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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 16, 2022 10:43:29 GMT
Following on from yesterday a more detailed reply. LOTS report the following for East London : Start date mid May but subject to change as we know! 101 as planned cut back to Beckton. 104 increased to every 8 mins and diverted to Beckton. Mixed diesel and hybrid allocation. 241 diverted to Prince Regent Station and extended to Royal Wharf at a later date when road layout issues resolved. There seems to be a mix up with this as they suggest the 241 will travel to Prince regent via Connaught Bridge and North Woolwich Road. This is of course wrong as Prince regent is before this! I do wonder if they might mean the 241 will stand somewhere around Connaught Bridge? If the 241 is indeed cut to Prince Regent it will probably have a temporary PVR cut. 262 as planned cut to Gallions Reach 300 as planned diverted via Freemasons Road 304 New route replacing part of the 104 using a mixture of diesel and hybrids. Now reported to be running from RR garage330 Extended to Connaught Bridge Charles street turning around on the roundabout 376 increased to every 12 mins 474 diverted via Keir Hardie replacing the 241 The 262 wasn't initially planned to be cut to Gallions Reach was it? Still, what some would call a compromise I'd still insist on a correction to lack of stand space. Completely forgot the 376's frequency will be upped to 5bph. Gonna be interesting as well as the 101 and 104 making Beckton bus station their new home. Is an asset really an asset if it's not being run over capacity?! The 474 swap still irritates me; why isn't the N551 sent over Silvertown Way to then pick up line of route at Prince Regent? West Silverton & Pontoon Dock have only increased in resident occupancy since the consultation started, surely they should have night coverage. Honestly do wonder how the buses will all fit on stand at Beckton. Currently you have two stands by the entrance, one stand opposite the pick-up stop towards East Beckton, one stand just before the stop towards East Beckton and three used exclusively by the 173 opposite the stop towards Stratford. That makes 7 in total. The 366 and 173 can have up to three on stand at a time, but often there are two. The 376 often has one. This takes up 5 stands, but more often all 7 are in use. The 376 will probably take an additional stand after this, making 6 spaces taken. Then the 104 will almost certainly have 2 at a time, probably edging towards 3 meaning around 8 spaces taken. This has already filled the stands up before bringing the 101 into the equation, which itself will need 2. Making it 10 spaces needed. If you add the 3 spots the 366, 104 and 173 will probably take up when they have three buses parked as opposed to two then you are scouring for 13 spaces in a bus station with 7 stands. It’s going to get very messy.
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Post by WH241 on Apr 16, 2022 10:59:16 GMT
Following on from yesterday a more detailed reply. LOTS report the following for East London : Start date mid May but subject to change as we know! 101 as planned cut back to Beckton. 104 increased to every 8 mins and diverted to Beckton. Mixed diesel and hybrid allocation. 241 diverted to Prince Regent Station and extended to Royal Wharf at a later date when road layout issues resolved. There seems to be a mix up with this as they suggest the 241 will travel to Prince regent via Connaught Bridge and North Woolwich Road. This is of course wrong as Prince regent is before this! I do wonder if they might mean the 241 will stand somewhere around Connaught Bridge? If the 241 is indeed cut to Prince Regent it will probably have a temporary PVR cut. 262 as planned cut to Gallions Reach 300 as planned diverted via Freemasons Road 304 New route replacing part of the 104 using a mixture of diesel and hybrids. Now reported to be running from RR garage330 Extended to Connaught Bridge Charles street turning around on the roundabout 376 increased to every 12 mins 474 diverted via Keir Hardie replacing the 241 The 262 wasn't initially planned to be cut to Gallions Reach was it? Still, what some would call a compromise I'd still insist on a correction to lack of stand space. Completely forgot the 376's frequency will be upped to 5bph. Gonna be interesting as well as the 101 and 104 making Beckton bus station their new home. Is an asset really an asset if it's not being run over capacity?! The 474 swap still irritates me; why isn't the N551 sent over Silvertown Way to then pick up line of route at Prince Regent? West Silverton & Pontoon Dock have only increased in resident occupancy since the consultation started, surely they should have night coverage. Nope the 262 was also planned to be cut back to Beckton Bus Station.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 16, 2022 12:04:13 GMT
They essentially used the topic of crossrail related changes to bring up overbussing east of Beckton. Their initial proposal left the 366 to work Beckton-East Beckton alone, however fortunately they conceded and maintained the 262 but only as far as Gallions Reach (101 stand) Crossrail did play a part but the 101,262 and 366 changes were proposed well after the initial Crossail bus changes that should have taken place in 2018. The 241 was subject a further change after the 2018 proposal.
