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Post by snoggle on Jun 23, 2017 12:20:42 GMT
Have TfL just given up on updating their spider and bus maps more generally? No sign of changes for Finchley rd changes let alone Central London ones. they have updated most spider maps with both the Finchley Road and Central London changes online. What they seem to have done with the Spider Maps is reflect changes like the 73, 242, 8, 390. There are plenty of maps - e.g. Charing Cross, Green Park - where changes to the 6 and 13 are not reflected yet. I assume they may be holding off until July when more changes like the 3, 22 and C2 kick in but then why change Oxford Circus's map if it is going to last for barely 4 weeks? Marble Arch is an even bigger disaster with the 139 and 189 just shown as a footnote and not as routes on the map - I know they only serve one stop but why show the 113 but not the 139 and 189 as they all uniquely serve the same stop? It reflects the 13 to Victoria but not the 390 nor the rerouted 6. What a mess. I pity any tourists trying to get around Central London at the moment as I doubt any publicity is 100% accurate at present.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 23, 2017 12:34:00 GMT
they have updated most spider maps with both the Finchley Road and Central London changes online. What they seem to have done with the Spider Maps is reflect changes like the 73, 242, 8, 390. There are plenty of maps - e.g. Charing Cross, Green Park - where changes to the 6 and 13 are not reflected yet. I assume they may be holding off until July when more changes like the 3, 22 and C2 kick in but then why change Oxford Circus's map if it is going to last for barely 4 weeks? Marble Arch is an even bigger disaster with the 139 and 189 just shown as a footnote and not as routes on the map - I know they only serve one stop but why show the 113 but not the 139 and 189 as they all uniquely serve the same stop? It reflects the 13 to Victoria but not the 390 nor the rerouted 6. What a mess. I pity any tourists trying to get around Central London at the moment as I doubt any publicity is 100% accurate at present. What they could of done is uploaded temporary line maps like some bus stop timetables showing the routes running together and reflecting the new changes - that would be better than nothing and when all the changes are implemented, upload new spider maps in their place.
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Post by ian on Jun 23, 2017 18:13:03 GMT
Hmm, well...
The ones I looked at were the Central London bus map where there are no changes yet and the NW London quadrant map - again no changes yet.
the spider maps I looked at were outer London ones relating to Finchley Road routes eg Mill Hill, Hendon etc., where again there are no changes shown yet.
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Post by snoggle on Jun 23, 2017 18:40:10 GMT
Hmm, well... The ones I looked at were the Central London bus map where there are no changes yet and the NW London quadrant map - again no changes yet. the spider maps I looked at were outer London ones relating to Finchley Road routes eg Mill Hill, Hendon etc., where again there are no changes shown yet. All we know is that the quadrant maps won't be in printed form and that the contract with FWT has been cancelled. I would not hold out any hope for an imminent update of any of the "traditional" maps. *If* TfL have retained some sort of licence to use the base FWT map info then there are far too many changes [1] still outstanding in Zone 1 to make it cost effective to draw up a revised version now. If TfL have NOT retained a license with FWT then we face the prospect of some other form of digitally based map having to be created and who knows how long that will take. [1] 3, N15, 11, 23, 46, 22, C2, 78, 153, 214, 25, 425 - these changes are stretched out over several months. And who knows what else is in store due to "temporary" changes. We then may get another slew of amendments when the TCR and Baker St gyratory changes are complete in 2018. And yes, in theory, a digital format should allow faster updates than a printed version but I think there has been a huge loss of skill and knowledge within TfL which is why things are such a shambles.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jun 24, 2017 10:53:52 GMT
Regarding the 172, is there any valid reason as to why it's being rerouted to Clerkenwell? It's quite an odd destination and it seems TFL are sending it there to release stand space at St. Paul's for curtailing the 242. Also the 172's new routing is questionable as the 45 and 63 already link E&C and Farringdon and provide a more direct journey, the 243 also provides a connection between Farringdon and Waterloo therefore not leaving much for the 172 apart from convenience on TFL's behalf. Furthermore, Clerkenwell to Waterloo will usually be quicker on route 243 than route 172.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jun 24, 2017 10:56:09 GMT
I think the 172 will prove to be a useful distributor from Farringdon. As for the Angel link, I had half expected the 341 to be rerouted away from Grays Inn Road and Holborn via Charterhouse Street snd Farringdon Road. The 153 is a very short walk from Clerkenwell Green but I agreed the 19 would be a good route to divert down Farringdon Road (the 38 can soak up the remainder). Controversially the 172 may be better suited terminating on Rosebery Avenue (Finsbury Town Hall) but that is also a bit of a non-destination (and the stand is quite small) Current route 172 would then replicate old route 172 (Archway - Rosebery Avenue - West Norwood) by serving Rosebery Avenue!
