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Post by snoggle on May 9, 2019 21:19:15 GMT
In today's eccentric class 710 working a unit went from Willesden depot via the NLL to Stratford, looped round to Bow then crossed all the tracks and went down the Gas Factory junction line (that curves beside the DLR at Bow Church) and then into Fenchurch Street. It then came back out and headed back to Stratford then down to Forest Gate over to Woodgrange Park on the connecting line and then to Barking. It then reversed at Barking and followed its outward route to Stratford and is trundling back to Willesden depot via the NLL as I type this. Allegedly it was for electrical testing (as C2C will eventually get a small fleet of Aventras) but a very weird working with some unexpected pathing. Open Train Times maps are far too compelling - fascinating watching how the service is managed by the signallers.
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Post by redbus on May 9, 2019 22:17:49 GMT
In today's eccentric class 710 working a unit went from Willesden depot via the NLL to Stratford, looped round to Bow then crossed all the tracks and went down the Gas Factory junction line (that curves beside the DLR at Bow Church) and then into Fenchurch Street. It then came back out and headed back to Stratford then down to Forest Gate over to Woodgrange Park on the connecting line and then to Barking. It then reversed at Barking and followed its outward route to Stratford and is trundling back to Willesden depot via the NLL as I type this. Allegedly it was for electrical testing (as C2C will eventually get a small fleet of Aventras) but a very weird working with some unexpected pathing. Open Train Times maps are far too compelling - fascinating watching how the service is managed by the signallers. All very good and well, but I say what about priority 1 the GOBLIN!!!! What has happened to the driver training? What is the plan to get these trains into passenger service as soon as possible? This seems far more important to me than electrical testing for C2C. By all means do the electrical testing, but it needs to be shown that it is full speed ahead to get the trains working on the GOBLIN and whilst all efforts may be in play to get the 710s into passenger service, that doesn't seem obvious.
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Post by snoggle on May 10, 2019 9:33:13 GMT
All very good and well, but I say what about priority 1 the GOBLIN!!!! What has happened to the driver training? What is the plan to get these trains into passenger service as soon as possible? This seems far more important to me than electrical testing for C2C. By all means do the electrical testing, but it needs to be shown that it is full speed ahead to get the trains working on the GOBLIN and whilst all efforts may be in play to get the 710s into passenger service, that doesn't seem obvious. All I have seen evidence of is that driver training runs are continuing on the GOBLIN. I've not seen or read anything else. I don't even know if the trains are handed over to Arriva Rail London. If they aren't then no great surprise that Bombardier opted to run one into Fenchurch Street as they still own them!! No one can exactly complain can they?
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Post by rif153 on May 10, 2019 19:32:15 GMT
To regular GOBLIN users on here. Have you noticed a fall in patronage because people have lost faith in TFL over the debacle or perhaps the reduced frequency cancels this out. Either way what have you noticed?
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Post by snoggle on May 10, 2019 20:00:42 GMT
To regular GOBLIN users on here. Have you noticed a fall in patronage because people have lost faith in TFL over the debacle or perhaps the reduced frequency cancels this out. Either way what have you noticed? I've only used it a couple of times off peak on the reduced frequency. The train was reasonably loaded with people on and off at every stop (from Bhr Rd to G Oak). I've seen a couple of PM peak trains from a passing bus (on Ferry Lane) and the trains have been well loaded. None of that answers your question as I don't have any basis for comparison due to my infrequent use. My hunch is that those people who could adjust their travel around the revised timetable to still use the route have done so. A look at Realtimetrains shows peak trains (in the busiest direction) still experience a slight amount of late running due to longer stop times as people squeeze on board. This suggests the trains are still very well loaded - possibly full - although the delays are nothing like as bad as when it was 2 car diesels. Their peak time dwell times were awful. The 378s are also much faster than the 172s so they can easily make up time if any is lost.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 10, 2019 20:08:37 GMT
To regular GOBLIN users on here. Have you noticed a fall in patronage because people have lost faith in TFL over the debacle or perhaps the reduced frequency cancels this out. Either way what have you noticed? My experience is pretty similar to that of snoggle I only use it if is already sitting at the platform and will depart soon as it's quite a convenient way to Warren Street as opposed to squashing onto the Central Line. The 378s all the time I've used them carry loads a 172 couldn't, however I've only been bursting twice and both were in the evening peak. However should patronage have remained exactly as it was the 378s would be borderline rammed solid so there's no doubting there's been a decline. I imagine there's many people like me who do actually use it to commute to Central London as opposed to going around it so would just use other ways in like the District, c2c, TfL Rail etc.
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Post by redbus on May 10, 2019 21:44:24 GMT
To regular GOBLIN users on here. Have you noticed a fall in patronage because people have lost faith in TFL over the debacle or perhaps the reduced frequency cancels this out. Either way what have you noticed? I've only used it a couple of times off peak on the reduced frequency. The train was reasonably loaded with people on and off at every stop (from Bhr Rd to G Oak). I've seen a couple of PM peak trains from a passing bus (on Ferry Lane) and the trains have been well loaded. None of that answers your question as I don't have any basis for comparison due to my infrequent use. My hunch is that those people who could adjust their travel around the revised timetable to still use the route have done so. A look at Realtimetrains shows peak trains (in the busiest direction) still experience a slight amount of late running due to longer stop times as people squeeze on board. This suggests the trains are still very well loaded - possibly full - although the delays are nothing like as bad as when it was 2 car diesels. Their peak time dwell times were awful. The 378s are also much faster than the 172s so they can easily make up time if any is lost. With four carriages and many more doors I would expect the dwell times for a 378 to be less than a 172.
