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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 7, 2017 16:05:13 GMT
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Post by routew15 on Jul 7, 2017 16:48:33 GMT
At a glance this does not look bad upon furher reading i may change my judgement.
The change to the 300 must cause a dip in the Stansfield Road PTAL it leaves just the low frequency 376 (dont think Royal Albert is as easy to access in comparison to neighbouring stations Prince Regent and Beckton Park). This is the only really concern at present.
The 25 cut could of been worse. Would of much preferred Holborn to be kept on the route but "Holborn Circus" (more City Thameslink) will have to do.
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Post by Nathan on Jul 7, 2017 17:15:11 GMT
I quite like most of these ideas! Just two changes that I have concerns with... - Route 25 - This is quite an 'important' chunk that they're proposing to scrap. During the day (peak or off-peak times) I've seen many 25 buses fairly populated. It feels as if they are trying going to force people to use the Elizabeth Line. I feel it should at least get cut back to Holborn, or even Tottenham Court Road (although lack of stand space prevents this). - Route 115 - I fear the reliability will be heavily affected with traffic in the Whitechapel area. |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 7, 2017 17:28:11 GMT
The Harold Wood area changes are fine as is the 115 change.
The 25 cut is disappointing as it leaves just one bus from the City to Oxford St - the Boilmaster operated 8. Another major frequency cut here - why bother increasing it in the short term? Seems completely pointless to restructure the route twice in less than 18 months.
I don't understand the logic in re-routing the 300 and nor do TfL as they haven't explained why they are doing it.
I'm not local to that bit of Newham but I am struggling with the reasoning for a lot of tinkering other than to serve Custom House. I struggle as to why Lonsdale Avenue will end up with 13.5 bph in each direction. I think if I lived there I'd not be overly happy with that - it's not exactly a main road. Looks like the 241 is axed purely to fund the extension in the Olympic Park and yet the 388s are not exactly packed out on departure from Stratford City so why provide 12 bph on this section?
The rumoured extension of the 304 on from Manor Park to Stratford / Stratford City hasn't made the grade either. A real opportunity missed. Looks like West London is getting all the genuine new services and links.
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Post by busoccultation on Jul 7, 2017 17:53:08 GMT
I'm assuming 25 cut back to Holborn Circus is also related to Oxford Street pedestrianisation as well as Crossrail but I'm hoping that 25 does not cut to Holborn Circus before mid/late 2019. Didn't expect the 241 to cut back to Custom House and interesting to see East Wick extension being revived. Worth noting that 256 is being converted to Double Deckers and 174 will have frequency increase to every 6 minutes. However I do find the 241, 300 and 474 changes quite unnecessary.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 19:36:02 GMT
OK can do a proper reply now not on mobile.
241 - I really don't like the idea of cutting the route back to Custom House or Prince Regent. It picks up a lot of local passengers from Canning Town through Keir Hardie Estate traveling both towards Stratford but also local connections such as Freemasons Road / Abbey Arms. I would much rather the route is maintained to terminate at Keir Hardie (At least) but this will mean three routes on the local roads again is there a need ? As for th extension is there really that much demand at East Wick?
474 - This replaces the 241 through Keir Hardie but hardly brings any benefits as I can't see many passengers wishing to travel towards City Airport or a long way round towards Beckton / East Ham. We have the 147 if we want East Ham. Also as the 474 is 24 hours is means 2 night bus routes in a very built up area unless changes are made to the N551?
300 - This route will end up swapping directions in Prince Regent which will initially be confusing. Does Freemasons / New Barn Street really need 3 routes traveling towards Abbey Arms?
Also unless something drastic is changed at Custom House I can't see where this bus stand will be! - Crossrail have just given back some land to Newham Council but its half the size it was (Next to the stairs of Custom House Station.