Thankfully they backtracked on the 262 changes as the 366 would never have coped alone especially as its a single decker route.
Would the 262 be better just left continuing to East Beckton & then the 101 just cut back to Beckton? Must admit I wonder what impact these changes will have on car usage particularly in the case of the 101 when you consider it passes nearby dual carriageways such as the A13 & A406 which all inevitably pass nearby to Gallions Reach combined with free parking. Gallions Reach likely had some demand taken away by the opening of Westfield but surely not enough to generate such a situation like this?
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Post by WH241 on Apr 16, 2022 12:04:44 GMT
The 262 wasn't initially planned to be cut to Gallions Reach was it? Still, what some would call a compromise I'd still insist on a correction to lack of stand space. Completely forgot the 376's frequency will be upped to 5bph. Gonna be interesting as well as the 101 and 104 making Beckton bus station their new home. Is an asset really an asset if it's not being run over capacity?! The 474 swap still irritates me; why isn't the N551 sent over Silvertown Way to then pick up line of route at Prince Regent? West Silverton & Pontoon Dock have only increased in resident occupancy since the consultation started, surely they should have night coverage. Honestly do wonder how the buses will all fit on stand at Beckton. Currently you have two stands by the entrance, one stand opposite the pick-up stop towards East Beckton, one stand just before the stop towards East Beckton and three used exclusively by the 173 opposite the stop towards Stratford. That makes 7 in total. The 366 and 173 can have up to three on stand at a time, but often there are two. The 376 often has one. This takes up 5 stands, but more often all 7 are in use. The 376 will probably take an additional stand after this, making 6 spaces taken. Then the 104 will almost certainly have 2 at a time, probably edging towards 3 meaning around 8 spaces taken. This has already filled the stands up before bringing the 101 into the equation, which itself will need 2. Making it 10 spaces needed. If you add the 3 spots the 366, 104 and 173 will probably take up when they have three buses parked as opposed to two then you are scouring for 13 spaces in a bus station with 7 stands. It’s going to get very messy. I can’t think of anywhere suitable but wonder if a overflow space could be found? A bit like Crossharbour?
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Post by WH241 on Apr 16, 2022 12:10:05 GMT
Crossrail did play a part but the 101,262 and 366 changes were proposed well after the initial Crossail bus changes that should have taken place in 2018. The 241 was subject a further change after the 2018 proposal.
Thankfully they backtracked on the 262 changes as the 366 would never have coped alone especially as its a single decker route.
Would the 262 be better just left continuing to East Beckton & then the 101 just cut back to Beckton? Must admit I wonder what impact these changes will have on car usage particularly in the case of the 101 when you consider it passes nearby dual carriageways such as the A13 & A406 which all inevitably pass nearby to Gallions Reach combined with free parking. Gallions Reach likely had some demand taken away by the opening of Westfield but surely not enough to generate such a situation like this? It’s a done deal so unlikely to be further changes. TfL feel there is not enough demand from Beckton Sainsbury to Gallions Reach for two bus services, the 262 is a better compromise than just the 366 which was the original plan! The 101 only crosses the A13 at Beckton so can’t see a big switch to car plus also consider the areas it serves which is very dependent on buses.
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Post by enviroPB on Apr 16, 2022 12:31:33 GMT
Honestly do wonder how the buses will all fit on stand at Beckton. Currently you have two stands by the entrance, one stand opposite the pick-up stop towards East Beckton, one stand just before the stop towards East Beckton and three used exclusively by the 173 opposite the stop towards Stratford. That makes 7 in total. The 366 and 173 can have up to three on stand at a time, but often there are two. The 376 often has one. This takes up 5 stands, but more often all 7 are in use. The 376 will probably take an additional stand after this, making 6 spaces taken. Then the 104 will almost certainly have 2 at a time, probably edging towards 3 meaning around 8 spaces taken. This has already filled the stands up before bringing the 101 into the equation, which itself will need 2. Making it 10 spaces needed. If you add the 3 spots the 366, 104 and 173 will probably take up when they have three buses parked as opposed to two then you are scouring for 13 spaces in a bus station with 7 stands. It’s going to get very messy. I can’t think of anywhere suitable but wonder if a overflow space could be found? A bit like Crossharbour? The 366's old Savage Gardens stand is available, but it's rather circuitous from Beckton bus station to reach it. Even if TfL speak to Stagecoach over the 366 (it has no stand restrictions there), the bus station will struggle to cope. I've foreseen buses standing in the area opposite bus stop D at Beckton bus station, but honestly it's going to be a nightmare once the 101 and 104 move in.
