relevant and valid topic. My focus was trying to untangle the single decker routes in Harlesden. However I have looked at other parts of West South West London. In some cases one route has been placed with two. I based most of these changes on observations that I have done when in West London and i think the changes will take passengers directly to places they need to go. Rethink206- Discontinued (replaced by Route A & B) 226- Discontinued (replaced by Route B & C) 228- Extended to Stonebridge Park (via Abbey Road and North Circular Road) 228- Rerouted via Du Cane Road and Wood Lane 228- Rerouted via Kensal Road and Westbourne Park (instead of Harrow Road) 260- Routing between North Acton and Starch Green swapped with the 266 266- Routing between North Acton and Starch Green swapped with the 260 283- Diverted away from East Acton instead via North Pole Road, Highever Road, Sutton Way, Dalgarno Way, Shrewsbury Street, Rootes Drive, Barlby Road to Ladbroke Grove, Sainsbury's 305- Discontinued (replaced by Route A) 440- Discontinued (replaced by bus routes C, 228 & E9) E9- Extended to Chiswick, Power Road via The Mall, Uxbridge Road, Acton, Winchester Road, Bollo Bridge Road, Bollo Lane, Acton Lane, Fishers Lane, Chiswick High Road, Sutton Lane North, Wellesley Road and Oxford Road North H20- Extended to Toplocks Estate via Lampton Road, Heston Road, Norwood Road, Merrick Road, Havelock Road, Hunt Road, Hillary Road, Havelock Road, McNair Road and Post Road, New RoutesRoute A- Edgware Station Bus Station - Station Road - Hale Lane - Mill Hill Green Man - Deans Lane - Orange Hill Road - Watling Avenue - Burnt Oak Station - Burnt Oak Broadway - Stag Lane - Princes Avenue - Honeypot Lane - Kingsbury Circle - Fryent Way - The Paddocks - Forty Lane - Bridge Road - Wembley Park Station - Wembley Park Drive - Fulton Road - Rutherford Way - Engineers Way - Wembley Trading Estate - Great Central Way - Brent Park Tesco - Brentfield Road - Knatchbull Road - Harlesden Station - Acton Lane - Station Road - High Street Harlesden - Station Road - Willesden Junction Station - Old Oak Lane - Old Oak Common Lane - Old Oak Common High Speed 2 Station (replacement of 206 & 305) (Frequency- M-S: 15 mins, S: 20 mins, Eve: 20 mins, Late Eve: 30 mins) Route B- Ealing Broadway Station - Haven Green - Eaton Rise - Montpelier Road - Birkdale Road - Lynwood Road - Brunswick Road - Hanger Lane - Hanger Lane Station - Twyford Abbey Road - Lakeside Drive (for Park Royal Station) - Coronation Road - Central Middlesex Hospital Bus Station - Acton Lane - Harlesden Station - Acton Lane - High Street Harlesden - Park Parade - Harlesden Road - Robson Avenue - Willesden Community Hospital - Harlesden Road - Donnington Road - Peter Avenue - Chambers Lane - Sidmouth Road - Brondesbury Park - Brondesbury Park Station - Salusbury Road - Queens Park Station - Brondesbury Road - Kilburn High Road - Kilburn High Road Station - Cambridge Avenue - Kilburn Park Station (Combination of 226 & 206) (Frequency- M-S: 12 mins, S: 20 mins, Eve: 20 mins) To be honest the 228 is hardly used well, apart from being handy along the entire length of Ladbroke Grove I never really understood its introduction in the first place. It's pretty much a second 187 with a complicated route, axeing it completely wouldn't cause any significant issues. I can see the logic behind your interesting 206 proposal, the issue however is Route B would mirror the 187 to an extent i.e. going past Queen's Park, Harlesden and Central Middlesex Hospital. Perhaps the 187 could be extended to Ealing Broadway from Central Middlesex Hospital via Route B, assisting the 226 along the common section.
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Post by routew15 on Jun 7, 2015 21:33:24 GMT
I thought I'd give my two cents on this extremely relevant and valid topic. My focus was trying to untangle the single decker routes in Harlesden. However I have looked at other parts of West South West London. In some cases one route has been placed with two. I based most of these changes on observations that I have done when in West London and i think the changes will take passengers directly to places they need to go. Rethink206- Discontinued (replaced by Route A & B) 226- Discontinued (replaced by Route B & C) 228- Extended to Stonebridge Park (via Abbey Road and North Circular Road) 228- Rerouted via Du Cane Road and Wood Lane 228- Rerouted via Kensal Road and Westbourne Park (instead of Harrow Road) 260- Routing between North Acton and Starch Green swapped with the 266 266- Routing between North Acton and Starch Green swapped with the 260 283- Diverted away from East Acton instead via North Pole Road, Highever Road, Sutton Way, Dalgarno Way, Shrewsbury Street, Rootes Drive, Barlby Road to Ladbroke Grove, Sainsbury's 305- Discontinued (replaced by Route A) 440- Discontinued (replaced by bus routes C, 228 & E9) E9- Extended to Chiswick, Power Road via The Mall, Uxbridge Road, Acton, Winchester Road, Bollo Bridge Road, Bollo Lane, Acton Lane, Fishers Lane, Chiswick High Road, Sutton Lane North, Wellesley Road and Oxford Road North H20- Extended to Toplocks Estate via Lampton Road, Heston Road, Norwood Road, Merrick Road, Havelock Road, Hunt Road, Hillary Road, Havelock Road, McNair Road and Post Road, New RoutesRoute A- Edgware Station Bus Station - Station Road - Hale Lane - Mill Hill Green Man - Deans Lane - Orange Hill Road - Watling Avenue - Burnt Oak Station - Burnt Oak Broadway - Stag Lane - Princes Avenue - Honeypot Lane - Kingsbury Circle - Fryent Way - The Paddocks - Forty Lane - Bridge Road - Wembley Park Station - Wembley Park Drive - Fulton Road - Rutherford Way - Engineers Way - Wembley Trading Estate - Great