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Post by rambo on Jun 15, 2016 7:48:25 GMT
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Post by sid on Jun 15, 2016 9:14:09 GMT
Can anybody come up with a viable and workable solution to this issue?
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Post by John tuthill on Jun 15, 2016 10:07:21 GMT
Can anybody come up with a viable and workable solution to this issue?
If you are in a wheelchair, you can't stand up, therefore you have MANDITORY priority. If you have a buggy, FOLD IT UP before you get on the bus. If you can't/won't fold it, you don't get on. |
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Post by sid on Jun 15, 2016 10:10:49 GMT
Can anybody come up with a viable and workable solution to this issue?
If you are in a wheelchair, you can't stand up, therefore you have MANDITORY priority. If you have a buggy, FOLD IT UP before you get on the bus. If you can't/won't fold it, you don't get on. Yes an outright ban on bringing unfolded buggies onto the bus is, as far as I can see, the only solution. Quite what problems that will cause is another matter. |
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Post by John tuthill on Jun 15, 2016 10:18:37 GMT
If you are in a wheelchair, you can't stand up, therefore you have MANDITORY priority. If you have a buggy, FOLD IT UP before you get on the bus. If you can't/won't fold it, you don't get on. Yes an outright ban on bringing unfolded buggies onto the bus is, as far as I can see, the only solution. Quite what problems that will cause is another matter. Two solutions off the top of my head. If the chavs have got to pus the buggy, should help the obesity problem. More buggys on pavements less space for cyclists. I'd call that a win-win  |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 15, 2016 11:55:53 GMT
Can anybody come up with a viable and workable solution to this issue?
If you are in a wheelchair, you can't stand up, therefore you have MANDITORY priority. If you have a buggy, FOLD IT UP before you get on the bus. If you can't/won't fold it, you don't get on. Agree - I really hope the disabled fella gets the ruling in his favour as I've seen on many occasions buggy mum refusing to fold her buggy when asked by a driver, resulting in the disabled person not being able to board. Buggy mum has taken the low floor revolution for granted and should not be detrimental to far more priority users such as the disabled. |
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Post by thewintersoldier on Jun 15, 2016 16:08:05 GMT
I believed this happened to me once, after being shouted at by the mother in question who told me I was being unreasonable (I simply asked her if she wouldn't mind folding her buggy up, which was the size of a smart car anyway) after explaining the situation. I simply sat and waited for the bus behind to ensure we would transfer whatever buggy that was on that one to this bus ensuring the wheelchair user would have space. It also got me a Neasden Shopping Centre Turn St Raphaels Estate, which is handy, because I don't like being stabbed or shot.....
The abuse the mother gave me and the wheelchair user was disgusting, and quite frankly, if she was Male, I would have tore her head off. You can fold your buggy. It may be an inconvenience however it keeps things moving, rather than have a potential hostile situation.
Another thing that grinds my gears is the size of buggies these days, it's ridiculous. The space fan fit two buggies but some are so you need to be a Tetris champion to slot two of them in.
I hope he gets "the W" and rules change.