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Post by busoccultation on Apr 16, 2022 12:44:10 GMT
The 262 wasn't initially planned to be cut to Gallions Reach was it? Still, what some would call a compromise I'd still insist on a correction to lack of stand space. Completely forgot the 376's frequency will be upped to 5bph. Gonna be interesting as well as the 101 and 104 making Beckton bus station their new home. Is an asset really an asset if it's not being run over capacity?! The 474 swap still irritates me; why isn't the N551 sent over Silvertown Way to then pick up line of route at Prince Regent? West Silverton & Pontoon Dock have only increased in resident occupancy since the consultation started, surely they should have night coverage. Honestly do wonder how the buses will all fit on stand at Beckton. Currently you have two stands by the entrance, one stand opposite the pick-up stop towards East Beckton, one stand just before the stop towards East Beckton and three used exclusively by the 173 opposite the stop towards Stratford. That makes 7 in total. The 366 and 173 can have up to three on stand at a time, but often there are two. The 376 often has one. This takes up 5 stands, but more often all 7 are in use. The 376 will probably take an additional stand after this, making 6 spaces taken. Then the 104 will almost certainly have 2 at a time, probably edging towards 3 meaning around 8 spaces taken. This has already filled the stands up before bringing the 101 into the equation, which itself will need 2. Making it 10 spaces needed. If you add the 3 spots the 366, 104 and 173 will probably take up when they have three buses parked as opposed to two then you are scouring for 13 spaces in a bus station with 7 stands. It’s going to get very messy. If TfL does remove the portable restroom opposite the stop towards Cyprus/Gallions Reach then 3 buses should be able to stand there plus the one behind that stop makes it 4 which should work for the 101/104 combined if there aren't too many buses of those routes at the same time. There is the two bus stand by the entrance on the right that is already used by the 366 & 376 and also the terminating stop A is long enough to accommodate one or two buses as a stand that can be used as an extra stand for the 366 & 376, with those 4 stands, plus the further 4 stands by Cyprus/Gallions Reach stops and adding the 3 bus stand used by the 173 takes that to 11 stands in Beckton or even 12 stands if the stop used by 173 and East Ham routes which is already long enough to partially convert as a stand for one more bus.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 16, 2022 13:21:37 GMT
Would the 262 be better just left continuing to East Beckton & then the 101 just cut back to Beckton? Must admit I wonder what impact these changes will have on car usage particularly in the case of the 101 when you consider it passes nearby dual carriageways such as the A13 & A406 which all inevitably pass nearby to Gallions Reach combined with free parking. Gallions Reach likely had some demand taken away by the opening of Westfield but surely not enough to generate such a situation like this? It’s a done deal so unlikely to be further changes. TfL feel there is not enough demand from Beckton Sainsbury to Gallions Reach for two bus services, the 262 is a better compromise than just the 366 which was the original plan! The 101 only crosses the A13 at Beckton so can’t see a big switch to car plus also consider the areas it serves which is very dependent on buses. Fair enough
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 16, 2022 14:23:48 GMT
Honestly do wonder how the buses will all fit on stand at Beckton. Currently you have two stands by the entrance, one stand opposite the pick-up stop towards East Beckton, one stand just before the stop towards East Beckton and three used exclusively by the 173 opposite the stop towards Stratford. That makes 7 in total. The 366 and 173 can have up to three on stand at a time, but often there are two. The 376 often has one. This takes up 5 stands, but more often all 7 are in use. The 376 will probably take an additional stand after this, making 6 spaces taken. Then the 104 will almost certainly have 2 at a time, probably edging towards 3 meaning around 8 spaces taken. This has already filled the stands up before bringing the 101 into the equation, which itself will need 2. Making it 10 spaces needed. If you add the 3 spots the 366, 104 and 173 will probably take up when they have three buses parked as opposed to two then you are scouring for 13 spaces in a bus station with 7 stands. It’s going to get very messy. If TfL does remove the portable restroom opposite the stop towards Cyprus/Gallions Reach then 3 buses should be able to stand there plus the one behind that stop makes it 4 which should work for the 101/104 combined if there aren't too