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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 9:44:44 GMT
I might have to take a trip to North Greenwich today, they had all four quadrants the last time I was there in March.
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Post by beaver14uk on May 16, 2017 21:21:10 GMT
Last time I was in the office there we did.
quote author="@dillon95" source="/post/376942/thread" timestamp="1494927884"]I might have to take a trip to North Greenwich today, they had all four quadrants the last time I was there in March.[/quote]
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Post by danorak on May 16, 2017 21:35:41 GMT
Labouring a point I've made before, but in these days of the Hopper ticket, it's not enough to only know about journeys that can be made using a single bus from a given point. This is where spider maps fall down. And once the number of routes gets beyond a certain quantity, I find them very awkward to read given the sheer number of colours and lines.
It's a real shame the quadrants appear to be going - I found them much clearer than Mike Harris' maps. While the effort was appreciated, and I recognise they were produced under certain restraints, they were a bit too congested for me.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 22:54:37 GMT
Labouring a point I've made before, but in these days of the Hopper ticket, it's not enough to only know about journeys that can be made using a single bus from a given point. This is where spider maps fall down. And once the number of routes gets beyond a certain quantity, I find them very awkward to read given the sheer number of colours and lines. It's a real shame the quadrants appear to be going - I found them much clearer than Mike Harris' maps. While the effort was appreciated, and I recognise they were produced under certain restraints, they were a bit too congested for me. I agree. Using my area as an example, it should be shown on maps that using the hopper fare you can change at Bromley and get the 227 onto Beckenham & Crystal Palace or the 119 to Croydon for example. But the Sidcup map doesn't show that, so anyone without bus route knowledge might not know that they can do that. I quite like the night bus maps, they don't show as many stops on the routes, but you can see where to change to get to certain areas. |
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Post by ben on May 16, 2017 23:33:33 GMT
An utterly naive move that reflects badly on TfL's internal thinking. The shortcomings of spider maps have already been alluded to; suffice to say they do not provide the same information, coherance, or inclusiveness as the paper maps. Indeed, TfL may become the only UK government organisation in transport to *not* produce a geographic map for the general public. This works for rail services because of the discrete and compartmentalised nature of rail travel, but because bus services run along public highways on which people may have business to interact with locations between stops, it doesn't make sense for this mode.
My naive question though; given the location of roads is a matter of public knowledge in the public domain, why can't TfL commission a base map internally? The vast majority of the work is in the initial creation, alterations are far less (most likely excluding the radical service 'provision' changes coming). This would presumably overcome the cost of license fees, albeit at the expense of paying someone for the initial work.
Do London Busses internally have access to an electronic document setting out bus services on a geographic map? There must be something or how else would things like railway replacements and diversions be planned?
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Post by snoggle on Jun 19, 2017 0:29:35 GMT
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Post by lonmark on Jun 19, 2017 9:45:00 GMT
Hope major answer it and really want to save bus maps online only rather than paper out.
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Post by beaver14uk on Jun 19, 2017 16:56:14 GMT
I have kept asking internally but nobody can be bothered to answer my emails sadly. uote author=" snoggle" source="/post/380858/thread" timestamp="1497832175"]Seems the Assembly Member for my local area has asked the Mayor about the scrapping of the paper quadrant bus maps. Wonder how that could have happened??    [/quote] |
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Post by snoggle on Jun 19, 2017 17:04:38 GMT
I have kept asking internally but nobody can be bothered to answer my emails sadly. Thanks for trying to get an answer. Not surprised no answer is forthcoming given the parlous performance in updating quadrant and spider maps over the last 2 years. Well I have read somewhere that this is officially confirmed (ah yes, the latest TLB from LOTS) - paper maps have ended but the online versions will be retained and updated. I was "tipped off" that the contract with FWT had been ended. That rather begs the question as to what form of online map will be provided. If someone things dots or a red line on Google Maps is a substitute for a proper map they need their heads examining. Even then you can't use a map on a smart device in the same way as a paper version. So, in essence, I know what the answer will be from the Mayor (as TfL will write it) but it's not the whole point. The main point is that the maps' demise is on the public record of London government. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 7:46:02 GMT
They are severely over looking the fact that many older people use those maps to plan trips out around London.
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Post by ben on Jun 20, 2017 9:06:19 GMT
Or did!
Anyone know what trouble Mike Harris is having? Is it just a time shortage
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Post by Ted Barclay on Jun 20, 2017 13:36:19 GMT
Or did! Anyone know what trouble Mike Harris is having? Is it just a time shortage Latest update on his website: www.busmap.co.uk/ |
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Post by ben on Jun 20, 2017 19:37:53 GMT
Or did! Anyone know what trouble Mike Harris is having? Is it just a time shortage Latest update on his website: www.busmap.co.uk/Indeed, seems a bit cryptic though maybe? Or, rather, I was hoping someone might be able to elaborate a bit on what 'technical difficulties' entails. I mean, if you can't make a cup of tea because there are no clean teaspoons that is a technical difficulty  Pure speculation but surely it can't be anything to do with actually drawing the maps, as the drawing changes may well be iterative, so I'm guessing its something about licensing maybe? I do hope hes able to overcome these as they're great maps  |
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Post by snoggle on Jun 20, 2017 19:48:03 GMT
That doesnt actually explain anything. Or, rather, I was hoping someone might know what 'technical difficulties' entails. If I can't make a cup of tea because there are no clean teaspoons, that is a technical difficulty! It surely can't be anything to do with actually producing the maps, so I'm guessing its something about licensing maybe? It could be licensing as you say but it may simply be something like computer equipment or software needing upgrading or a loss of a former facility for printing. There may also be cost issues involved that may be making the progression from updating to a print run for sale difficult. We also don't know what may have happened to the total cost of production and what it would mean for the price of an updated map and what sales there would be. All speculation obviously so don't run away with my comments. I just think we have to wait for Mr Harris to sort things through and provide an update in his own time. |
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Post by ben on Jun 20, 2017 19:56:58 GMT
That doesnt actually explain anything. Or, rather, I was hoping someone might know what 'technical difficulties' entails. If I can't make a cup of tea because there are no clean teaspoons, that is a technical difficulty! It surely can't be anything to do with actually producing the maps, so I'm guessing its something about licensing maybe? It could be licensing as you say but it may simply be something like computer equipment or software needing upgrading or a loss of a former facility for printing. There may also be cost issues involved that may be making the progression from updating to a print run for sale difficult. We also don't know what may have happened to the total cost of production and what it would mean for the price of an updated map and what sales there would be. All speculation obviously so don't run away with my comments. I just think we have to wait for Mr Harris to sort things through and provide an update in his own time. This is sort of what got me thinking. Given the raw power of modern PCs and the plethora of vector graphics packages out there these days, it seems a fair assumption to believe its more likely something commercial. Print costs must also be a big issue; I think Maxwell Roberts ended up investing in his own high quality colour plotter for print runs of his own maps. Whatever the troubles are, I do hope he is able to reach some resolution soon. His is an invaluable resource in both digital and paper, and when TfL pulls the plug on their quads will be the only geographic map of London going. |
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