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Post by John tuthill on Jun 15, 2016 17:14:39 GMT
I believed this happened to me once, after being shouted at by the mother in question who told me I was being unreasonable (I simply asked her if she wouldn't mind folding her buggy up, which was the size of a smart car anyway) after explaining the situation. I simply sat and waited for the bus behind to ensure we would transfer whatever buggy that was on that one to this bus ensuring the wheelchair user would have space. It also got me a Neasden Shopping Centre Turn St Raphaels Estate, which is handy, because I don't like being stabbed or shot..... The abuse the mother gave me and the wheelchair user was disgusting, and quite frankly, if she was Male, I would have tore her head off. You can fold your buggy. It may be an inconvenience however it keeps things moving, rather than have a potential hostile situation. Another thing that grinds my gears is the size of buggies these days, it's ridiculous. The space fan fit two buggies but some are so you need to be a Tetris champion to slot two of them in. I hope he gets "the W" and rules change. I've said before, this is whats needed. Hang the buggies of the bike racks.............. Attachment Deleted(Not my photo) |
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Post by snoggle on Jun 15, 2016 21:39:53 GMT
I saw a wheelchair vs buggy contest at T Hale the other day. Fair number of people waiting for an e/b bus. A 230 comes into the bus station and lady in motorised wheelchair gives a clear hail for the bus and is cleverly waiting away from the front door stop so the driver lines up the centre door by her. Meanwhile young mum with buggy has barged other people out of the way to get first dibs at the front door. The driver obviously sensed what was likely to happen so kept the front door closed and let everyone off through the middle. He then closed the centre doors, deployed the ramp and wheelchair lady got on and reversed neatly into the bay. You could almost see steam coming out of the mum's ears by the time the driver opened the front door. As she got on he said "you'll have to fold it", she said "oh it'll fit". (Oh no it won't I silently said under my breath  ). Other people got on and I think buggy mum thought she was going to get away with it but no. Driver didn't move the bus until she got her kid out of the buggy. She then refused to fold the buggy but put it unfolded in the narrow luggage rack which DW Mk2s have. By now every time the driver tried to move off yet more people were running for the bus so the whole exercise took well over 5 minutes. Whether the buggy fell on top of people sitting in the priority seats I can't say. Still fair play to the driver who wasn't going to put up with a lot of old nonsense if the buggy had got on first. If the ruling goes against the bus companies then expect an absolute riot to ensue in London because Transport for All are also supporting the case and they are deeply critical of TfL's approach. They want all buses redesigned and replaced with much larger wheelchair bays. I'd not be astonished if they demand double wheelchair bays on all buses and separate buggy bays to be designated. Quite where this leaves everyone else I don't know. The Deputy Mayor for Transport is a strong supporter of Transport for All and their campaigns so expect to see some pressure on TfL to amend their bus designs and to trial different layouts. |
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Post by londonbusboy on Jun 15, 2016 23:20:47 GMT
Our e200s wont fit the medium/bigger sized buggies down the aisle so most have to go through the rear doors. This makes them automatically wait by the rear doors to board when pulling up. I have told quite a few in the nicest possible way that you need to touch your oyster card first and ask the driver to board the rear doors and they get hostile about it!
[EDIT] I had a packed bus one day and a buggy got on the front and i explained that it would need to be folded in which she replied no i cant i must get this bus ill leave it here by the front doors as im only going a couple of stops in which i replied no it cant. I also said you can try and get it on the back but if you cant it needs to be folded. She managed to get it in and said ill bring you my oyster card when i get off and of course i said no it needs to be touched now and she started getting angry calling me a jobsworth etc
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Post by vjaska on Jun 16, 2016 2:12:16 GMT