Central Way - Brent Park Tesco - Brentfield Road - Knatchbull Road - Harlesden Station - Acton Lane - Station Road - High Street Harlesden - Station Road - Willesden Junction Station - Old Oak Lane - Old Oak Common Lane - Old Oak Common High Speed 2 Station (replacement of 206 & 305) (Frequency- M-S: 15 mins, S: 20 mins, Eve: 20 mins, Late Eve: 30 mins) Route B- Ealing Broadway Station - Haven Green - Eaton Rise - Montpelier Road - Birkdale Road - Lynwood Road - Brunswick Road - Hanger Lane - Hanger Lane Station - Twyford Abbey Road - Lakeside Drive (for Park Royal Station) - Coronation Road - Central Middlesex Hospital Bus Station - Acton Lane - Harlesden Station - Acton Lane - High Street Harlesden - Park Parade - Harlesden Road - Robson Avenue - Willesden Community Hospital - Harlesden Road - Donnington Road - Peter Avenue - Chambers Lane - Sidmouth Road - Brondesbury Park - Brondesbury Park Station - Salusbury Road - Queens Park Station - Brondesbury Road - Kilburn High Road - Kilburn High Road Station - Cambridge Avenue - Kilburn Park Station (Combination of 226 & 206) (Frequency- M-S: 12 mins, S: 20 mins, Eve: 20 mins) To be honest the 228 is hardly used well, apart from being handy along the entire length of Ladbroke Grove I never really understood its introduction in the first place. It's pretty much a second 187 with a complicated route, axeing it completely wouldn't cause any significant issues. I can see the logic behind your interesting 206 proposal, the issue however is Route B would mirror the 187 to an extent i.e. going past Queen's Park, Harlesden and Central Middlesex Hospital. Perhaps the 187 could be extended to Ealing Broadway from Central Middlesex Hospital via Route B, assisting the 226 along the common section. As I mentioned in a previous post I couldn't see a reason to replace it, however the point you make is valid. I think the parrallel between the 187 and Route B is minor, it's not as parrallel as the 204 and 79. Howver I disagree with extending the 187 alongside the 226, I don think there is enough passenger demand to have two routes heading to virtually the same place. Also there's been a history of one low frequency routes in the Montpelier area (PR1 & 226) so to have two routes may ruffle some feathers.
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Post by l1group on Jun 7, 2015 21:39:08 GMT
Also Ealing Hospital is being down graded so in my opinion the 83 & 92 need to be reassessed and perhaps sent elsewhere. I would suggest Southall but the traffic in Wembley and Alperton is already enough for these routes to deal with, and the 83 also has to deal with the North Circular too which during rush hour and when events take place at Wembley is a right pain (I remember it took about three hours to get from Hampton to Highgate in the car once, about half of which was getting from Gunnersbury Avenue to Neasden) so extending the 83 there is a big no-no. The 92 might be able cope. Wembley-Southall is another link which would be rather useful I think. 83 - extending it further is a no-go. The most 83 could possibly do is an extension to Windmill Park where the larger retail is. Ealing Hospital is still, remember, a hospital with an urgent care centre, so it is still a notable destination. I'd rather not touch the 92, or the 83 any more than what I suggested. I'd rather extend the E8 than the E2, the E2 is quite a decent sized route already. E8 extended from Brent Lea via N9 to Heathrow Terminal 5 (including Heathrow Central double run), or even improve Terminal 4 buses (there are barely any buses) by extending further, but that may be too much. I do agree that an E8 extension should be considered over the E2 but if it's decided the E8 goes to Heathrow then an Hounslow extension for the E2 should also be considered. There should be the following changes around Heathrow I think 1) 24 hour service on the 490, this would link Richmond to Heathrow at night. To help passenger to get to Terminals 1/2/3, the 285 can be timed in such a way that when a Heathrow-bound 490 arrives, a Heathrow-bound 285 arrives shortly afterwards to pick up any connecting passengers. The same also would apply to Kingston-bound 285s and Heathrow-bound 490s 2) A new service for the public, similar to how the old H50 used to run, serving all three interchanges at Heathrow and Hatton Cross. Runs every 15 minutes during the day, every day and hourly at night. 3) extend the A10 and/or U3 via the Northern Perimiter Road East, Eastern Perimiter Road, Envoy Avenue, Hatton Cross and Southern Perimter Road to Terminal 4 and the 105, 111, 140 or 285 plus the X26 to Terminal 5 via Northern Premiter Road West and Western Perimiter Road to Heathrow Terminal 5. The stopping service extended would serve all stops while the X26 would run non-stop to T5. I would also add a night service on the X26 running from AV. Both services would do a double run via Heathrow Central You mean the H30. Reintroduce the H30. Those Darts were good! 24hr service on the 490 sounds good. For night time, I'd extend the N9 to Heathrow Terminal 4 from T5 as well. Or indeed separate. Terminal 4 needs buses, it's ruddy hard to get there, especially early morning. The Heathrow Central lot to Terminal 5 was I think initially thought of when T5 was planned, but not executed. If a H30 isn't reintroduced, one of the routes should be extended during the day to Terminal 5 from Central, even with free trains. Just the walking. The sheer corridor walking. I'd say the 111, because it's the least busiest out of the lot. Only one route is needed to be extended to T5 from Central. The 441 does count, but it's too infrequent.
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