many buses of those routes at the same time. There is the two bus stand by the entrance on the right that is already used by the 366 & 376 and also the terminating stop A is long enough to accommodate one or two buses as a stand that can be used as an extra stand for the 366 & 376, with those 4 stands, plus the further 4 stands by Cyprus/Gallions Reach stops and adding the 3 bus stand used by the 173 takes that to 11 stands in Beckton or even 12 stands if the stop used by 173 and East Ham routes which is already long enough to partially convert as a stand for one more bus. The portable restroom removal would only take the stand capacity to two, prior to its installation only two buses could fit there. Same for the stand opposite the alighting point, a third bus squeezing in would stick out of the stand. The only stand that can take 3 buses is the current 173 stand. The alighting point at a push can only accommodate 1 bus as a stand, certainly not two at all. The stop towards East Ham can have two buses at the stop at a time so probably won’t be converted into a stand.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2022 19:57:45 GMT
I'm sorry but TFL need to reconsider these changes. The drivers are not going to cope with all these buses terminating at Beckton and you're taking away links like 101 and 262 from East Beckton and Gallions Reach for no reason.
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Post by WH241 on Apr 16, 2022 20:04:50 GMT
I'm sorry but TFL need to reconsider these changes. The drivers are not going to cope with all these buses terminating at Beckton and you're taking away links like 101 and 262 from East Beckton and Gallions Reach for no reason. Are you local? Probably not! The plans are not well thought out but no way would TfL leave the routes as they are now they are in saving mode. The 262 staying is the best compromise we are going to get. Why can’t people accept the changes are happening no amount of discussion here will change a thing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2022 20:14:37 GMT
I'm sorry but TFL need to reconsider these changes. The drivers are not going to cope with all these buses terminating at Beckton and you're taking away links like 101 and 262 from East Beckton and Gallions Reach for no reason. Are you local? Probably not! The plans are not well thought out but no way would TfL leave the routes as they are now they are in saving mode. The 262 staying is the best compromise we are going to get. Why can’t people accept the changes are happening no amount of discussion here will change a thing. What does me being local or not have to do with this? Yes TFL are saving money but in the long term, I think drivers and passengers are going to be hurt by these changes.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 16, 2022 21:44:58 GMT
I'm sorry but TFL need to reconsider these changes. The drivers are not going to cope with all these buses terminating at Beckton and you're taking away links like 101 and 262 from East Beckton and Gallions Reach for no reason. Are you local? Probably not! The plans are not well thought out but no way would TfL leave the routes as they are now they are in saving mode. The 262 staying is the best compromise we are going to get. Why can’t people accept the changes are happening no amount of discussion here will change a thing. Must admit TFL have been relatively good with compromises lately ie the 143 remaining through Highgate Village & now the 262 staying as far as Gallions Reach.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 16, 2022 23:37:56 GMT
I'm sorry but TFL need to reconsider these changes. The drivers are not going to cope with all these buses terminating at Beckton and you're taking away links like 101 and 262 from East Beckton and Gallions Reach for no reason. Are you local? Probably not! The plans are not well thought out but no way would TfL leave the routes as they are now they are in saving mode. The 262 staying is the best compromise we are going to get. Why can’t people accept the changes are happening no amount of discussion here will change a thing. So people must stop voicing concerns against a proposal because it's been agreed and is going ahead? That's exactly the sort of thing TfL likes to hear. Sorry but I think people are well within their right to continue voicing concerns regardless of whether something goes ahead or not. I'm with you on the local aspect but outside of that, I disagree with you entirely.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 17, 2022 0:09:46 GMT
WH241 I know a bit unrelated to the discussion prior however as I know you are local, how did the days of the 541 having to run in place temporarily affect the 241s loadings through Keir Hardie Estate? Could this be a potential reason behind the cutback?
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