Our e200s wont fit the medium/bigger sized buggies down the aisle so most have to go through the rear doors. This makes them automatically wait by the rear doors to board when pulling up. I have told quite a few in the nicest possible way that you need to touch your oyster card first and ask the driver to board the rear doors and they get hostile about it! [EDIT] I had a packed bus one day and a buggy got on the front and i explained that it would need to be folded in which she replied no i cant i must get this bus ill leave it here by the front doors as im only going a couple of stops in which i replied no it cant. I also said you can try and get it on the back but if you cant it needs to be folded. She managed to get it in and said ill bring you my oyster card when i get off and of course i said no it needs to be touched now and she started getting angry calling me a jobsworth etc Lately, I've also noticed that a lot of them are now waiting by the rear doors anticipating it to open - it's a shame that drivers don't just leave the rear doors shut if no one is getting off but the driver is sadly in the 'd*mned if you do, d*mned if you don't' position. |
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 16, 2016 6:34:04 GMT
I saw a wheelchair vs buggy contest at T Hale the other day. Fair number of people waiting for an e/b bus. A 230 comes into the bus station and lady in motorised wheelchair gives a clear hail for the bus and is cleverly waiting away from the front door stop so the driver lines up the centre door by her. Meanwhile young mum with buggy has barged other people out of the way to get first dibs at the front door. The driver obviously sensed what was likely to happen so kept the front door closed and let everyone off through the middle. He then closed the centre doors, deployed the ramp and wheelchair lady got on and reversed neatly into the bay. You could almost see steam coming out of the mum's ears by the time the driver opened the front door. As she got on he said "you'll have to fold it", she said "oh it'll fit". (Oh no it won't I silently said under my breath ). Other people got on and I think buggy mum thought she was going to get away with it but no. Driver didn't move the bus until she got her kid out of the buggy. She then refused to fold the buggy but put it unfolded in the narrow luggage rack which DW Mk2s have. By now every time the driver tried to move off yet more people were running for the bus so the whole exercise took well over 5 minutes. Whether the buggy fell on top of people sitting in the priority seats I can't say. Still fair play to the driver who wasn't going to put up with a lot of old nonsense if the buggy had got on first. If the ruling goes against the bus companies then expect an absolute riot to ensue in London because Transport for All are also supporting the case and they are deeply critical of TfL's approach. They want all buses redesigned and replaced with much larger wheelchair bays. I'd not be astonished if they demand double wheelchair bays on all buses and separate buggy bays to be designated. Quite where this leaves everyone else I don't know. The Deputy Mayor for Transport is a strong supporter of Transport for All and their campaigns so expect to see some pressure on TfL to amend their bus designs and to trial different layouts. After last week's jaunt with baby Arriva on VW1036 (see Metroline thread), today's buggies have the characteristics of CARS  super chunky tyres with innertubes, and in some cases disc brakes (not sure if ABS  ) - our Quinny buggy is not bus friendly and is so big even a second buggy would struggle to fit in the space. Fortunately Ealing and the E2 is quite civilised, but I could see a stand-off in somewhere like Neasden with Alpha Mum and her perceived 'rights'. People fail to see the big picture of a WHEELCHAIR printed on the flooring of the bus (same people would see a bus blinded for a certain destination, and still ask the driver if going to said destination  )... you can't educate stupid, sadly. I would fold my buggy now I've done my A-Level course at evening class learning exactly how to - they make these things too d*mn complex as well. Gangways (especially on B9TL's) are too narrow, ironically it's the curved grab rail designed for the wheelchair user to ring the bell that is too far into the main aisle, meaning exit and entrance for most buggies via the rear doors, and a walk to the front to the Wayfarer to tap in It will be interesting to see the outcome. Some of the kids in the buggies I've seen are three or four and can clearly walk. Teachers complain that some kids that start Reception Class from age four even require NAPPIES - I blame the 'something for nothing' generation that refuse to take any responsibility. (disclaimer: we finally decided on Michelle for the baby's name, as no bus names were appropriate  ) |
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Post by mondraker275 on Jun 16, 2016 10:16:44 GMT
I am hoping he does not win. Seriously, the company is not to blame here, they have given priority to the wheelchair user, what else can they do. Call the police in to get a buggy folded? Are we going to have conductors/wardens fine anyone who enters the disabled wheelchair zone. If people in society cant use common sense then what can we do (Obviously go to the Supreme Court)
TfL could support by making more spacious lower decks on buses.
Anyway this discrimination nonsense arguements have no bounds. I might as well take TfL to court for having priority seats for elderly and pregnant women. Who gives them the right to have the front seat, I wanna sit at the front....