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jun 24, 2017 11:04:00 GMT
Have TfL just given up on updating their spider and bus maps more generally? No sign of changes for Finchley rd changes let alone Central London ones. I looked at the spider map for North West London the other day to see the exact routing for route 483 in Wembley & Harrow. However, it had still not been added!
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Post by Nathan on Jun 24, 2017 11:05:17 GMT
Heck, why not extend the 172 to Angel Islington via Roseberry Avenue. I'd be more than happy with that as it'll be easier to see family who live there
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Post by snoggle on Jun 24, 2017 11:20:30 GMT
Heck, why not extend the 172 to Angel Islington via Roseberry Avenue. I'd be more than happy with that as it'll be easier to see family who live there Unfortunately TfL lost the stand space at the old Islington Green that would have made such a change feasible. There's very little stand space in and around Angel that would work in terms of a route coming from the south being able to serve the Tube and shopping area effectively. The alternative is to stand where the 274 stands which is a bit "out of sight, out of mind" for many people.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 25, 2017 15:03:40 GMT
I wonder if when the 11 returns to Liverpool Street soon if the 23 will be cut between there and Aldwych as in the consultation TFL said they need to make changes to the route now to restore reliability. I did notice at X that the timetable gives the journey time now as 98 mins to Liverpool Street which is quite long really.
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Post by Hassaan on Jun 25, 2017 16:57:19 GMT
I wonder if when the 11 returns to Liverpool Street soon if the 23 will be cut between there and Aldwych as in the consultation TFL said they need to make changes to the route now to restore reliability. I did notice at X that the timetable gives the journey time now as 98 mins to Liverpool Street which is quite long really. Some trips on the 23 take as many as 109 minutes, while the shortest trips are 47 minutes. The last time I took the 23 it was from Liverpool Street to Oxford Circus, a distance of 3.3 miles. It departed around 1020 on a Friday and took about 50 minutes, which is actually roughly what is timetabled to take My plan was to take the Central Line but a brand new MV turned up and I got tempted by that . It appears taking the 8 to Tottenham Court Road and then another bus would save about 10-15 minutes, despite the total distance being roughly the same. It seems a lot of people have noticed just how long the bus takes compared to the Tube, helped by apps like Citymapper which generally displays accurate times and really show how high the differences in journey times are. On the other hand the TfL journey planner assumes it takes longer to enter/exit/interchange at stations than most people would take, making journeys look longer than they are, and the bus journey times they show are often much longer than actually timetabled (e.g. 33 minutes from my stop to Hounslow Bus Station when the 120 was timetabled for 18 minutes at that time ).
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 25, 2017 17:16:44 GMT
I have to say I took the 23 last Friday from Ladbroke Grove to Charing Cross and apart from a bit of traffic getting on to Edgware Road it didn't feel painfully long and took about 50 mins. Maybe already not having the 6, 13 and 73 and 159 at the moment are starting to make Oxford Street more free flowing but as for the 23 it wasn't as long as delayed as the timetable average journey time would have you believe.
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Post by redbus on Jun 25, 2017 21:37:52 GMT
I wonder if when the 11 returns to Liverpool Street soon if the 23 will be cut between there and Aldwych as in the consultation TFL said they need to make changes to the route now to restore reliability. I did notice at X that the timetable gives the journey time now as 98 mins to Liverpool Street which is quite long really. I am sure the 23 will be curtailed from Liverpool Street once the 11 returns there. As far as I can see there's no capacity issue now with just the 23 and the 26 (which has had a frequency reduction), so I can't see the 23 remaining as is.
The question is where will it be cut back to? In the Liverpool Street consultation it stated Aldwych, but in the central London consultation is stated it would be re-routed from Paddington to Lancaster Gate where it would terminate. The results of the Liverpool Street consultation say it has been superseded by the central London consultation, so maybe that means Lancaster Gate. On the hand it may mean it will be cut back in two stages, first to Aldwych, then to Lancaster Gate. My guess is that following the re-routing of the 6 and 13, TfL are pouring over the passengers numbers right now to see if they can get away with cutting it back to Lancaster Gate without waiting for Crossrail.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 25, 2017 22:55:35 GMT
If the 23 was to be withdrawn east of Paddington that would leave only the 139 linking Oxford Street and Aldwych. Changed days from the 6, 13, 15, 23, 139 and 176 aswell as the 7 as the only Paddington to Oxford Street route again down from 7, 15, 23.
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Post by rhys on Jun 25, 2017 23:04:37 GMT
If the 23 was to be withdrawn east of Paddington that would leave only the 139 linking Oxford Street and Aldwych. Changed days from the 6, 13, 15, 23, 139 and 176 aswell as the 7 as the only Paddington to Oxford Street route again down from 7, 15, 23. The 159 also provided a link from Paddington to Oxford Street for a brief 4 years
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