I just don't see what all these changes have to do with Crossrail its not like its going to create new links replacing these bus service changes.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 7, 2017 19:38:53 GMT
OK can do a proper reply now not on mobile. 241 - I really don't like the idea of cutting the route back to Custom House or Prince Regent. It picks up a lot of local passengers from Canning Town through Keir Hardie Estate traveling both towards Stratford but also local connections such as Freemasons Road / Abbey Arms. I would much rather the route is maintained to terminate at Keir Hardie (At least) but this will mean three routes on the local roads again is there a need ? 474 - This replaces the 241 through Keir Hardie but hardly brings any benefits as I can't see many passengers wishing to travel towards City Airport or a long way round towards Beckton / East Ham. We have the 147 if we want East Ham. Also as the 474 is 24 hours is means 2 night bus routes in a very built up area unless changes are made to the N551? 300 - This route will end up swapping directions in Prince Regent which will initially be confusing. Does Freemasons / New Barn Street really need 3 routes traveling towards Abbey Arms? Also unless something drastic is changed at Custom House I can't see where this bus stand will be! - Crossrail have just given back some land to Newham Council but its half the size it was (Next to the stairs of Custom House Station. I just don't see what all these changes have to do with Crossrail its not like its going to create new links replacing these bus service changes. I was thinking similar. A lot of it just looks like faffing around with routes for the sake of it, I don't see what benefit many of these will bring. The 330 would be far better utilised if it just went into Canary Wharf and I don't see the point of the 241 going to Here East. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 19:48:06 GMT
OK can do a proper reply now not on mobile. 241 - I really don't like the idea of cutting the route back to Custom House or Prince Regent. It picks up a lot of local passengers from Canning Town through Keir Hardie Estate traveling both towards Stratford but also local connections such as Freemasons Road / Abbey Arms. I would much rather the route is maintained to terminate at Keir Hardie (At least) but this will mean three routes on the local roads again is there a need ? 474 - This replaces the 241 through Keir Hardie but hardly brings any benefits as I can't see many passengers wishing to travel towards City Airport or a long way round towards Beckton / East Ham. We have the 147 if we want East Ham. Also as the 474 is 24 hours is means 2 night bus routes in a very built up area unless changes are made to the N551? 300 - This route will end up swapping directions in Prince Regent which will initially be confusing. Does Freemasons / New Barn Street really need 3 routes traveling towards Abbey Arms? Also unless something drastic is changed at Custom House I can't see where this bus stand will be! - Crossrail have just given back some land to Newham Council but its half the size it was (Next to the stairs of Custom House Station. I just don't see what all these changes have to do with Crossrail its not like its going to create new links replacing these bus service changes. I was thinking similar. A lot of it just looks like faffing around with routes for the sake of it, I don't see what benefit many of these will bring. The 330 would be far better utilised if it just went into Canary Wharf and I don't see the point of the 241 going to Here East. I agree but sadly like over consultations this is probably a done deal already. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 19:50:48 GMT
And Newham Hospital gets a third route with the 304 I see.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 7, 2017 21:45:39 GMT
Outsiders view here  Routes, 241, 330 & 474Like others, I really don't understand the faffing around with the 241, 330 & 474 around Custom House - as @dannyb mentioned, the 241 change breaks through journeys to Canning Town for London City Airport journeys instead but I'm not sure how well that is used. The 330 extension seems to just literally paper over the 474 being re-routed and I can honestly see it running empty between Custom House & Canning Town. The Canary Wharf extension mentioned by Eastlondoner62 seems a much more useful extension to undertake. As for the 241's extension to Here East, my suspicions is it's simply been extended to free up stand space as I can't think of a reason as to why another