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Post by wirewiper on Jun 18, 2022 12:19:18 GMT
So reading that Ian Visits article. The frequency of the Abbey Wood branch is going to be cut from the present service every 5 minutes to 10 trains an hour? Yes - but that's still a train every 6 minutes (5 peaks), and there will be a train every 3 minutes (2-3 minutes peaks) between Whitechapel and Paddington. That will be the full service which is expected to operate from May 2023. And each train can carry up to 1,500 passengers which is nearly double the capacity of an average Underground train. Even then there is still potential for expansion, up to 30tph (possibly even more) could potentially operate through the central core, and the stations have been designed to take ten-car trains. The only weak link is how quickly trains terminating at Paddington from the east can be detrained - any delays here (for instance, a drink- or drug-impaired person refusing to leave the train) will impact on following services. And drivers will want the trains to be emptied of passengers for their own safety, as they will be walking through the trains to change ends as the train heads into the sidings to reverse (trains will be automated on this manoeuvre).
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Post by Busboy105 on Jun 18, 2022 12:29:50 GMT
Will the Elizabeth line keep it's platforms at Paddington and Liverpool Street when the Central core fully opens?
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Post by snowman on Jun 18, 2022 12:32:02 GMT
So reading that Ian Visits article. The frequency of the Abbey Wood branch is going to be cut from the present service every 5 minutes to 10 trains an hour? Yes - but that's still a train every 6 minutes (5 peaks), and there will be a train every 3 minutes (2-3 minutes peaks) between Whitechapel and Paddington. That will be the full service which is expected to operate from May 2023. And each train can carry up to 1,500 passengers which is nearly double the capacity of an average Underground train. Even then there is still potential for expansion, up to 30tph (possibly even more) could potentially operate through the central core, and the stations have been designed to take ten-car trains. The only weak link is how quickly trains terminating at Paddington from the east can be detrained - any delays here (for instance, a drink- or drug-impaired person refusing to leave the train) will impact on following services. And drivers will want the trains to be emptied of passengers for their own safety, as they will be walking through the trains to change ends as the train heads into the sidings to reverse (trains will be automated on this manoeuvre). Slight correction on the auto reverse at Westbourne Park. The drivers will be changing ends once in the sidings and returning to Paddington. If a preceding train has a problem and sidings are full, then next train might have to be rerouted onwards towards Old Oak at short notice, and if driver had already left the cab would cause a problem. At the moment auto reverse doesn’t work reliably, hence the reduced service of max 22tph (peak hour) under stage 5B minus (which will run from Autumn until May 2023). At 22tph non-automatic reversals can be done.
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Post by wirewiper on Jun 18, 2022 12:41:45 GMT
Will the Elizabeth line keep it's platforms at Paddington and Liverpool Street when the Central core fully opens? I assume you mean in the main line stations? A few peak-hour trains will terminate and start at Liverpool Street main line (I believe it will be 4tph Gidea Park shorts) which will only need one platform, otherwise the platforms currently used by Elizabeth Line trains will be freed up for other trains, or for emergency/engineering route diversions. There will be no Elizabeth Line trains from Paddington main line except when the Central Core is closed, for example engineering work or operational emergencies and likewise, these platforms will be freed up for other trains. Don't forget that GWR has a half-hourly stopping service to Didcot Parkway that stops at some of the Elizabeth Line stations en-route to Reading; this service usually uses platform 14 as this can accommodate the eight-car class 378 formations but not the 9-car Elizabeth Line trains. Platform 14 is difficult to access from the main concourse and the service may well move to platform 12 when these are freed up.
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Post by wirewiper on Jun 18, 2022 12:43:02 GMT
Yes - but that's still a train every 6 minutes (5 peaks), and there will be a train every 3 minutes (2-3 minutes peaks) between Whitechapel and Paddington. That will be the full service which is expected to operate from May 2023. And each train can carry up to 1,500 passengers which is nearly double the capacity of an average Underground train. Even then there is still potential for expansion, up to 30tph (possibly even more) could potentially operate through the central core, and the stations have been designed to take ten-car trains. The only weak link is how quickly trains terminating at Paddington from the east can be detrained - any delays here (for instance, a drink- or drug-impaired person refusing to leave the train) will impact on following services. And drivers will want the trains to be emptied of passengers for their own safety, as they will be walking through the trains to change ends as the train heads into the sidings to reverse (trains will be automated on this manoeuvre). Slight correction on the auto reverse at Westbourne Park. The drivers will be changing ends once in the sidings and returning to Paddington. If a preceding train has a problem and sidings are full, then next train might have to be rerouted onwards towards Old Oak at short notice, and if driver had already left the cab would cause a problem. At the moment auto reverse doesn’t work reliably, hence the reduced service of max 22tph (peak hour) under stage 5B minus (which will run from Autumn until May 2023). At 22tph non-automatic reversals can be done. Thank you for the additional info.
