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Post by 15002 on Feb 3, 2018 18:28:34 GMT
as a semi-regular traveller on the 365, I would suggest that it does indeed need deckers. Your N165/N365 proposal would need the route to go up to Hornchurch then come back on itself to get to Abbs Cross Lane Forgive me I know next to nothing about the 365 (apart from it shares its number with the amount of days in the year  ). Have you ever seen any journeys rammed full on that route?  I certainly have. Especially during peak hours the route gets packed when I’ve observed it from Elm Park Station. |
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Post by ThinLizzy on Feb 3, 2018 18:41:19 GMT
as a semi-regular traveller on the 365, I would suggest that it does indeed need deckers. Your N165/N365 proposal would need the route to go up to Hornchurch then come back on itself to get to Abbs Cross Lane Forgive me I know next to nothing about the 365 (apart from it shares its number with the amount of days in the year ). Have you ever seen any journeys rammed full on that route? I catch it from Romford Station to Elm Park some evenings and on Sundays, and vice-versa as my parents live in Elm Park. Never seen a full standing load but certainly a fully seated load, it even gets quite busy on late Sunday afternoons. The 165 is certainly the quieter cousin of the 365 now days as it goes the long-way round to Romford. Capital Citybus would sometimes stick a Leyland National out on the 365. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 20:29:18 GMT
Forgive me I know next to nothing about the 365 (apart from it shares its number with the amount of days in the year ). Have you ever seen any journeys rammed full on that route? I certainly have. Especially during peak hours the route gets packed when I’ve observed it from Elm Park Station. Don't want to blow my own trumpet, but I will!! Put this idea to two senior bus managers I got talking to on the 248, and they liked the idea. I also suggested that the 365 at all times could go into Hornchurch town centre, then station rd and Suttons Avenue back to Abbs Cross Lane avoiding the doubling back on itself that my N365/N165 would entail, but they spoke of Suttons Avenue residents resistance to buses on the road. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 22:32:24 GMT
Tonight had first hand experience of a route that could be single decker. The 340 leaving Harrow at 20.00 was a single, I stayed on it until Canons Park, never more than seven people on it. I've never used it at peak times, but not huge patronage in evenings.
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Post by VWH1414 on Feb 6, 2018 22:36:01 GMT
Tonight had first hand experience of a route that could be single decker. The 340 leaving Harrow at 20.00 was a single, I stayed on it until Canons Park, never more than seven people on it. I've never used it at peak times, but not huge patronage in evenings. This route can be very busy in peak times, and does therefore needs its DD, it would be a bad idea for this to be SD |
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Post by vjaska on Feb 6, 2018 23:43:08 GMT
Tonight had first hand experience of a route that could be single decker. The 340 leaving Harrow at 20.00 was a single, I stayed on it until Canons Park, never more than seven people on it. I've never used it at peak times, but not huge patronage in evenings. Many double deck routes at this time of the day run with fewer people so this is not a reason to start proposing a route to be converted to single decker (whether the evening service should be converted is an entirely different debate and a view I don't exactly think is right personally). As VWH1414 mentioned who is a local, the 340 is busy during the day which is why it's double deck and has been since it's creation in 1987. |
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Post by rmz19 on Feb 7, 2018 0:15:29 GMT
Tonight had first hand experience of a route that could be single decker. The 340 leaving Harrow at 20.00 was a single, I stayed on it until Canons Park, never more than seven people on it. I've never used it at peak times, but not huge patronage in evenings. Many double deck routes at this time of the day run with fewer people so this is not a reason to start proposing a route to be converted to single decker (whether the evening service should be converted is an entirely different debate and a view I don't exactly think is right personally). As VWH1414 mentioned who is a local, the 340 is busy during the day which is why it's double deck and has been since it's creation in 1987. Precisely. Every Double Deck route in London experiences less patronage outside the peaks though this by no means justifies a route with little patronage at certain times to be Single Deck. That's the reason why a route's frequency is dynamic respective to the time of day/night. There is always scope in modifying frequencies, in a reasonable manner, to match demand. |
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Post by sid on Feb 7, 2018 6:40:56 GMT
Tonight had first hand experience of a route that could be single decker. The 340 leaving Harrow at 20.00 was a single, I stayed on it until Canons Park, never more than seven people on it. I've never used it at peak times, but not huge patronage in evenings. Could perhaps use single deckers from the 288,303,305 in the evening although the route is going to AD when GR closes. Another option would be to extend the 140 to Edgware in the evening in place of the 340. |
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Post by 6HP502C on Feb 7, 2018 9:00:42 GMT
