|
|
Post by vjaska on Mar 6, 2018 18:56:16 GMT
I certainly agree with that, speeds up the 358 a bit and gives a direct link between Crystal Palace and Elmers End without further expense and quite honestly Beckenham Road is overbussed anyway. I'd go a bit further and suggest axing the 356, a funny little route that doesn't serve any major town centres and reroute the 354 via Marlow Road and extend it from Penge to Sydenham Hill. The Elmers End to Shirley bit is covered by the 194, apart from Monks Orchard Road, which is more than adequate. Extend the 176 to Anerley Station and cut the 249 and 432 back to Crystal Palace with more stand space on the parade and a u turn facility for buses like at Waterloo. Sounds good to me. I’m afraid I don’t share your optimism - Crystal Palace has plenty of terminating routes as it is and very few through routes - cutting the 249 & 432 reduces capacity along the Anerley Road corridor and leaves Crystal Palace with just one through route (450). Before anyone says, “hopper fare”, try waiting at Crystal Palace Bus Station - it’s on top of a high part of South London that is susceptible to wind & rain and makes waiting there not very pleasant at times. You lose very handy & used links between parts of Lambeth & Croydon with Anerley and there is further potential to exploit by extending the 432 down to Elmers End not only giving that direct link with Palace & Birkbeck but a link into Lambeth as well. Diverting the 358 heaps extra pressure onto the already busy 227 - there’s a good reason why the 358 has practically remained unchanged throughout its existence. As for the U-turn facility, there was one but was removed when the bus station was built so it’s unlikely to come back. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2018 10:08:58 GMT
I would reroute the 358 between Elmers End and Anerley direct via Birkbeck. The 194 covers the Beckenham and Penge bit anyway. The problem with that is the 358 currently provides a nice bit of help to the 227 for Crystal Palace bound passengers - take that away from Beckenham Road and the 227 becomes even more busy than it is currently. The direct link can be easily provided by extending the 432 which creates some nice new links with Birkbeck from within Lambeth. Three routes really aren't justified on Beckenham Road (four if you include the 354) and if cuts need to be made............................................................... |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Mar 7, 2018 12:06:00 GMT
The problem with that is the 358 currently provides a nice bit of help to the 227 for Crystal Palace bound passengers - take that away from Beckenham Road and the 227 becomes even more busy than it is currently. The direct link can be easily provided by extending the 432 which creates some nice new links with Birkbeck from within Lambeth. Three routes really aren't justified on Beckenham Road (four if you include the 354) and if cuts need to be made............................................................... Both the 227 & 358 are busy along here and the minute you take either one out, you pile the pressure on the route left behind. The 194 & 354 provides unique links that the other two routes don't. Looking for so called empty buses as a measure for cuts is quite dangerous and you end up doing long term damage to the network |
|
|
|
Post by sid on Mar 7, 2018 13:00:11 GMT
The problem with that is the 358 currently provides a nice bit of help to the 227 for Crystal Palace bound passengers - take that away from Beckenham Road and the 227 becomes even more busy than it is currently. The direct link can be easily provided by extending the 432 which creates some nice new links with Birkbeck from within Lambeth. Three routes really aren't justified on Beckenham Road (four if you include the 354) and if cuts need to be made............................................................... Agreed, look at disparity between Beckenham Road and parallel Elmers End Road, three routes do the length of the former and none the latter. |
|
|
|
Post by sid on May 6, 2018 8:45:49 GMT
28
Reverted to former route, Wandsworth to West Hampstead.
31
Reverted to former route, Camden Town to Chelsea.
328
Route withdrawn.
452
Rerouted between Notting Hill Gate and Kensal Rise via the current 28 route.
*Routes 28 and 31 both 8bph
*White City section is lost but loadings are light and alternatives are available.
* West Hampstead to Golders Green section adequately covered by the 139.
|
|
|
|
Post by busaholic on May 6, 2018 17:19:34 GMT
28 Reverted to former route, Wandsworth to West Hampstead. 31 Reverted to former route, Camden Town to Chelsea. 328 Route withdrawn. 452 Rerouted between Notting Hill Gate and Kensal Rise via the current 28 route. *Routes 28 and 31 both 8bph *White City section is lost but loadings are light and alternatives are available. * West Hampstead to Golders Green section adequately covered by the 139. With the possible exception of the loss of the 28 between GG and WH I'd go along with that. |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on May 6, 2018 18:29:07 GMT
28 Reverted to former route, Wandsworth to West Hampstead. 31 Reverted to former route, Camden Town to Chelsea. 328 Route withdrawn. 452 Rerouted between Notting Hill Gate and Kensal Rise via the current 28 route. *Routes 28 and 31 both 8bph *White City section is lost but loadings are light and alternatives are available. * West Hampstead to Golders Green section adequately covered by the 139. With the possible exception of the loss of the 28 between GG and WH I'd go along with that. Then expect reliability to go to pot as a result - there was a very good reason why the 28 was cut back and the 328 introduced - since then, traffic has increased significantly, particularly along the one way system through Earls Court and along Kensington Church Street. It’s all very well wanting these long routes to return (I’d love to see it happen) but people need to accept the reality that they are no longer workable without significantly reducing congestion on the roads. |
|
|
|
Post by sid on May 6, 2018 18:50:33 GMT
28 Reverted to former route, Wandsworth to West Hampstead. 31 Reverted to former route, Camden Town to Chelsea. 328 Route withdrawn. 452 Rerouted between Notting Hill Gate and Kensal Rise via the current 28 route. *Routes 28 and 31 both 8bph *White City section is lost but loadings are light and alternatives are available. * West Hampstead to Golders Green section adequately covered by the 139. With the possible exception of the loss of the 28 between GG and WH I'd go along with that. Fair enough but I can't see the justification for two routes between GG and WH. |
|
|
|
Post by COBO on May 6, 2018 18:51:11 GMT
I would like to turn the ULEZ expansion into a congestion zone. This would hopefully reduce the amount of Traffic in London and give TfL more money.
