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Post by 6HP502C on May 9, 2018 23:42:38 GMT
The problem with that is the 358 currently provides a nice bit of help to the 227 for Crystal Palace bound passengers - take that away from Beckenham Road and the 227 becomes even more busy than it is currently. The direct link can be easily provided by extending the 432 which creates some nice new links with Birkbeck from within Lambeth. Three routes really aren't justified on Beckenham Road (four if you include the 354) and if cuts need to be made............................................................... There is a little give on that corridor during the peaks, but the 227s are packed. Take away a whole route and there'd be insufficent capacity to meet demand. |
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Post by rmz19 on May 10, 2018 0:06:09 GMT
28 Reverted to former route, Wandsworth to West Hampstead. 31 Reverted to former route, Camden Town to Chelsea. 328 Route withdrawn. 452 Rerouted between Notting Hill Gate and Kensal Rise via the current 28 route. *Routes 28 and 31 both 8bph *White City section is lost but loadings are light and alternatives are available. * West Hampstead to Golders Green section adequately covered by the 139. Regarding the 28/31/328, I would keep things the way they are. Fair enough, reverting the 28 and 31 to their former routes as you mention shouldn't be problematic regarding running time and route length, the latter being ~8 miles for both, but the introduction of the 328 was a sensible idea as it relieves pressure off the 28 and 31 and is a welcoming assistance along the busy Westbourne Park/Notting Hill corridor. If cuts must be made then reducing their frequencies would be much wiser than cutting/withdrawing routes that provide useful links. In this case, the 328 could be reduced to x8-12 mins, the 31 to x8-10 mins at a push, the 28 is currently adequate. I personally don't think the Harrow Road - Notting Hill Gate corridor is overbussed as it's a relatively short section with all routes along there converging/diverging from/to unique areas respective to each route, as is usually the case with corridors served by several bus routes. The 452 is also a useful assistance to the busy 52, though there is more scope for modifying the 452. TFL's ridiculous proposal for the 452 aside, I would personally reroute it at its northern end alongside the 18 to Willesden Junction, I would also reroute it at its southern end to Vauxhall by swapping routings with the 156, making the 452 more direct as a result. I acknowledge the 87 and 156 would share a large overlap, but it shouldn't be a problem. |
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Post by vjaska on May 10, 2018 1:12:25 GMT
28 Reverted to former route, Wandsworth to West Hampstead. 31 Reverted to former route, Camden Town to Chelsea. 328 Route withdrawn. 452 Rerouted between Notting Hill Gate and Kensal Rise via the current 28 route. *Routes 28 and 31 both 8bph *White City section is lost but loadings are light and alternatives are available. * West Hampstead to Golders Green section adequately covered by the 139. Regarding the 28/31/328, I would keep things the way they are. Fair enough, reverting the 28 and 31 to their former routes as you mention shouldn't be problematic regarding running time and route length, the latter being ~8 miles for both, but the introduction of the 328 was a sensible idea as it relieves pressure off the 28 and 31 and is a welcoming assistance along the busy Westbourne Park/Notting Hill corridor. If cuts must be made then reducing their frequencies would be much wiser than cutting/withdrawing routes that provide useful links. In this case, the 328 could be reduced to x8-12 mins, the 31 to x8-10 mins at a push, the 28 is currently adequate. I personally don't think the Harrow Road - Notting Hill Gate corridor is overbussed as it's a relatively short section with all routes along there converging/diverging from/to unique areas respective to each route, as is usually the case with corridors served by several bus routes. The 452 is also a useful assistance to the busy 52, though there is more scope for modifying the 452. TFL's ridiculous proposal for the 452 aside, I would personally reroute it at its northern end alongside the 18 to Willesden Junction, I would also reroute it at its southern end to Vauxhall by swapping routings with the 156, making the 452 more direct as a result. I acknowledge the 87 and 156 would share a large overlap, but it shouldn't be a problem. Some good & interesting ideas there though my only issue with swapping the 156 & 452 routings is Queenstown Road loses two routes without replacement which leaves the busy 137 on it's own and the link to Battersea Park Station and Nine Elms as well. |
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Post by sid on May 10, 2018 5:42:58 GMT