Tonight had first hand experience of a route that could be single decker. The 340 leaving Harrow at 20.00 was a single, I stayed on it until Canons Park, never more than seven people on it. I've never used it at peak times, but not huge patronage in evenings. TfL bases vehicle allocation on capacity requirements at peak times, among other physical and political factors. If buses are that quiet in the evenings then a frequency reduction is a more appropriate solution than single decking the route. |
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Post by sid on Feb 7, 2018 11:20:20 GMT
Tonight had first hand experience of a route that could be single decker. The 340 leaving Harrow at 20.00 was a single, I stayed on it until Canons Park, never more than seven people on it. I've never used it at peak times, but not huge patronage in evenings. TfL bases vehicle allocation on capacity requirements at peak times, among other physical and political factors. If buses are that quiet in the evenings then a frequency reduction is a more appropriate solution than single decking the route. But if you take a route like the 412 which is being reduced to half hourly in the evening and will probably still carry little more than fresh air then what next, hourly? I think single deckers would be the better option where practical, and I realise it isn't always practical, but I think the 412 could be interworked with the 166 in the evening? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 11:45:13 GMT
Tonight had first hand experience of a route that could be single decker. The 340 leaving Harrow at 20.00 was a single, I stayed on it until Canons Park, never more than seven people on it. I've never used it at peak times, but not huge patronage in evenings. TfL bases vehicle allocation on capacity requirements at peak times, among other physical and political factors. If buses are that quiet in the evenings then a frequency reduction is a more appropriate solution than single decking the route. Wasn't suggesting it should be SD but that this happened, and not for the first time. Arriva also did this when they ran the 258, and in a reverse situation the 288 has been an occasional DD, come to think of it, also DD used on H18/19. |
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Post by rmz19 on Feb 7, 2018 12:07:39 GMT
TfL bases vehicle allocation on capacity requirements at peak times, among other physical and political factors. If buses are that quiet in the evenings then a frequency reduction is a more appropriate solution than single decking the route. But if you take a route like the 412 which is being reduced to half hourly in the evening and will probably still carry little more than fresh air then what next, hourly? I think single deckers would be the better option where practical, and I realise it isn't always practical, but I think the 412 could be interworked with the 166 in the evening? The 412 is an exception to the rule when if patronage is still generally low with a half hourly service then a Single Deck conversion is justified, though a x30 min frequency as a bare minimum with Double Decks should be fine and the 412 should see a higher patronage using its buses. |
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Post by kmkcheng on Feb 7, 2018 12:11:44 GMT
TfL bases vehicle allocation on capacity requirements at peak times, among other physical and political factors. If buses are that quiet in the evenings then a frequency reduction is a more appropriate solution than single decking the route. Wasn't suggesting it should be SD but that this happened, and not for the first time. Arriva also did this when they ran the 258, and in a reverse situation the 288 has been an occasional DD, come to think of it, also DD used on H18/19. Arriva did seem to have a habit of putting out a SD when a DD was available as there had been days when a SD appeared on 142/258 when there was a DD on one of their SD routes on the same day. I seem to recall a SD on 340 was rarer than one appearing on 142 or 258 |
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Post by vjaska on Feb 7, 2018 12:21:24 GMT
TfL bases vehicle allocation on capacity requirements at peak times, among other physical and political factors. If buses are that quiet in the evenings then a frequency reduction is a more appropriate solution than single decking the route. Wasn't suggesting it should be SD but that this happened, and not for the first time. Arriva also did this when they ran the 258, and in a reverse situation the 288 has been an occasional DD, come to think of it, also DD used on H18/19. I’m not sure I understand your point as your original post sounded like it was suggesting a single deck conversion - single deckers have indeed gone out many times on the 142, 258 & 340 with deckers likewise on the 288, 303 & 305 but this isn’t the only situation in London where this has happened. The H18/H19 has been allocated a decker for some time now. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 13:00:01 GMT
Wasn't suggesting it should be SD but that this happened, and not for the first time. Arriva also did this when they ran the 258, and in a reverse situation the 288 has been an occasional DD, come to think of it, also DD used on H18/19. I’m not sure I understand your point as your original post sounded like it was suggesting a single deck conversion - single deckers have indeed gone out many times on the 142, 258 & 340 with deckers likewise on the 288, 303 & 305 but this isn’t the only situation in London where this has happened. The H18/H19 has been allocated a decker for some time now. My fault if I wasn't clear, I was suggesting that Arriva may be thinking about SD's on 340, and for evenings anyway it probably wouldn't matter. Peak times of course is a different matter. |
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). Have you ever seen any journeys rammed full on that route? 