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Post by Busboy105 on Jun 18, 2022 14:50:24 GMT
Will the Elizabeth line keep it's platforms at Paddington and Liverpool Street when the Central core fully opens? I assume you mean in the main line stations? A few peak-hour trains will terminate and start at Liverpool Street main line (I believe it will be 4tph Gidea Park shorts) which will only need one platform, otherwise the platforms currently used by Elizabeth Line trains will be freed up for other trains, or for emergency/engineering route diversions. There will be no Elizabeth Line trains from Paddington main line except when the Central Core is closed, for example engineering work or operational emergencies and likewise, these platforms will be freed up for other trains. Don't forget that GWR has a half-hourly stopping service to Didcot Parkway that stops at some of the Elizabeth Line stations en-route to Reading; this service usually uses platform 14 as this can accommodate the eight-car class 378 formations but not the 9-car Elizabeth Line trains. Platform 14 is difficult to access from the main concourse and the service may well move to platform 12 when these are freed up. Thanks for the information
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Post by vjaska on Jun 18, 2022 15:05:17 GMT
So reading that Ian Visits article. The frequency of the Abbey Wood branch is going to be cut from the present service every 5 minutes to 10 trains an hour? Yes - but that's still a train every 6 minutes (5 peaks), and there will be a train every 3 minutes (2-3 minutes peaks) between Whitechapel and Paddington. That will be the full service which is expected to operate from May 2023. And each train can carry up to 1,500 passengers which is nearly double the capacity of an average Underground train. Even then there is still potential for expansion, up to 30tph (possibly even more) could potentially operate through the central core, and the stations have been designed to take ten-car trains. The only weak link is how quickly trains terminating at Paddington from the east can be detrained - any delays here (for instance, a drink- or drug-impaired person refusing to leave the train) will impact on following services. And drivers will want the trains to be emptied of passengers for their own safety, as they will be walking through the trains to change ends as the train heads into the sidings to reverse (trains will be automated on this manoeuvre). Slight correction, I believe the the stations are designed for 11 car trains in mind, still doesn't detract from the point of your post about expansion though
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Post by wirewiper on Jun 18, 2022 15:17:11 GMT
Yes - but that's still a train every 6 minutes (5 peaks), and there will be a train every 3 minutes (2-3 minutes peaks) between Whitechapel and Paddington. That will be the full service which is expected to operate from May 2023. And each train can carry up to 1,500 passengers which is nearly double the capacity of an average Underground train. Even then there is still potential for expansion, up to 30tph (possibly even more) could potentially operate through the central core, and the stations have been designed to take ten-car trains. The only weak link is how quickly trains terminating at Paddington from the east can be detrained - any delays here (for instance, a drink- or drug-impaired person refusing to leave the train) will impact on following services. And drivers will want the trains to be emptied of passengers for their own safety, as they will be walking through the trains to change ends as the train heads into the sidings to reverse (trains will be automated on this manoeuvre). Slight correction, I believe the the stations are designed for 11 car trains in mind, still doesn't detract from the point of your post about expansion though I think you are right - when I caught a train at Whitechapel* I went to a point which seemed to be around three-quarters of the way down the platform, and was surprised to find I had got in the rear car. * BTW - I love the Chantal Joffe murals. I'm very pleased with what TfL has managed to do at Whitechapel given it was such a constrained site.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jun 18, 2022 16:08:36 GMT
Further to my expression of shock at the collapse of my plans to ride it on October 29th, I have now booked a hotel for the night in the area on November 18th.
It is refundable until 28 days earlier.
On a lateral note, I am having doubts about whether I shall really have ideas for 3 trips next year with plenty of changes to ride. In this scenario, and if I refer new GA electrics to Arriva ENRs on route B13, I would postpone it until next year.
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Post by rif153 on Jun 18, 2022 16:24:31 GMT
Will the Elizabeth line keep it's platforms at Paddington and Liverpool Street when the Central core fully opens? I assume you mean in the main line stations? A few peak-hour trains will terminate and start at Liverpool Street main line (I believe it will be 4tph Gidea Park shorts) which will only need one platform, otherwise the platforms currently used by Elizabeth Line trains will be freed up for other trains, or for emergency/engineering route diversions. There will be no Elizabeth Line trains from Paddington main line except when the Central Core is closed, for example engineering work or operational emergencies and likewise, these platforms will be freed up for other trains. Don't forget that GWR has a half-hourly stopping service to Didcot Parkway that stops at some of the Elizabeth Line stations en-route to Reading; this service usually uses platform 14 as this can accommodate the eight-car class 378 formations but not the 9-car Elizabeth Line trains. Platform 14 is difficult to access from the main concourse and the service may well move to platform 12 when these are freed up. I can't help but think the services starting from the main line station at Liverpool Street heading straight to Stratford without stopping at Whitechapel may confuse some punters especially when the map will make it look as if all trains heading east stop at Whitechapel. Platform 14 at Paddington has been the bane of my existence for years as has the long-winded interchange from platforms 10-14 to the H&C and Circle lines. I can't wait for through trains though it'll be tinged with sadness when I see that side of Paddington station looking like a ghost town.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 18, 2022 16:30:03 GMT