route needs to serve Here East. Routes 104 & 304This is a change I kind of like not that I had anything against the 104 in it's current form but it gives Lonsdale Avenue a link to Beckton but should also improve reliability now it no longer needs to serve East Ham whilst at the same time preserving that link to East Ham & new links to Newham General Hospital in the form of the 304. My biggest issue though is the amount of buses along Lonsdale Avenue which was full of parked cars when I did my end to end journey of the 104 - that could delay the service if buses meet like on the 147. By the way, I assume the 304 will be double decked as well as it's not made clear in the consultation? Route 300Only observation here is why couldn't it continue to serve Stansfield Road and just double run at Prince Regent Station back to Prince Regent Lane instead of running Freemasons Road & New Barn Street? Route 174, 256 & 497Agree with the 497 routing and hopefully, locals will use it as well. Also agree with the 174 getting a frequency increase and finally the double decking of the very busy 256 - if only they could sort out it's reliability issues as well. Route 115I can see why the 115 change has been proposed but honestly, I can see it being wrecked by heavy traffic around Whitechapel. Also, according to TfL, Limehouse & Whitechapel Station have no link currently - err, so whats the D3 then  Route 25TBH, we all knew it was coming and somehow, it wasn't as bad as some feared. That said, I'd of liked to have seen some replacement rather than leaving the 8 to go it alone from East London to Tottenham Court Road |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 7, 2017 23:03:31 GMT
Also unless something drastic is changed at Custom House I can't see where this bus stand will be! - Crossrail have just given back some land to Newham Council but its half the size it was (Next to the stairs of Custom House Station. The technical note says the scheme for the 304/330/474/241 may founder if stand space is not found by Newham Council near to Custom House station. |
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Post by enviroPB on Jul 8, 2017 0:25:47 GMT
It's worth pointing out to everyone what TfL has changed some ideas since the Bus Development Document Papers; the link to which can be found by searching the thread title on the forum's search bar. The 300 was proposed to be cut from Custom House, and extended to Stratford City via Capel Road and Forest Lane; but that has not come to fruition...yet. It would be nice if that round the corner link from Manor Park to Forest Gate (Wanstead Park Station) be provided by either the 300 or 304, but I guess substancial road changes needs to happen on Capel Road and thus throws a spanner in TfL's plans.
Apart from that slight wobble, the wholesale south Newham plans have already been foresighted and digested so there's no point going over the same plans twice; but if asked I agree with most of the changes as was presented in said document papers. The Lonsdale Avenue section of the 104; I dare anyone to hail a bus to Stratford at 8am and see how populated that section of the routing is! Providing new links on the 304 will massively help out those residents by giving them further options for travel, and I suspect that 13.5 bph will see a modest decrease (in the form of the 104) once the dust settles after the Crossrail changes.
The only other things to mention from the documentation that hasn't arisen in this consultation is the 304 double-running to Custom House and then onto North Greenwich via the Silvertown Tunnel and the 325 potentially either running to London City Airport or a new development at Royal Albert named ABP; but these changes are as real as the ficticious infrastructure proposed so at present, these plans have no bearing on Crossrail and its changes.
As for the 25 changes, that's another discussion in another thread quite frankly. They [TfL] didn't even have the cojones to at least send the route to Holborn station. This is all to do with the central London changes and not Crossrail. Don't worry folks, it's not as if I haven't deliberately using the 25 corridor to go home and collect some reconnaissance....you'll certainly be hearing from me about this hot potato topic!
Finally, if TfL are going to reroute 24-hour 474 away from Silvertown Way and into Kier Hardie Estate, then for heaven's sake send the N551 through Freemasons Road and New Barn Street! The route is actually better used along there than it is through Kier Hardie Estate when it was diverted long periods of time due to Crossrail works.
