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Post by Busboy105 on May 27, 2023 22:42:31 GMT
Could the trees that prevent the 465 being doubled decked be chopped down to allow the 465 to have double deckers? Is the 465 busy enough to justify double deckers? No but it does get packed when I've seen it (which is like twice on weekends)
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Post by northlondon83 on May 28, 2023 9:59:07 GMT
Could the trees that prevent the 465 being doubled decked be chopped down to allow the 465 to have double deckers? the 251 definitely needs decking but there's low tree problems too
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Post by twobellstogo on May 28, 2023 14:13:24 GMT
Could the trees that prevent the 465 being doubled decked be chopped down to allow the 465 to have double deckers? Is the 465 busy enough to justify double deckers? I’d say the K3 in the area justifies double deckers more. Unfortunately putting double deckers on the K3 would be an exceptionally terrible idea!
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Post by LondonExplorer316 on May 28, 2023 17:42:58 GMT
Is the 465 busy enough to justify double deckers? I’d say the K3 in the area justifies double deckers more. Unfortunately putting double deckers on the K3 would be an exceptionally terrible idea! Yes, Norbiton Bridge is too low for even BEs let alone full on deckers
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on May 28, 2023 17:44:35 GMT
I’d say the K3 in the area justifies double deckers more. Unfortunately putting double deckers on the K3 would be an exceptionally terrible idea! Yes, Norbiton Bridge is too low for even BEs let alone full on deckers It's not actually Norbiton which is too low for BEs, it is the Ewell Road bridge.
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Post by COBO on May 28, 2023 17:48:58 GMT
Could the trees that prevent the 465 being doubled decked be chopped down to allow the 465 to have double deckers? Is the 465 busy enough to justify double deckers? I don’t know. But I noticed in the past comments saying that double deckers do the full route because of the low trees and I’m wondering if there was a need for the 465 to have double deckers could those offending trees be sorted out. I ask because it’s related to a fantasy idea of extending the 465 somewhere and I think might require double deckers so i’m wondering if those offending trees could be sorted out.
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Post by vjaska on May 28, 2023 18:55:19 GMT
Is the 465 busy enough to justify double deckers? I don’t know. But I noticed in the past comments saying that double deckers do the full route because of the low trees and I’m wondering if there was a need for the 465 to have double deckers could those offending trees be sorted out. I ask because it’s related to a fantasy idea of extending the 465 somewhere and I think might require double deckers so i’m wondering if those offending trees could be sorted out. I don’t think the 465 is suitable for an extension to begin with given max running time is already 93 minutes long. The big issue with trees is in Mickleham at the bottom of the beautiful Box Hill - when the 65 running day was on, double deckers were re-routed via the Mickleham By-Pass to avoid the trees. If there is a problem with capacity, I think it would be better with a frequency increase
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Post by londonbuses on May 28, 2023 18:57:51 GMT
I’d say the K3 in the area justifies double deckers more. Unfortunately putting double deckers on the K3 would be an exceptionally terrible idea! Yes, Norbiton Bridge is too low for even BEs let alone full on deckers Norbiton Bridge is fine for BEs but 2 of the 4 routes that pass under it (the K3 and K5) go under different bridges that are too low, the K3 on Ewell Road (in Long Ditton) and the K5 (towards Ham only) on Queen Elizabeth Road.
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Post by martynl on Jun 1, 2023 23:06:59 GMT
Most TfL routes are fixed on either being DD or SD but some do have a bit of a mixture- the 126 and 289 for example. I've been on both with DD's and the passengers were glad of them. With all the new electrics coming into service so regularly there'll be a lot of perfectly serviceable Diesel and Hybrid DD's going spare- could these be used to fully convert current SD routes to DD where demand is needed and no restrictions are in place?
Ironically the 312 at TC also sees diesel DD operation a lot due to the embarrassing spectacle of it's Metrocity's sitting on charging points back at the garage! Progress eh?
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Post by COBO on Jun 2, 2023 0:24:36 GMT
Most TfL routes are fixed on either being DD or SD but some do have a bit of a mixture- the 126 and 289 for example. I've been on both with DD's and the passengers were glad of them. With all the new electrics coming into service so regularly there'll be a lot of perfectly serviceable Diesel and Hybrid DD's going spare- could these be used to fully convert current SD routes to DD where demand is needed and no restrictions are in place? Ironically the 312 at TC also sees diesel DD operation a lot due to the embarrassing spectacle of it's Metrocity's sitting on charging points back at the garage! Progress eh? It all depends on what plans the operator has for those diesels and hybrids and what age those hybrids and diesels are.
