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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 8:20:22 GMT
There is a little give on that corridor during the peaks, but the 227s are packed. Take away a whole route and there'd be insufficent capacity to meet demand. Surely just increase the frequency on the 227 if necessary? Maybe go back to alternate buses turning at Penge Crooked Billet? TfL's standardisation policy is a luxury that can no longer be justified. I don't really see the point of the 194 and 358 duplicating each other between Penge and Eden Park. The main reason being Beckenham. |
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Post by sid on May 14, 2018 8:31:22 GMT
Surely just increase the frequency on the 227 if necessary? Maybe go back to alternate buses turning at Penge Crooked Billet? TfL's standardisation policy is a luxury that can no longer be justified. I don't really see the point of the 194 and 358 duplicating each other between Penge and Eden Park. The main reason being Beckenham. I don't understand your point, the 194 and 358 barely serve Beckenham. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 13:07:33 GMT
The main reason being Beckenham. I don't understand your point, the 194 and 358 barely serve Beckenham. If you mean they don't traverse the High Street or the Station that's correct. They do of course stop at the War Memorial, which is a short walk from the lower part of the town and they both pass a very busy "cottage" hospital, which has a minor injury drop in service (amongst other facilities). So they do serve Beckenham. Your point about their common path though is interesting. I've long wondered whether having one of these routes going via Elmers End Rd would work, but would favour an extension to the 432 for that purpose. Generally though I find the 194 a lightly loaded route apart (schools excepted,) |
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Post by sid on May 14, 2018 13:46:37 GMT
I don't understand your point, the 194 and 358 barely serve Beckenham. If you mean they don't traverse the High Street or the Station that's correct. They do of course stop at the War Memorial, which is a short walk from the lower part of the town and they both pass a very busy "cottage" hospital, which has a minor injury drop in service (amongst other facilities). So they do serve Beckenham. Your point about their common path though is interesting. I've long wondered whether having one of these routes going via Elmers End Rd would work, but would favour an extension to the 432 for that purpose. Generally though I find the 194 a lightly loaded route apart (schools excepted,) I meant to say they barely serve Beckenham town centre. The original idea was to reroute the 358 via Elmers End Road which seems a sensible move and obviously improves journey times. I've also found that section of the 194 very quiet indeed. |
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Post by ronnie on May 15, 2018 23:29:30 GMT
Another route which I think might disappear at some stage is 242. Nowadays, the buses seem to be almost fully empty west of Liverpool Street, ever since the curtailment to St. Paul’s. Previously, it used to be fairly well used till Tottenham Court Road. Not sure about the eastern end but the hack has rendered at least the western end quite useless
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Post by wirewiper on May 16, 2018 11:00:10 GMT
Another route which I think might disappear at some stage is 242. Nowadays, the buses seem to be almost fully empty west of Liverpool Street, ever since the curtailment to St. Paul’s. Previously, it used to be fairly well used till Tottenham Court Road. Not sure about the eastern end but the hack has rendered at least the western end quite useless It's a pity TfL frowns on peak-hour-only extensions. From observation the 242 picks up quite a few peak-hour short hops between The City and Liverpool Street Station, however at other times the 8 is perfectly able to cope on its own and the 242 could be cut back to Liverpool Street. Otherwise I can't see it disappearing. It is the only bus around the Clapton Park Estate, and also provides a round-the-corner link between Hackney and most of Kingsland Road as well as some unique links to a major hospital - Homerton houses the Mental Health Unit for the entire Borough of Hackney, and the City of London. |
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Post by snoggle on May 16, 2018 11:06:24 GMT
Another route which I think might disappear at some stage is 242. Nowadays, the buses seem to be almost fully empty west of Liverpool Street, ever since the curtailment to St. Paul’s. Previously, it used to be fairly well used till Tottenham Court Road. Not sure about the eastern end but the hack has rendered at least the western end quite useless That was the point of the cut - to make it useless. It's wilful mismanagement of the network. TfL will find themselves in political hot water if they try to cut the eastern end of the route. You can't ignore the fact that it provides the main link in the Clapton Park Estate and serves Homerton Hospital. I know for a fact the Assembly Member for Hackney keeps an eye on the 242 and is not averse to raising Mayor's Questions if things are not right with that route. |
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Post by rmz19 on May 16, 2018 12:07:26 GMT
Another route which I think might disappear at some stage is 242. Nowadays, the buses seem to be almost fully empty west of Liverpool Street, ever since the curtailment to St. Paul’s. Previously, it used to be fairly well used till Tottenham Court Road. Not sure about the eastern end but the hack has rendered at least the western end quite useless It's a pity TfL frowns on peak-hour-only extensions. From observation the 242 picks up quite a few peak-hour short hops between The City and Liverpool Street Station, however at other times the 8 is perfectly able to cope on its own and the 242 could be cut back to Liverpool Street. Otherwise I can't see it disappearing. It is the only bus around the Clapton Park Estate, and also provides a round-the-corner link between Hackney and most of Kingsland Road as well as some unique links to a major hospital - Homerton houses the Mental Health Unit for the entire Borough of Hackney, and the City of London. Cutting the 242 back to St. Paul's was obviously a ridiculous idea, it was a useful assistance to the 8 between TCR and Liverpool Street. Presumably why the 8 is arguably coping without the 242 is because of the latter's curtailment which led to displaced passengers using alternative methods towards Liverpool Street and beyond, though the 8 is still impacted by passengers being shoehorned into buses in the peaks. |
