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Post by SILENCED on Jun 20, 2017 20:26:24 GMT
That doesnt actually explain anything. Or, rather, I was hoping someone might know what 'technical difficulties' entails. If I can't make a cup of tea because there are no clean teaspoons, that is a technical difficulty! It surely can't be anything to do with actually producing the maps, so I'm guessing its something about licensing maybe? Imagine the technical difficulties are a software owner demanding money ... so yes licensing is probably correct! |
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Post by Ted Barclay on Jun 20, 2017 20:26:36 GMT
That doesnt actually explain anything. Or, rather, I was hoping someone might know what 'technical difficulties' entails. If I can't make a cup of tea because there are no clean teaspoons, that is a technical difficulty! It surely can't be anything to do with actually producing the maps, so I'm guessing it's something about licensing maybe? Bearing in mind that Mike Harris produces the maps in his own spare time (yes I know he charges for the maps, but any modest profit goes to charity), I think that perhaps you are being a tad demanding. Is it really anybody's business but his as to why he can't produce maps or indeed when he produces them? There is a 'contact' button on his website - have you thought of using that to get more details from Mike? Ted B |
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Post by ben on Jun 21, 2017 13:59:56 GMT
Sorry Ted, but you've misinterpreted me there. Absolutely not trying to be 'demanding' at all, and find it regrettable and unnecessary that you've framed my comment as such. I have absolutely no qualms with the authors work or his undoubted and longtime generosity in time and money, I am merely curious as to what might be behind a fairly generic message, taking a personal interest in using vector graphics packages for diagrammatic drawing too. I strongly suggest that you've got the wrong end of the stick with the intentions behind me asking.
Given that Mike does do it in his spare time, and that this is a bus enthusiasts forum full of people who may already have a better idea, I considered it less formal to ask on here than send off an email.
Fair enough??
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jun 24, 2017 13:57:20 GMT
It seems pointless freezing some fares then cutting part of the service, most notably some buses in central London and now these bus maps. Alternatively, they could introduce a small charge for the maps to compensate for "lost" revenue as a result of the partial fares freeze?
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Post by snoggle on Jun 24, 2017 14:42:25 GMT
It seems pointless freezing some fares then cutting part of the service, most notably some buses in central London and now these bus maps. Alternatively, they could introduce a small charge for the maps to compensate for "lost" revenue as a result of the partial fares freeze? The draft Transport Strategy says in clear terms that TfL expect to keep reducing the bus network in Central London in the short to medium term. When you couple that with the issues surrounding Oxford St pedestrianisation I think some parts of the centre will have close to zero buses. Mayoral Strategy is to force people on to Tube or else to walk and cycle. It is clearly the expectation that these will be the predominant modes in Zone 1 with buses as an incidental mode for certain links. The problem with charging for bus maps is that the "outlets" that TfL have mostly do not handle cash - tube station staff don't handle cash directly. Bus station staff don't do so either. The only outlets that do are "Visitor centres" and there are few of those. If you tried to sell them via Oyster ticket stops the agent would want to be paid commission for so doing. Unfortunately TfL have dismantled so much of their "old" retail operation that they've no cost effective way of charging. The double irony is that TfL are still printing and publishing 24 (?) paper cycling and yet more walking guides. Still there are only 6m or so pass jnys a day by bus so clearly no one needs to know where they go.   |
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Post by ben on Jun 24, 2017 15:23:04 GMT
When TfL/LT did the 'Out and About' local transport and listings guides, you used to be able to order a maximum of three (iirc) by calling up 1234, and they'd send them out free of charge in the post.
What about if this could be adapted to modern tech and payment methods to overcome the shortage of retail openings? Something like send your address and the area guides you would like to a 5 digit texting number, it debits £1.50 or something to your mobile phone bill, and is posted out to you.
The big trouble would be how comprehensive the information would be. If people paid for the information they'd expect it to be high quality and informative. Which is certainly not the case with most of the info provided directly atm (spider maps instead of geographic, bus departure lists instead of timetables, etc)
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 24, 2017 15:31:22 GMT
When TfL/LT did the 'Out and About' local transport and listings guides, you used to be able to order a maximum of three (iirc) by calling up 1234, and they'd send them out free of charge in the post. What about if this could be adapted to modern tech and payment methods to overcome the shortage of retail openings? Something like send your address and the area guides you would like to a 5 digit texting number, it debits £1.50 or something to your mobile phone bill, and is posted out to you. The big trouble would be how comprehensive the information would be. If people paid for the information they'd expect it to be high quality and informative. Which is certainly not the case with most of the info provided directly atm (spider maps instead of geographic, bus departure lists instead of timetables, etc) Similarly, the question could also be raised on if you start charging if people will pick up the maps at all. All the information will be available for free on third party sites such as Google Maps. The only reason a lot of people pick them up is because they are free and saves you a bit of hassle. Should you start charging for them the people will probably rather go through the hassle of searching it up for free on the internet rather than paying for a map. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jun 24, 2017 21:57:26 GMT
When TfL/LT did the 'Out and About' local transport and listings guides, you used to be able to order a maximum of three (iirc) by calling up 1234, and they'd send them out free of charge in the post. What about if this could be adapted to modern tech and payment methods to overcome the shortage of retail openings? Something like send your address and the area guides you would like to a 5 digit texting number, it debits £1.50 or something to your mobile phone bill, and is posted out to you. The big trouble would be how comprehensive the information would be. If people paid for the information they'd expect it to be high quality and informative. Which is certainly not the case with most of the info provided directly atm (spider maps instead of geographic, bus departure lists instead of timetables, etc) Yes, it should be possible to order maps or timetable booklets online to be posted out to us. Even people with internet on their mobiles can only see a very small part of a map on their mobile at any one moment. TfL could simply despatch the version as exists online, even if occasionally it is not entirely up to date. |