As others have suggested, some will have deserted the service and who can blame them. It will just come to the inconvenience and other possible ways to travel. Don't forget people were 'happy' to cram onto the 172s, so having a full train is no barrier to people using this service. I don't have enough direct experience to put any figures on it.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 11, 2019 19:31:03 GMT
Not too sure if this is a recent change or not but the 710 test runs seem to be running into Barking Platform 1 now. 710261 did spend quite a while resting in Platform 1 today resulting in a normal LO service being routed into Platform 7. flic.kr/p/S6Mpm6
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Post by richard on May 11, 2019 20:20:38 GMT
sounds promising!
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Post by snoggle on May 11, 2019 22:09:16 GMT
sounds promising! I received that tweet earlier this evening. I'm a tad sceptical but that's my normal stance. There are still a fair number of training runs that are not being run for whatever reason. 3 out of 5 didn't run today (Saturday) and it was similarly variable last week. Obviously I don't know if this was down to shortage of trainers / drivers to be trained or rolling stock failure. I suspect a bit of a mix of all three. At least the 710s now seem to be allowed out without a diesel loco tagging along behind.
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Post by redbus on May 12, 2019 10:53:49 GMT
Is it my imagination or has more progress been made with the 710s in the last three months than the previous year? I get the impression that everyone is now really pulling their finger out. My suspicion is they didn't do this in the previous year - why - one word - Crossrail!!
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Post by snoggle on May 12, 2019 11:24:07 GMT
Is it my imagination or has more progress been made with the 710s in the last three months than the previous year? I get the impression that everyone is now really pulling their finger out. My suspicion is they didn't do this in the previous year - why - one word - Crossrail!! Depends on how you define progress. In terms of 710s being more visible on the network then yes that's true. However progress can also be made in terms of engineers and software designers slogging through reams and reams of test data to identify what has gone wrong and then devising solutions. They then all have to be designed, checked, tested, put into trains and off we go again round the cycle. I am sure Crossrail has had some impact but I don't believe Bombardier have sat on their backsides for a year. The Aventra is a step change in design - it's not like any previous train which means its development and testing has been protracted. Bombardier clearly misjudged the time needed to get a working train and it's been very painful for Overground users who've suffered the brunt of the delays. On the assumption that Bombardier can make the train reliable once it's in passenger service then I suspect they may have a winner on their hands. After all a *lot* of companies have ordered them so there is a massive commercial incentive to make them work.
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Post by snowman on May 12, 2019 12:16:42 GMT
Is it my imagination or has more progress been made with the 710s in the last three months than the previous year? I get the impression that everyone is now really pulling their finger out. My suspicion is they didn't do this in the previous year - why - one word - Crossrail!! Depends on how you define progress. In terms of 710s being more visible on the network then yes that's true. However progress can also be made in terms of engineers and software designers slogging through reams and reams of test data to identify what has gone wrong and then devising solutions. They then all have to be designed, checked, tested, put into trains and off we go again round the cycle. I am sure Crossrail has had some impact but I don't believe Bombardier have sat on their backsides for a year. The Aventra is a step change in design - it's not like any previous train which means its development and testing has been protracted. Bombardier clearly misjudged the time needed to get a working train and it's been very painful for Overground users who've suffered the brunt of the delays. On the assumption that Bombardier can make the train reliable once it's in passenger service then I suspect they may have a winner on their hands. After all a *lot* of companies have ordered them so there is a massive commercial incentive to make them work. These days a new train has 2 distinct process parts, the first is buying and making parts, then assembling them. The second is commissioning them. Not really been much of a problem with the build, production lines move changed over time, the Crossrail 345s substantially built, completion of 378s and Electrostars, and build lines moved on to Greater Anglia and now SWR fleets. The problem is the new trains have complex control processes, and interfaces with various hotel functions (lighting & heating etc), plus safety kit (everything from door interlocks, anti lock braking, signalling etc). Getting the software to do this, has been badly underestimated, and probably disjointed as I have heard some software writers are scattered all around the globe including India. The old maxim of keep it simple has been forgotten, so a simple change seems to need to await a new software release. Someone else can probably recall the numbers, but now upto something like version 30, that is a lot of changes as presumably was supposed to have worked in version 1 (as no one commissions software version 1 to fail at its task). Clearly lots of processes didn’t interface properly with others. One went to Fenchurch Street for electrical tests, but not sure what this was proving as the ones for there will have longer carriages and many more vehicles, as will be 10 car. I assume working in multiple couldn’t happen as not yet passed to do it. Been a while since I have seen any numbers but must be 300 Aventra cars built (600 if you include the parked Elizabeth Line ones), but not in service, so delays must be crucifying Bombardiers cash flow as they won’t get paid for undelivered trains. Not heard any stories about physical parts needing replacing or redesigning (although ORR has requested it is harder for a trespasser to climb on the roof). So software delays are very expensive.
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Post by snoggle on May 12, 2019 21:47:24 GMT
A couple of peak round trip empty stock workings have been added to the GOBLIN working timetable on Monday. This may, and it's purely my guess, foreshadow a possible trial run for livening these trips up for passenger service if they are shown to work OK. They are timed for the height of the peak so would ease overcrowding when it's at its worst.
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Post by snowman on May 13, 2019 6:00:09 GMT
TfL website status page for Overground says the last train of the day is cancelled everyday this week
Doesn’t mention engineering work, so wonder what this is about, perhaps some test runs instead
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