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Post by sid on May 16, 2018 12:59:33 GMT
Another route which I think might disappear at some stage is 242. Nowadays, the buses seem to be almost fully empty west of Liverpool Street, ever since the curtailment to St. Paul’s. Previously, it used to be fairly well used till Tottenham Court Road. Not sure about the eastern end but the hack has rendered at least the western end quite useless It's a pity TfL frowns on peak-hour-only extensions. From observation the 242 picks up quite a few peak-hour short hops between The City and Liverpool Street Station, however at other times the 8 is perfectly able to cope on its own and the 242 could be cut back to Liverpool Street. Otherwise I can't see it disappearing. It is the only bus around the Clapton Park Estate, and also provides a round-the-corner link between Hackney and most of Kingsland Road as well as some unique links to a major hospital - Homerton houses the Mental Health Unit for the entire Borough of Hackney, and the City of London. There must be numerous routes, or sections of routes, that are justified Mon-Fri peak hours but not at other times particularly in the City of London and this is a prime example. There was a proposal somewhere on here to reroute the 26 via Clapton Park and withdraw the 242 completely. |
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Post by vjaska on May 16, 2018 13:33:03 GMT
Another route which I think might disappear at some stage is 242. Nowadays, the buses seem to be almost fully empty west of Liverpool Street, ever since the curtailment to St. Paul’s. Previously, it used to be fairly well used till Tottenham Court Road. Not sure about the eastern end but the hack has rendered at least the western end quite useless It's a pity TfL frowns on peak-hour-only extensions. From observation the 242 picks up quite a few peak-hour short hops between The City and Liverpool Street Station, however at other times the 8 is perfectly able to cope on its own and the 242 could be cut back to Liverpool Street. Otherwise I can't see it disappearing. It is the only bus around the Clapton Park Estate, and also provides a round-the-corner link between Hackney and most of Kingsland Road as well as some unique links to a major hospital - Homerton houses the Mental Health Unit for the entire Borough of Hackney, and the City of London. I'm not a fan of peak hour extensions myself and much prefer the standardised approach that TfL adopts - I understand why it happens outside of London although even there, I feel there are opportunities, even in a limited fashion, to have some standardisation. The 242 is quite important at the eastern end as you rightly mention so it should exist even if it means cutting to Liverpool Street or maybe even explore a southern extension. Eastern wise, an extension to Walthamstow looks interesting but runs into a mountain of problems - how warranted such a link is, the mess that is Walthamstow is affecting reliability & serving Homerton Hospital being much worse without double running (not ideal as Homerton is regularly congested) |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 12:37:21 GMT
Three routes really aren't justified on Beckenham Road (four if you include the 354) and if cuts need to be made............................................................... There is a little give on that corridor during the peaks, but the 227s are packed. Take away a whole route and there'd be insufficent capacity to meet demand. The 227 is busy, the 358 less so and the 194's are often near empty. |
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Post by vjaska on May 19, 2018 10:47:46 GMT
There is a little give on that corridor during the peaks, but the 227s are packed. Take away a whole route and there'd be insufficent capacity to meet demand. The 227 is busy, the 358 less so and the 194's are often near empty. Both the 227 & 358 are busy along there whilst the 194, although less busy than the other two, isn’t often near empty. |
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Post by DE20106 on May 19, 2018 11:36:55 GMT
The 227 is busy, the 358 less so and the 194's are often near empty. Both the 227 & 358 are busy along there whilst the 194, although less busy than the other two, isn’t often near empty. The weird thing is that of those three routes, the quietest (and least used in terms of usage) is the double deck route  |
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Post by sid on May 19, 2018 11:55:31 GMT
Both the 227 & 358 are busy along there whilst the 194, although less busy than the other two, isn’t often near empty. The weird thing is that of those three routes, the quietest (and least used in terms of usage) is the double deck route Ironically yes, the other two go under the low bridge at Shortlands. The 194 was single decker for years, Leyland National, and it's only really the Croydon end that is busy. |
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Post by DE20106 on May 19, 2018 12:26:10 GMT
The weird thing is that of those three routes, the quietest (and least used in terms of usage) is the double deck route Ironically yes, the other two go under the low bridge at Shortlands. The 194 was single decker for years, Leyland National, and it's only really the Croydon end that is busy. What made them double deck it then? I’ve never seen it busy, and I was the only person on the upper deck the whole journey I was on it. Was it struggling at Croydon with single deckers back in the day? |
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