Cut the amount of routes on Oxford Street.
I would like to turn low emission bus zones into bus / Taxi / Cycle turns.
I would like to convert some routes that have single decks into double decks so that I cut there frequencies like example the 95 and 487.
|
|
|
|
Post by sid on May 6, 2018 18:54:24 GMT
With the possible exception of the loss of the 28 between GG and WH I'd go along with that. Then expect reliability to go to pot as a result - there was a very good reason why the 28 was cut back and the 328 introduced - since then, traffic has increased significantly, particularly along the one way system through Earls Court and along Kensington Church Street. It’s all very well wanting these long routes to return (I’d love to see it happen) but people need to accept the reality that they are no longer workable without significantly reducing congestion on the roads. The 28 would be about the same length as the 27 and that runs perfectly well. The 328 may have been justified when bus usage was on the up but as we all know it is now in decline and the Kensington to Westbourne Park section is seriously over bussed and this proposal keeps 8bph on the 31. |
|
|
|
Post by busaholic on May 6, 2018 21:03:08 GMT
With the possible exception of the loss of the 28 between GG and WH I'd go along with that. Fair enough but I can't see the justification for two routes between GG and WH. Was the 139 to GG not (a) a sop to those who used to catch a 13 from GG and Childs Hill to Oxford Circus and beyond and (b) putting into public service what would be 'dead runs' in many instances? The Kilburn connection to Golders Green is a very long established one, and must still be used by many. Terminate half the 139s at West End Green instead, as used to happen in Routemaster days. |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on May 6, 2018 22:11:50 GMT
Fair enough but I can't see the justification for two routes between GG and WH. Was the 139 to GG not (a) a sop to those who used to catch a 13 from GG and Childs Hill to Oxford Circus and beyond and (b) putting into public service what would be 'dead runs' in many instances? The Kilburn connection to Golders Green is a very long established one, and must still be used by many. Terminate half the 139s at West End Green instead, as used to happen in Routemaster days. Your right in that it was a consolation extension to Golders Green to make up for the 13 running to Victoria instead but I don't think it has anything to do with 139's dead running - 139's from West Hampstead would dead run via the C11 to Cricklewood along Mill Lane and then onto W further up. |
|
|
|
Post by sid on May 9, 2018 14:17:59 GMT
OTOH if that would make the 28 too long (debatable?) it could stay as it is with an increase to 8bph and the 452 could be rerouted to West Hampstead, the 52 is surely adequate between NHG and Kensal Rise. At the other end reroute the 452 via the C1 route to Victoria and send the C1 to Vauxhall. This obviously puts double deckers on the busy Victoria section although single deckers seem quite adequate for the rest of the C1 route.
|
|
|
|
Post by busaholic on May 9, 2018 23:07:54 GMT
OTOH if that would make the 28 too long (debatable?) it could stay as it is with an increase to 8bph and the 452 could be rerouted to West Hampstead, the 52 is surely adequate between NHG and Kensal Rise. At the other end reroute the 452 via the C1 route to Victoria and send the C1 to Vauxhall. This obviously puts double deckers on the busy Victoria section although single deckers seem quite adequate for the rest of the C1 route. Reinstating the alternative (to the 52) connection from north of Notting Hill to Victoria that used to exist with the 46 up to about fifty years ago! I LIKE IT! Maybe the first time that, since prewar days at least, Notting Hill would have three bus links with Victoria. |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on May 9, 2018 23:30:07 GMT
OTOH if that would make the 28 too long (debatable?) it could stay as it is with an increase to 8bph and the 452 could be rerouted to West Hampstead, the 52 is surely adequate between NHG and Kensal Rise. At the other end reroute the 452 via the C1 route to Victoria and send the C1 to Vauxhall. This obviously puts double deckers on the busy Victoria section although single deckers seem quite adequate for the rest of the C1 route. Reinstating the alternative (to the 52) connection from north of Notting Hill to Victoria that used to exist with the 46 up to about fifty years ago! I LIKE IT! Maybe the first time that, since prewar days at least, Notting Hill would have three bus links with Victoria. However, if it means having a single decker route shadowing the busy 137 between Knightsbridge & Lavender Hill & then shadowing the equally busy 77 & 87 along Wandsworth Road, then I'd much rather stick with the current situation. The 452 is very useful in it's current form since it's introduction and was recently extended to help the 77 & 87 which suffer during the peaks - I was quite susceptible about that change but it does help having the extra route along there. |
|