Slight correction, I believe the the stations are designed for 11 car trains in mind, still doesn't detract from the point of your post about expansion though I think you are right - when I caught a train at Whitechapel* I went to a point which seemed to be around three-quarters of the way down the platform, and was surprised to find I had got in the rear car. * BTW - I love the Chantal Joffe murals. I'm very pleased with what TfL has managed to do at Whitechapel given it was such a constrained site. I only knew because of Geoff Marshall
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Post by wirewiper on Jun 18, 2022 16:43:44 GMT
I assume you mean in the main line stations? A few peak-hour trains will terminate and start at Liverpool Street main line (I believe it will be 4tph Gidea Park shorts) which will only need one platform, otherwise the platforms currently used by Elizabeth Line trains will be freed up for other trains, or for emergency/engineering route diversions. There will be no Elizabeth Line trains from Paddington main line except when the Central Core is closed, for example engineering work or operational emergencies and likewise, these platforms will be freed up for other trains. Don't forget that GWR has a half-hourly stopping service to Didcot Parkway that stops at some of the Elizabeth Line stations en-route to Reading; this service usually uses platform 14 as this can accommodate the eight-car class 378 formations but not the 9-car Elizabeth Line trains. Platform 14 is difficult to access from the main concourse and the service may well move to platform 12 when these are freed up. I can't help but think the services starting from the main line station at Liverpool Street heading straight to Stratford without stopping at Whitechapel may confuse some punters especially when the map will make it look as if all trains heading east stop at Whitechapel. Platform 14 at Paddington has been the bane of my existence for years as has the long-winded interchange from platforms 10-14 to the H&C and Circle lines. I can't wait for through trains though it'll be tinged with sadness when I see that side of Paddington station looking like a ghost town. I don't think it will confuse. I would expect the services operating to/from Liverpool Street main line will be shown on the map as a separate "branch" (and probably with a "peak times only" indication"). And peak time travellers tend to be clued up about their services. I imagine that very few casual travellers will go to Liverpool Street main line for an eastbound train anyway, they will use the Crossrail platforms. The only ones who might get caught out are London-bound travellers who unwittingly board one of the trains that terminates at LS main line. I know what you mean about platform 14 at Paddington. It seems a shame that it cannot be repurposed as a westbound platform for the Hammersmith & City Line, as that would eliminate virtually all of the crowding and conflicting passenger movements (try descending to the current platforms when a westbound evening peak train has just pulled in). The existing westbound track and platform could be repurposed as an emergency turnback facility, with trains able to enter and leave in both directions.
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Post by WH241 on Jun 18, 2022 19:18:05 GMT
Used the Elizabeth Line again today from Custom House to Tottenham Court Road. Not sure if I reported this already but the interchange from the DLR at Custom House in one way only towards the Elizabeth Line passengers heading in the other direction have to exit the main station then head to the DLR via the existing entrances. I think this might only be temporary as signage seems to be covered over on the new DLR bridge. I only realised today Tottenham Court Road has another exit (Dean Street) I used this today which is handy to get you a little further along Oxford Street.
One slight negative I find with the stations is just how deep underground they are and the long passages! It can you a good 5 or so minutes to get out if busy.
I used the Central Line also today and wow does the new line show how much the 92 stock needs a refurb.
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Post by ThinLizzy on Jun 18, 2022 19:54:43 GMT
I assume you mean in the main line stations? A few peak-hour trains will terminate and start at Liverpool Street main line (I believe it will be 4tph Gidea Park shorts) which will only need one platform, otherwise the platforms currently used by Elizabeth Line trains will be freed up for other trains, or for emergency/engineering route diversions. There will be no Elizabeth Line trains from Paddington main line except when the Central Core is closed, for example engineering work or operational emergencies and likewise, these platforms will be freed up for other trains. Don't forget that GWR has a half-hourly stopping service to Didcot Parkway that stops at some of the Elizabeth Line stations en-route to Reading; this service usually uses platform 14 as this can accommodate the eight-car class 378 formations but not the 9-car Elizabeth Line trains. Platform 14 is difficult to access from the main concourse and the service may well move to platform 12 when these are freed up. I can't help but think the services starting from the main line station at Liverpool Street heading straight to Stratford without stopping at Whitechapel may confuse some punters especially when the map will make it look as if all trains heading east stop at Whitechapel. Platform 14 at Paddington has been the bane of my existence for years as has the long-winded interchange from platforms 10-14 to the H&C and Circle lines. I can't wait for through trains though it'll be tinged with sadness when I see that side of Paddington station looking like a ghost town. They will just make "not stopping at Whitechapel" as part of the announcements or add "not all peak trains stop at Whitechapel" on the map. Not that confusing, most Metropolitan line passengers navigate their way around 'Fast," "Semi-fast" and "All Stations"
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jun 18, 2022 21:08:32 GMT
I promise that tonight I shall leave behind my frustration at CrossRail being closed on October 29th.
I may find it a useful day for a longer trip locally and November 19th fine for Woolwich.
Another fallback idea is in October to do other areas of south London I haven't covered for a while, such as Streatham & Croydon. I could even include route 319 and the Northern Line extension to Battersea.
So it could still prove to be a good Autumn after all.
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