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Jul 8, 2017 11:17:08 GMT
Not much excitement here. The whole proposals for the area seem to generally be centered around Custom House area. 300 (with no Stratford extensions either), 241 and 474 get lot of links broken, is it really worth it  330 *finally* gets extended… merely for the sake of extending, really Wanstead Park end remains the same, the potential not used up  Yet 241 gets an extension at its other end, and what a useless one as well. I dunno what crowds are supposed to be at HereEast, but when only 388 served it, maybe 1-2-0 people ever got off/on. Then they got the bloody shuttle, and now they're meant another bus route?? The heck? It's gonna be SO overbussed, I do not support this at all. 🙄 304 I'm not too surprised about its creation, as no sane person ever does ride the current 104 end-to-end. If only 330 was extended to Leytonstone, then either 304 or 474 could be extended into its place at Wanstead Park, but lol no Havering got it way better: 497 a new route excitement  Good its creation was opted for rather than messing around with the 347 - leave it alone lol. And we have 174 become hellova a trunk. Am I the only one who wants N86 to be extended into Harold Wood? Would be rad and I don't know why it wasn't considered 256 to DD I absolutely support, I've seen what's going on in the peak around Harold Wood. A local enthusiast also told me of the only SDO decker that runs of it - apparently the users had to beg TfL A LOT to get it at all, as loads of people got left behind. They'll be overjoyed that their route will finally be taken care of properly Oh and for 25, somebody used their grey matter at least, as the eastern section remains thankfully intact. Cutting 25 to say Stratford would be such a p-take otherwise Holborn is just fine meanwhile. No N25 I presume? Or pedestrianisation effectively kills that off? |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 8, 2017 11:43:29 GMT
Oh and for 25, somebody used their grey matter at least, as the eastern section remains thankfully intact. Cutting 25 to say Stratford would be such a p-take otherwise Holborn is just fine meanwhile. No N25 I presume? Or pedestrianisation effectively kills that off? I think the 25 remains vulnerable. TfL have been relatively uncontroversial here but the Technical Note suggests they will be keeping an eye on what happens and it will be reviewed / amended again. The 86 has been left alone put seemingly only because of local authority pleading. I think this route will be under severe scrutiny by TfL and if people swap to rail services because of the enhanced frequency then the 86 will be reduced. TfL are aiming at a 5 min peak / 6 min off peak frequency on the Shenfield branch which is pretty attractive given the low fares off peak match / are close to the bus fare. The other thing that is lamentable in these changes is the lack of new routes into poorly served residential areas - nothing new north of Chadwell Heath or Seven Kings where there are "network holes". |
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Post by redexpress on Jul 8, 2017 12:57:05 GMT
The Harold Wood area changes are fine as is the 115 change. The 25 cut is disappointing as it leaves just one bus from the City to Oxford St - the Boilmaster operated 8. Another major frequency cut here - why bother increasing it in the short term? Seems completely pointless to restructure the route twice in less than 18 months. I don't understand the logic in re-routing the 300 and nor do TfL as they haven't explained why they are doing it. I'm not local to that bit of Newham but I am struggling with the reasoning for a lot of tinkering other than to serve Custom House. I struggle as to why Lonsdale Avenue will end up with 13.5 bph in each direction. I think if I lived there I'd not be overly happy with that - it's not exactly a main road. Looks like the 241 is axed purely to fund the extension in the Olympic Park and yet the 388s are not exactly packed out on departure from Stratford City so why provide 12 bph on this section? The rumoured extension of the 304 on from Manor Park to Stratford / Stratford City hasn't made the grade either. A real opportunity missed. Looks like West London is getting all the genuine new services and links. I assume the reason for the 300 reroute is to maintain the link between Canning Town and New Barn Street / Freemasons Road that is lost with the 241 curtailment. This does take the 300 away from Newham Hospital - I don't really know the area well enough to know if that's a problem. I agree the 241 changes seem a bit pointless. If one of the two routes to Here East (241/388) were to divert via Stratford International they'd at least be adding a new link, even if it's a minor one. The 25 cut wasn't unexpected, but leaving the 8 (and 521 on M-F) as the only route running east from Holborn is still pretty poor (especially for those of us who can't stand LTs). It's not as if Crossrail is of much use for the Holborn area. |
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Good its creation was opted for rather than messing around with the 347 - leave it alone lol. And we have 174 become hellova a trunk. Am I the only one who wants N86 to be extended into Harold Wood? Would be rad and I don't know why it wasn't considered 