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Post by greenboy on Jun 2, 2023 5:20:09 GMT
Most TfL routes are fixed on either being DD or SD but some do have a bit of a mixture- the 126 and 289 for example. I've been on both with DD's and the passengers were glad of them. With all the new electrics coming into service so regularly there'll be a lot of perfectly serviceable Diesel and Hybrid DD's going spare- could these be used to fully convert current SD routes to DD where demand is needed and no restrictions are in place? Ironically the 312 at TC also sees diesel DD operation a lot due to the embarrassing spectacle of it's Metrocity's sitting on charging points back at the garage! Progress eh? What embarrassing spectacle? As long as a bus turns up most people couldn't care less about whether it's a single or double decker. The 312 was a perfect test-bed route for electric buses so yes it is progress.
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Post by abellion on Jun 2, 2023 7:01:44 GMT
Most TfL routes are fixed on either being DD or SD but some do have a bit of a mixture- the 126 and 289 for example. I've been on both with DD's and the passengers were glad of them. With all the new electrics coming into service so regularly there'll be a lot of perfectly serviceable Diesel and Hybrid DD's going spare- could these be used to fully convert current SD routes to DD where demand is needed and no restrictions are in place? Ironically the 312 at TC also sees diesel DD operation a lot due to the embarrassing spectacle of it's Metrocity's sitting on charging points back at the garage! Progress eh? Spare hybrids are useful for longer hybrid and part-hybrid contracts though rather than replacing buses which have no glaring issues. Also it comes with the question if TfL will be willing to keep all of these routes DD when they need new buses, the 152/163/164 for example were not lucky whilst the 80 and 200 got to keep their upgrades. It seems random, like with the 200 an SE would be leaving people behind in Colliers Wood in the evening but through it the daytime it can easily be strolling around empty. Similar to the 355 where parts of the route need the DDs at certain times but the route itself and adjacent ones are not struggling at all off peak and all the extra DD space would be a waste.
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Post by martynl on Jun 3, 2023 22:51:00 GMT
Most TfL routes are fixed on either being DD or SD but some do have a bit of a mixture- the 126 and 289 for example. I've been on both with DD's and the passengers were glad of them. With all the new electrics coming into service so regularly there'll be a lot of perfectly serviceable Diesel and Hybrid DD's going spare- could these be used to fully convert current SD routes to DD where demand is needed and no restrictions are in place? Ironically the 312 at TC also sees diesel DD operation a lot due to the embarrassing spectacle of it's Metrocity's sitting on charging points back at the garage! Progress eh? What embarrassing spectacle? As long as a bus turns up most people couldn't care less about whether it's a single or double decker. The 312 was a perfect test-bed route for electric buses so yes it is progress. I suppose what I was getting at was TfL were promoting the 312 as being run with clean and green electric buses and were in essence better for the environment than the buses they were replacing. The embarrassing part being that it's not a good look when those very buses are out of service for long periods and older, less environmentally friendly, buses are drafted in to ensure the service is maintained. And yes, I get your point that the everyday punters don't care what bus runs the route as long as it gets them home. Incidentally, when does the contract come up for the 312? Presumably new electrics would be ordered by whoever wins the contract?
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Post by COBO on Jun 3, 2023 23:00:14 GMT
What embarrassing spectacle? As long as a bus turns up most people couldn't care less about whether it's a single or double decker. The 312 was a perfect test-bed route for electric buses so yes it is progress. I suppose what I was getting at was TfL were promoting the 312 as being run with clean and green electric buses and were in essence better for the environment than the buses they were replacing. The embarrassing part being that it's not a good look when those very buses are out of service for long periods and older, less environmentally friendly, buses are drafted in to ensure the service is maintained. And yes, I get your point that the everyday punters don't care what bus runs the route as long as it gets them home. Incidentally, when does the contract come up for the 312? Presumably new electrics would be ordered by whoever wins the contract? 2025 (or 2027 if it gets a 2 year extension).
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Post by greenboy on Jun 4, 2023 8:42:02 GMT
What embarrassing spectacle? As long as a bus turns up most people couldn't care less about whether it's a single or double decker. The 312 was a perfect test-bed route for electric buses so yes it is progress. I suppose what I was getting at was TfL were promoting the 312 as being run with clean and green electric buses and were in essence better for the environment than the buses they were replacing. The embarrassing part being that it's not a good look when those very buses are out of service for long periods and older, less environmentally friendly, buses are drafted in to ensure the service is maintained. And yes, I get your point that the everyday punters don't care what bus runs the route as long as it gets them home. Incidentally, when does the contract come up for the 312? Presumably new electrics would be ordered by whoever wins the contract? I'm not aware of TfL doing much promoting of the 312 and when the EMC's were introduced about 8 years ago I think it was very much a case of suck it and see and obviously electric buses have advanced considerably since then. The 312 was a perfect testbed being a short route that terminates at the garage so it was easy to switch buses around as required. I think the current contract has a few years left to run but I would imagine new buses will be ordered when it's retendered if Arriva retain it. There is a proposal to extend the 312 to Purley Old Lodge Lane but whether that will ever happen remains to be seen.
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