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Post by ben on Jun 26, 2017 13:54:48 GMT
When TfL/LT did the 'Out and About' local transport and listings guides, you used to be able to order a maximum of three (iirc) by calling up 1234, and they'd send them out free of charge in the post. What about if this could be adapted to modern tech and payment methods to overcome the shortage of retail openings? Something like send your address and the area guides you would like to a 5 digit texting number, it debits £1.50 or something to your mobile phone bill, and is posted out to you. The big trouble would be how comprehensive the information would be. If people paid for the information they'd expect it to be high quality and informative. Which is certainly not the case with most of the info provided directly atm (spider maps instead of geographic, bus departure lists instead of timetables, etc) Similarly, the question could also be raised on if you start charging if people will pick up the maps at all. All the information will be available for free on third party sites such as Google Maps. The only reason a lot of people pick them up is because they are free and saves you a bit of hassle. Should you start charging for them the people will probably rather go through the hassle of searching it up for free on the internet rather than paying for a map. Well indeed, this is why it *must* have a USP. That doesnt necessarily have to be the scope of information provided, (though a listings section and mini white-pages/useful numbers could prove popular), but rather it could be how the information provided is presented. Relying on third party contributions to data pools like google maps or open street maps is always at the whim of data being incomplete, and on a mobile device can be extremely tedious. Thats one of the benefits of paper straight away. |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 11, 2017 19:37:22 GMT
A couple of Bus Map related news items. Firstly the response to a Mayor's Question that "someone" asked the LA member for NE London. So has anyone discovered one of these "Travel Options" leaflets? Odd that TfL have not put them online either. The above reply does explain a recent remark about a new version of the Central London bus map being available. The second news item is that Mike Harris has updated his Londonwide Bus Map and also the Night Bus map. Information on his website www.busmap.co.uk The new versions will be up to date to 29 July 2017 and can be pre-ordered now. |
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Post by danorak on Jul 11, 2017 20:16:59 GMT
So has anyone discovered one of these "Travel Options" leaflets? Odd that TfL have not put them online either. The above reply does explain a recent remark about a new version of the Central London bus map being available. Hmmm. I'm mystified how any of those Travel Options leaflets can, for example, equate to a North West London Bus Map. These sound like entirely different beasts. |
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Post by ben on Jul 11, 2017 22:01:28 GMT
'We've not stopped publishing them, theyre just now totally different.'
Errr... what?
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Post by ben on Jul 11, 2017 22:47:56 GMT
A couple of Bus Map related news items. Firstly the response to a Mayor's Question that "someone" asked the LA member for NE London. So has anyone discovered one of these "Travel Options" leaflets? Odd that TfL have not put them online either. The above reply does explain a recent remark about a new version of the Central London bus map being available. The second news item is that Mike Harris has updated his Londonwide Bus Map and also the Night Bus map. Information on his website www.busmap.co.uk The new versions will be up to date to 29 July 2017 and can be pre-ordered now. Once youve stopped laughing! Youre not seriously going to accept that answer from them are you snoggle? I mean its so obtuse as to be bordering on the insulting. They surely can't be struggling to understand that the question is "are you or are you not intending to cease publication of geographic bus maps of all regular routes within an areas of roughly one quarter of the capital (commonly known as quadrant maps); if so, why"...?? However, depending on how much you wish to fight fire with fire (or frustrating with frustrating) their response makes a number of claims which require scrutiny under FOI. 1) "redesigned to include more information" - by what process have information and data streams been a) selected, b) edited, and c) weighted to be included above and beyond that of 'geographic bus routings set out as a map covering approximately ¼ of London'? 2) "be more user-friendly" - please include a cost break down and methodology details of any study that has been commissioned/undertaken to define what, in the context of new publicity, the term 'user friendly' means; how this concept has been quantified and applied to the former format of quadrant maps and their intended replacement 'travel options leaflets'; and consequently how both compare to each other under this metric as defined. 3) What the effect of destaffing has on access to new printed publicity material (including areas outside the locality of a given bus station/VIC); what the effect of withdrawing online access to up to date spacial and geographic information about bus routes has on passengers/potential passengers who do not live near a staffed-and-stocked bus station/VIC and have no intention of vising their one as part of a journey. My point being authoritative claims can't just be made without some justification. Terms like 'more information' and 'more user friendly' have to be demonstratively factual within reason. Otherwise it makes a mockery of whatever internal decision making processes TfL are following (which might even have implications for ISO 9001 and similar). I fear however you might have to resort to asking questions like "if TfL had a favourite colour, what would it smell like?", "if bus route 207 were a famous 19th century welsh play-write, who would they be and why?", and "what percentage of TfL staff having read Orwells' '1984' consider 'Newspeak' a transcendent paradigm in public relations information dissemination?", just to get the point across and vent one's spleen :/ |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 11, 2017 22:51:04 GMT
So has anyone discovered one of these "Travel Options" leaflets? Odd that TfL have not put them online either. The above reply does explain a recent remark about a new version of the Central London bus map being available. Hmmm. I'm mystified how any of those Travel Options leaflets can, for example, equate to a North West London Bus Map. These sound like entirely different beasts. Looks like "someone" may have to get a clarification question asked.  I agree that a few local centred maps cannot, on the face of it, replicate the quadrant bus maps. |
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Post by lonmark on Aug 2, 2017 18:15:13 GMT
I hoping that TfL need to hurry up with new bus maps for online. I would like to see it. I know the bus Maps got new one out but i rather want TfL provide it for us able to view online.
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