28 Reverted to former route, Wandsworth to West Hampstead. 31 Reverted to former route, Camden Town to Chelsea. 328 Route withdrawn. 452 Rerouted between Notting Hill Gate and Kensal Rise via the current 28 route. *Routes 28 and 31 both 8bph *White City section is lost but loadings are light and alternatives are available. * West Hampstead to Golders Green section adequately covered by the 139. Regarding the 28/31/328, I would keep things the way they are. Fair enough, reverting the 28 and 31 to their former routes as you mention shouldn't be problematic regarding running time and route length, the latter being ~8 miles for both, but the introduction of the 328 was a sensible idea as it relieves pressure off the 28 and 31 and is a welcoming assistance along the busy Westbourne Park/Notting Hill corridor. If cuts must be made then reducing their frequencies would be much wiser than cutting/withdrawing routes that provide useful links. In this case, the 328 could be reduced to x8-12 mins, the 31 to x8-10 mins at a push, the 28 is currently adequate. I personally don't think the Harrow Road - Notting Hill Gate corridor is overbussed as it's a relatively short section with all routes along there converging/diverging from/to unique areas respective to each route, as is usually the case with corridors served by several bus routes. The 452 is also a useful assistance to the busy 52, though there is more scope for modifying the 452. TFL's ridiculous proposal for the 452 aside, I would personally reroute it at its northern end alongside the 18 to Willesden Junction, I would also reroute it at its southern end to Vauxhall by swapping routings with the 156, making the 452 more direct as a result. I acknowledge the 87 and 156 would share a large overlap, but it shouldn't be a problem. Whatever way you look at it the Kensington to Westbourne Park section is overbussed, I'm not sure that the 328 was needed in the first place even before the decline set in. Reducing the 31, as TfL propose, and the busy Camden Town section is going to suffer. Keeping the 31 at 8bph and increasing the 28 slightly to 8bph obviously gives 16bph on the common section which should be more than adequate. If the 452 were withdrawn completely I don't think it would be greatly missed however rerouting it to West Hampstead in place of the 328 gives it a bit of purpose rather than just duplicating the 52 to Kensal Rise. The Sloane Square to Vauxhall section is pretty dead hence my suggestion of rerouting it to Victoria and sending the single decker C1 to Vauxhall, and I agree about rerouting it direct between Battersea Park station and Vauxhall. I think the 156 could stay as it is and maybe a peak hour only extension, although TfL don't like them, of the 417 to Sloane Square? |
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Post by sid on May 10, 2018 8:10:51 GMT
Three routes really aren't justified on Beckenham Road (four if you include the 354) and if cuts need to be made............................................................... There is a little give on that corridor during the peaks, but the 227s are packed. Take away a whole route and there'd be insufficent capacity to meet demand. Surely just increase the frequency on the 227 if necessary? Maybe go back to alternate buses turning at Penge Crooked Billet? TfL's standardisation policy is a luxury that can no longer be justified. I don't really see the point of the 194 and 358 duplicating each other between Penge and Eden Park. |
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Post by vjaska on May 10, 2018 11:11:21 GMT
It would be great if those suggesting cuts to routes would be aware that you don't judge how useful a bus route is by whether it's rammed to the doors or not nor does it mean the existing bus network is no longer useful either.
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Post by busaholic on May 10, 2018 22:42:21 GMT
There is a little give on that corridor during the peaks, but the 227s are packed. Take away a whole route and there'd be insufficent capacity to meet demand. Surely just increase the frequency on the 227 if necessary? Maybe go back to alternate buses turning at Penge Crooked Billet? TfL's standardisation policy is a luxury that can no longer be justified. I don't really see the point of the 194 and 358 duplicating each other between Penge and Eden Park. Why was the 194 rerouted that way in the first place? Wasn't it a 'temporary' move that became permanent? |
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Post by sid on May 11, 2018 3:55:43 GMT
Surely just increase the frequency on the 227 if necessary? Maybe go back to alternate buses turning at Penge Crooked Billet? TfL's standardisation policy is a luxury that can no longer be justified. I don't really see the point of the 194 and 358 duplicating each other between Penge and Eden Park. Why was the 194 rerouted that way in the first place? Wasn't it a 'temporary' move that became permanent? Yes, the 194 was diverted via Beckenham Road in the late 80's when a weight restriction was imposed on the bridge at Elmers End station, it's long since been rebuilt but for whatever reason the 194 didn't return to it's original route and all these years later Elmers End Road is still poorly served whilst Beckenham Road is overloaded with buses. |
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Post by ADH45258 on May 11, 2018 14:33:58 GMT
Cuts to Underground:
Restructure the service patterns on most lines to provide maximum frequency on the core sections. Specific sections will depend on where trains can terminate. The less-busy outer sections would then have a frequency reduction. No additional trains are needed - this may be especially useful on the Jubilee & Northern lines where a supplementary fleet has not been ordered.
e.g. Jubilee Line - Cut back about half of all trains to West Hampstead, and to North Greenwich at the other end.
From experience - the Jubilee line seems to almost halve in passenger volume on northbound services in the peak after West Hampstead. Similarly, terminating at North Greenwich ensures a maximum capacity to/from Canary Wharf.
The Stratford to North Greenwich section has the DLR alongside partly, and some capacity on the east section of the line will be relieved by the Elizabeth Line to Stratford and Canary Wharf. The Elizabeth Line (as well as the Central Line) will be a faster link from Stratford to central London anyway.