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Post by DT 11 on Jun 16, 2016 10:41:48 GMT
I am hoping he does not win. Seriously, the company is not to blame here, they have given priority to the wheelchair user, what else can they do. Call the police in to get a buggy folded? Are we going to have conductors/wardens fine anyone who enters the disabled wheelchair zone. If people in society cant use common sense then what can we do (Obviously go to the Supreme Court) TfL could support by making more spacious lower decks on buses. Anyway this discrimination nonsense arguements have no bounds. I might as well take TfL to court for having priority seats for elderly and pregnant women. Who gives them the right to have the front seat, I wanna sit at the front.... You mention that, but I have seen this in Catford, at Lewisham Town Hall, a wheelchair user wanted to board the 75, but could not because they refused to move so 3 buses were held up (31, 32 & 33, before she could actually get on TL 34). The Wheelchair use also called the Police too and a don't blame her either. Sorry Pram Users who refuse to give priority to wheelchair users should be arrested and automatically fined for discrimination and banned from travel if they refuse to move. Why should a wheelchair user wait for the next buses, most buses and a lot of recent refurbished buses have a Sky Blue Wheelchair Symbol on the floor. |
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Post by fg49 on Jun 16, 2016 10:55:18 GMT
I am hoping he does not win. Seriously, the company is not to blame here, they have given priority to the wheelchair user, what else can they do. Call the police in to get a buggy folded? Are we going to have conductors/wardens fine anyone who enters the disabled wheelchair zone. If people in society cant use common sense then what can we do (Obviously go to the Supreme Court) TfL could support by making more spacious lower decks on buses. Anyway this discrimination nonsense arguements have no bounds. I might as well take TfL to court for having priority seats for elderly and pregnant women. Who gives them the right to have the front seat, I wanna sit at the front.... You mention that, but I have seen this in Catford, at Lewisham Town Hall, a wheelchair user wanted to board the 75, but could not because they refused to move so 3 buses were held up (31, 32 & 33, before she could actually get on TL 34). The Wheelchair use also called the Police too and a don't blame her either. Sorry Pram Users who refuse to give priority to wheelchair users should be arrested and automatically fined for discrimination and banned from travel if they refuse to move. Why should a wheelchair user wait for the next buses, most buses and a lot of recent refurbished buses have a Sky Blue Wheelchair Symbol on the floor. A bit harsh really, I wouldn't say they deserve to be arrested or to be fined, to be honest. If a mother with her sleeping new born is already on board a packed bus, I don't think it's fair to disrupt that in order to let a wheelchair user board - however I do understand it's not fair on the wheelchair user. Now if the child is able to walk and the bus is empty, then I think the pushchair must give way for the wheelchair user. I don't think a written rule will solve this, I think it should all depend on the age of the child and how packed the bus is. |
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). Other people got on and I think buggy mum thought she was going to get away with it but no. Driver didn't move the bus until she got her kid out of the buggy. She then refused to fold the buggy but put it unfolded in the narrow luggage rack which DW Mk2s have. By now every time the driver tried to move off yet more people were running for the bus so the whole exercise took well over 5 minutes. Whether the buggy fell on top of people sitting in the priority seats I can't say. Still fair play to the driver who wasn't going to put up with a lot of old nonsense if the buggy had got on first.
super chunky tyres with innertubes, and in some cases disc brakes (not sure if ABS 
) - our Quinny buggy is not bus friendly and is so big even a second buggy would struggle to fit in the space. Fortunately Ealing and the E2 is quite civilised, but I could see a stand-off in somewhere like Neasden with Alpha Mum and her perceived 'rights'. People fail to see the big picture of a WHEELCHAIR printed on the flooring of the bus (same people would see a bus blinded for a certain destination, and still ask the driver if going to said destination 
)... you can't educate stupid, sadly. I would fold my buggy now I've done my A-Level course at evening class learning exactly how to - they make these things too d*mn complex as well. Gangways (especially on B9TL's) are too narrow, ironically it's the curved grab rail designed for the wheelchair user to ring the bell that is too far into the main aisle, meaning exit and entrance for most buggies via the rear doors, and a walk to the front to the Wayfarer to tap in 
)