The section to Stanmore would retain a train about every 5 mins. Terminating at West Hampstead also retains a frequent service for interchange to the Metropolitan Line at Finchley Road.
Not sure where Northern Line trains can terminate, but a similar scheme could take place to increase capacity through central London and to cover the Battersea extension.
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Post by galwhv69 on May 11, 2018 17:06:55 GMT
Not sure where Northern Line trains can terminate, but a similar scheme could take place to increase capacity through central London and to cover the Battersea extension. Maybe Tooting Broadway in the south as it has a reversible siding(or whatever you call it these days  ) Golders Green for Edgware branch as it has a depot and I believe a turning point Finchley Central for High Barnet & Mill Hill East branch |
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Post by sid on May 11, 2018 17:09:10 GMT
Not sure where Northern Line trains can terminate, but a similar scheme could take place to increase capacity through central London and to cover the Battersea extension. Maybe Tooting Broadway in the south as it has a reversible siding(or whatever you call it these days ) Golders Green for Edgware branch as it has a depot and I believe a turning point Finchley Central for High Barnet & Mill Hill East branch Golders Green is easy as there's a spare platform, there is also a reversing siding at Colindale. |
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Post by snoggle on May 11, 2018 17:32:35 GMT
Cuts to Underground: Restructure the service patterns on most lines to provide maximum frequency on the core sections. Specific sections will depend on where trains can terminate. The less-busy outer sections would then have a frequency reduction. No additional trains are needed - this may be especially useful on the Jubilee & Northern lines where a supplementary fleet has not been ordered. e.g. Jubilee Line - Cut back about half of all trains to West Hampstead, and to North Greenwich at the other end. From experience - the Jubilee line seems to almost halve in passenger volume on northbound services in the peak after West Hampstead. Similarly, terminating at North Greenwich ensures a maximum capacity to/from Canary Wharf. The Stratford to North Greenwich section has the DLR alongside partly, and some capacity on the east section of the line will be relieved by the Elizabeth Line to Stratford and Canary Wharf. The Elizabeth Line (as well as the Central Line) will be a faster link from Stratford to central London anyway. The section to Stanmore would retain a train about every 5 mins. Terminating at West Hampstead also retains a frequent service for interchange to the Metropolitan Line at Finchley Road. Not sure where Northern Line trains can terminate, but a similar scheme could take place to increase capacity through central London and to cover the Battersea extension. A revised service pattern starts on the Jubilee Line a week on Sunday which does exactly what you say - more West Hampstead and North Greenwich terminators. It also means platform 13 at Stratford will be out of use for much of the day as drivers will step back on P14/15. The peak hour service level will operate for longer hours though so that's probably NOT a saving overall. It's about trying to handle crowds across the core of the line. It will, though, be interesting to see how the Stratford flow is handled as trains are very busy most of the day with decent boarding / alighting at Canning Town and West Ham. The DLR is not exactly devoid of passengers either so it's got limited room to absorb displaced JLE pax and it's nowhere near as frequent as the Jubilee Line. |
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Post by southlondonbus on May 11, 2018 19:18:06 GMT
I didn't know any trains terminated at West Hampstead. I thought it was Willesden Green and Wembley Park.
The Northern line would struggle south of Tooting Broadway as trains to Morden often arrive with still heavy loads.
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Post by snoggle on May 11, 2018 19:35:35 GMT
I didn't know any trains terminated at West Hampstead. I thought it was Willesden Green and Wembley Park. The Northern line would struggle south of Tooting Broadway as trains to Morden often arrive with still heavy loads. They have changed the track alignment slightly at West Hampstead to allow faster moves in and out of the siding. This is why it's being brought back into use for regular turns. Was certainly used many years ago before the JLE was brought into service and trains terminated at Charing Cross. Have to say I'm a tad sceptical about using West Hampstead regularly but we will see what transpires in a week or so!! You won't ever get regular turns at Tooting Broadway. It would take far too long and would screw the service completely given TfL are aiming for 30+ tph in the peaks and not much less off peak. |
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Post by londonbuses2018 on May 11, 2018 20:10:16 GMT
13 Cut back to Golders Green still goes to Victoria
139 Extended to North Finchley still goes to Waterloo
withdraw the 460 and extended the 260 to North Finchley but cutting it back to North Acton Station, I think mergering the 460 and 260 would make one long route.
Postponeing any Tube Line Extensions until 2030 or 2035
Advertise on the TV about news meaning TFL gets paid
Reintroduce Cash on Buses alongside the Contactless System.
Reintroduce Drink and snack machines most of the money would go to TFL and the rest to the company providing the drinks and snacks.
rebrand TFL into London Transport
bring back liveries
Introduce a new idea of Bus Routes being Operated two companies.
whatever I can do to stop cuts.
Merge the Circle, Hammersmith and City, District and Metropolitan Lines
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